Battle Of the Manufacturers: Ferrari VS Renault VS Honda

[Darth]

It's clear that the engine is back to being the king in F1 and Mercedes has benefited the most by
the change in regulations last year. In the mean the rest of the manufacturers are all playing
catch up.
Ferrari has clearly improved their engine during the winter break and with two major
upgrades coming in season, they seem to be the best of the rest.
Renault on the other hand, seem to have been left behind as they have admitted. Still, one should expect them to fight.
Last but not least, Mclaren, who have adopted a similar philosophy to Mercedes, have not
yet been able to show the true power of their engine. Running in safe mode meant that they
would protect the engine and its components from failure but would produce much less bhp ( at least 80).
Which of the three seemingly weaker engines do you think has the most potential?

 

[vee10]

I would of thought it is pretty obvious that Ferrari are the only ones who are anywhere near.

Renault should sort it out to a certain extent after Mario Illien has conducted his review they may even get back to where they were last year

I doubt honda will gain much over the year neither Ferrari or Renault did in season last year.

It's become a engine formula which is a shame. In fact if that first race was anything to go by it's become a Mercedes package formula.

I can see why Red Bull are pissed at Renault but I dont think having a go in public does anyone any favours. Also I can see why Mercedes performance not being pegged back would annoy them too, any time RB had a advantage the FIA changed the rules to reign them back in.

I dread to think how much money Ferrari have thrown at the problem and they are still behind.

 

[ENDR]

It's become a engine formula which is a shame.

Until 2013 engine development was completely frozen (with the exception of Renault, so that Red Bull wouldn't be disadvantaged...), so the teams were throwing bags of money at their aero departments and people used to whine that F1 was an "aero formula", developing technologies not even remotely connected to every day cars. The demands were to limit aero downforce, shift the focus more to mechanical grip and increase engine power.
Now that we have all of that, we get complaints like that... Come on, make up your mind!
The real shame isn't in the fact, that F1 has become an "engine formula", but that engine development is so restricted, so that neither of the engine constructors can show what they're fully capable of. I, for one, would like to see Ferrari using a hybrid V12 (like in the LaFerrari) against McLaren with their P1-esque hybrid turbo V6 and Mercedes with some kind of a twin turbo V8 (like in the AMG GT).

 

[Tony Holder]

I just hope that Honda overtake Renault this season.

 

[vee10]

Until 2013 engine development was completely frozen (with the exception of Renault, so that Red Bull wouldn't be disadvantaged...), so the teams were throwing bags of money at their aero departments and people used to whine that F1 was an "aero formula", developing technologies not even remotely connected to every day cars. The demands were to limit aero downforce, shift the focus more to mechanical grip and increase engine power.
Now that we have all of that, we get complaints like that... Come on, make up your mind!
The real shame isn't in the fact, that F1 has become an "engine formula", but that engine development is so restricted, so that neither of the engine constructors can show what they're fully capable of. I, for one, would like to see Ferrari using a hybrid V12 (like in the LaFerrari) against McLaren with their P1-esque hybrid turbo V6 and Mercedes with some kind of a twin turbo V8 (like in the AMG GT).

You have to admit the racing was a lot closer in V8 & V10 era than the Mercedes show we have now. None of anything that the new regs have brought have made the racing better they have made it worse.

Although I love the tech of F1 engines, a free reign on engine development is not what the sport needs. The balance between what the manufacturers want and what the fans want is lost at the moment.

Without the fans there is no F1, and we already getting into that situation. For the first time in 30 years of F1 I am bored already. I have not even watched yesterdays race all the way through. The last few seasons of the V8's were fantastic compared to this dross.

 

[ENDR]

You have to admit the racing was a lot closer in V8 & V10 era than the Mercedes show we have now.

Was it now...
I remember something a bit different. The last couple of years were mostly about one car (usually blue) pulling off by a couple of seconds in just 2-3 laps and the rest trying to catch up. Also, there wouldn't be much action in the middle of the pack without the help of DRS.
The Bridgestone years were a bit different, just because the tires would last longer, so the drivers could go flat out for most of the race. But still, the insane aero and the turbulence it created made overtaking quite rare.
The 90-something% reliability made things even worse, because it mean that drama and DNFs were unlikely.

But now - sure, two cars are in the league of their own, but at least those two are on a similar level, so they can produce some spectacular fights. And there's stuff going on behind them as well. Cars don't finish, cars spin and slide, cars reach absurd top speeds, compared to the V8 era.
Yesterday's race was pretty average, but last year there were even worse ones (Russia...), and still no one's saying that the 2014 season was boring.

 

[vee10]

But the stats backup the theory that although Vettel won the last four championships they were a lot closer than the current Mercedes domination in which Rosberg is no real match for Hamilton. Look at when the drivers won the championship versus the runner up. Majority went to the last race and always against a car from another team. That suggests to me that it was more competitive. I enjoyed it more.

2006 Fernando Alonso Race 18 of 18 Renault vs Schumacher Ferrari
2007 Kimi Räikkönen Race 17 of 17 Ferrari vs Hamilton Mclaren
2008 Lewis Hamilton Race 18 of 18 Mclaren vs Massi Ferrari
2009 Jenson Button Race 16 of 17 Brawn vs Vettel Red Bull
2010 Sebastian Vettel Race 19 of 19 RB vs Alonso Ferrari
2011 Sebastian Vettel Race 15 of 19 vs Button Mclaren
2012 Sebastian Vettel Race 20 of 20 vs Alonso Ferrari
2013 Sebastian Vettel Race 16 of 19 vs Alonso Ferrari

 

[ENDR]

Pointwise they were more of a match, true, but it just meant that there was more of a rotation between race winners. It didn't mean there was more on-track fighting for the lead. The winners usually (and Vettel is a crown example) lead the races from the beginning.
Last season however Rosberg had the upper hand in qualifying, so Hamilton usually had to work hard to win.

 

[vee10]

I can see were the FIA etc were trying to go with these regs and also some of the teams really pushed for it including Renault. But if F1 wants competitive racing with sponsors and fans wanting to get involved then so far it has failed miserably.

I love F1 engines and have many books about the them especially Renault's history but from a racing point of view the Mercedes are too far ahead. We have another season on top of 2014 of total and utter domination mainly through the engine being better. The people I spoke to today regarding the current state of affairs have had enough already and will not be bothering with the next race.

I also believe the cars are much harder to follow this year which is another nail in the coffin.

The world in which F1 finds itself is totally different to even a few years ago. People have different and many ways to be entertained, F1 in its current format has no resonance with many people. The rules are to complex all these token's and engine limit's it mean nothing to most people. The most important thing even for a big engine fan like me is that the racing is decent.