Bass shaker mounting and placement on P1-X

[feraligators]

Hi everyone, was hoping to get some advice on mounting and placing bass shakers on my P1-X.

I have three shakers (2x AuraSound AST-2B-4 and 1x Dayton BST-1) that I want to mount.

After doing some research it seems a good placement would be two shakers underneath the seat in L/R configurations and one under the pedals.

For the pedals, I've 3D printed a mount for the Dayton shaker that can mount directly to the 8040 profile.

For the seat, my plan was to mount the shakers to some plywood which itself would be mounted to the seat (shakers --> plywood --> seat)

My biggest concern is the vibrations and how to isolate them from the P1-X.

I was thinking of using rubber isolators like these in the locations the shakers are mounted to the rig to dampen the effects.

These work fine for the pedal plate but I'm not sure how to add for the shakers for my seat.

Should I place them between the wood and the seat, or should the be placed between the wood and the rails that connect to my rig?

 

[stigs2cousin]

Here´s what quick search found :
( ok, that´s cheating, I knew about the thread )

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/isolation-for-rig-on-wheels-in-apartment-block-inc-tactile-feedback.206140/page-2#posts

and ALL the info is in here:

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/tactile-immersion-general-discussion-hardware-software.137631/page-301#post-3630141

Have fun Carsten

 

[feraligators]

Here´s what quick search found :
( ok, that´s cheating, I knew about the thread )

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/isolation-for-rig-on-wheels-in-apartment-block-inc-tactile-feedback.206140/page-2#posts

and ALL the info is in here:

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/tactile-immersion-general-discussion-hardware-software.137631/page-301#post-3630141

Have fun Carsten

Thanks Carsten that was quite a read

It looks like Andrew's solution of using torqued rubber mounts on the rail seems to be the way to go.

Luckily I don't have to worry about neighbors so I'm not too concerned about vibrations passing through walls or floors.

My main concern is that vibrations from the seats and pedals pass through the frame and muddy the effects.

Is that the main reason people do this?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

After trying different things I ended up with bolt-through neoprene isolators. extremely pleased with the results (first time after many years when I started fully appreciate tactile), have been using them for over a year, so they stood test of time for me, simple and cheap too comparing to other exotic solutions around.
The whole idea (principle) of tactile is to transmit energy to lighter objects in close proximity to the body instead of trying to move big mass whole rig which just results in some buzzing, overheating and clunking of the transducers.
Off the shelf typical rubber isolators work, but way too flexy, creating that "sitting on a water bed" felling, not to mention completely ruin braking consistency.

 

[feraligators]

After trying different things I ended up with bolt-through neoprene isolators. extremely pleased with the results (first time after many years when I started fully appreciate tactile), have been using them for over a year, so they stood test of time for me, simple and cheap too comparing to other exotic solutions around.
The whole idea (principle) of tactile is to transmit energy to lighter objects in close proximity to the body instead of trying to move big mass whole rig which just results in some buzzing, overheating and clunking of the transducers.
Off the shelf typical rubber isolators work, but way too flexy, creating that "sitting on a water bed" felling, not to mention completely ruin braking consistency.

Thanks Andrew yours was the solution I think I'm looking for. Would you say the main purpose for you was to isolate the vibrations from your living area or moreso to improve the tactile feedback?

I also saw the video you posted of the isolators under brake pressure, I'm assuming that bit of flex it's showing doesn't really bother you?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Thanks Andrew yours was the solution I think I'm looking for. Would you say the main purpose for you was to isolate the vibrations from your living area or moreso to improve the tactile feedback?

I also saw the video you posted of the isolators under brake pressure, I'm assuming that bit of flex it's showing doesn't really bother you?

Once you isolate the rest of the rig, transmission to living area is minimized too. I still have rig on these anti-vibration pads, not sure if I absolutely need them though.
The movement was recorded when I stood on brake pedal, there always will be some (even your seat flexes when this happens), just make sure that your torque down the bolt that it doesn't flop around under load, the more your torque it down, the more rigid the whole thing becomes, it's a balance between isolation and rigidity.

 

[feraligators]

Once you isolate the rest of the rig, transmission to living area is minimized too. I still have rig on these anti-vibration pads, not sure if I absolutely need them though.
The movement was recorded when I stood on brake pedal, there always will be some (even your seat flexes when this happens), just make sure that your torque down the bolt that it doesn't flop around under load, the more your torque it down, the more rigid the whole thing becomes, it's a balance between isolation and rigidity.

A bit of context, I live in a detached house so I don't have neighbors or anything to worry about if the vibrations pass through the floor.

Would you say it's still worth isolating the seat and pedals? I'm trying to understand if people are doing this because it improves the tactile feedback or if they're just doing this to prevent noise complaints.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

To improve feedback, transducers do not produce enough energy to effectively vibrate the whole rig, I thought I've already answered that in one of the previous posts.

 

[feraligators]

To improve feedback, transducers do not produce enough energy to effectively vibrate the whole rig, I thought I've already answered that in one of the previous posts.

Great thank you, that makes sense.

Is there a particular reason you put the neoprene isolators where the brackets attach to the rails (bottom) versus putting them where the bracket attaches to the seat (sides)?

Was wondering if there was any difference in the amount of deflection you get between those mounting options.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Vertical resistance to deflection is higher than lateral in these types of isolators.
Plus with vertical mounts you can sandwich in some wooden board with mounted transducers instead of drilling the seat.

 

[feraligators]

Vertical resistance to deflection is higher than lateral in these types of isolators.
Plus with vertical mounts you can sandwich in some wooden board with mounted transducers instead of drilling the seat.

Makes sense, thank you I appreciate all of your help.

 

[Novopaine]

I have three shakers (2x AuraSound AST-2B-4 and 1x Dayton BST-1) that I want to mount.

After doing some research it seems a good placement would be two shakers underneath the seat in L/R configurations and one under the pedals.

... (shakers --> plywood --> seat)

Unless you are planning to mount the shakers to the seat where they are isolated from each other, you won't be able to distinguish Left vs Right. I had two under the seat rails on one piece of plywood running in Mono since L&R was pointless. I don't have them installed at the moment as my rig was re-located to a room in my house where vibration is a problem, and my attached neighbor was freaking out.

I added the rubber isolators between the seat bracket and my seat slider, but it's not enough. I might try the neoprene option Andrew mentioned, if I can find them. I also have some washing machine isolators under the feat of the rig, but they are quite firm (solid might be a better word) and they're transferring a way too much sound to the floor. I really need my final isolation solution to be as close to 100% effective as possible.

The pedal tray has a lot of mass and it will absorb a lot of the vibration. You might be happier with a solution that mounts smaller transducers directly to back of each pedal.

I'm currently testing out the EX32EP2-4 and EX30HESF2-4 (Dayton Audio) using a custom 3D printed mounting solution I came up with for my pedals. I have the EX32EP2-4 on the brake pedal, and I'm quite pleased so far. I don't have to throw much power at it to get the feeling in the pedal I'm after. I currently have a EX30HESF2-4 on the Gas pedal, and it seems a bit weaker on the lower frequencies compared to the EX32EP2-4. More testing is needed. Time is my challenge right now.

 

[feraligators]

Unless you are planning to mount the shakers to the seat where they are isolated from each other, you won't be able to distinguish Left vs Right. I had two under the seat rails on one piece of plywood running in Mono since L&R was pointless. I don't have them installed at the moment as my rig was re-located to a room in my house where vibration is a problem, and my attached neighbor was freaking out.

I added the rubber isolators between the seat bracket and my seat slider, but it's not enough. I might try the neoprene option Andrew mentioned, if I can find them. I also have some washing machine isolators under the feat of the rig, but they are quite firm (solid might be a better word) and they're transferring a way too much sound to the floor. I really need my final isolation solution to be as close to 100% effective as possible.

The pedal tray has a lot of mass and it will absorb a lot of the vibration. You might be happier with a solution that mounts smaller transducers directly to back of each pedal.

I'm currently testing out the EX32EP2-4 and EX30HESF2-4 (Dayton Audio) using a custom 3D printed mounting solution I came up with for my pedals. I have the EX32EP2-4 on the brake pedal, and I'm quite pleased so far. I don't have to throw much power at it to get the feeling in the pedal I'm after. I currently have a EX30HESF2-4 on the Gas pedal, and it seems a bit weaker on the lower frequencies compared to the EX32EP2-4. More testing is needed. Time is my challenge right now.

Thanks, yeah I planned on only having two shakers with 1 under the seat and 1 on the pedal plate but ended up with 3 by accident. Thought 2 under the seat made the most sense.

The neoprene mounts are coming early next week so I can update you on how they work.

 

[MrGyyro]

here's a suggestion, https://www.slip-angle.com/

 

[Deleted member 197115]

here's a suggestion, https://www.slip-angle.com/

LOL. Seems like another vendor with no idea on how vibration transmission works.
Good luck shaking 80/20 rig with driver in with 4 weakly Dayton units.

 

[MrGyyro]

LOL. Seems like another vendor with no idea on how vibration transmission works.
Good luck shaking 80/20 rig with driver in with 4 weakly Dayton units.

The OP was mentioning isolation of vibration from the rig to the living space. but beside that look up the review of the product mentioned.

 

[blekenbleu]

look up the review

Indeed, Mike is a credible reviewer.,
and transducers attached outside chassis extrusions have more leverage.
I would try:

• soft foam rubber cylinders (or rolled up sheets) inserted in springs for damping
• rear springs farther back for better front-to-rear weight distribution.

 

[feraligators]

@Andrew_WOT Just following up on you neoprene spacer solution. I've got all the materials now and was wonder how you're using the washers.

Is this the correct order of how the the seat is attached to the rail:

Bolt and washer --> seat slider rail --> neoprene spacer --> bucket seat bracket --> washer and lock nut

If that's confusing, essentially what I'm asking is are the washers touching the neoprene or are they on the other sides of each of the seat rails and seat brackets?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I have them in direct contact with neoprene (both side) and between bolt and seat slider.
I use flange nuts so washer is not necessary there, no harm either.

bolt
washer
seat slider rail
washer
neoprene spacer
washer
bucket seat bracket
washer (optional if flange nut)
lock nut

 

[Mikael Hammar]

I am a strong believer in always having the shakers as close as possible to the points of contact you have to the rig. For my bucket seat I mounted them on the seat brackets. It took a bit of a workaround on the p1x to work, moving the profile you place the shifter / mouse mat on 45mm further out away from you out to the side, but it was SO worth it. Edit: Oh and for the first time I can really feel Left/Right separation in the seat, so rumble strips are more fun than ever