hi all first post here, i just finished building my sim lab p1 black and was wondering whats the best way to fix it to my p1. is there a bracket or a 3d print design i can use as just got a 3d printer for crimbo.
Not to be too blunt Rodney, but the Gamer 2 Beside a Mini LFE is Easily 2-3 times more tactile NO questions asked. We've discussed this, I mounted those Mini LFE's every which way from Sunday and despite there being 2 of them, they couldn't even remotely touch what a Single Gamer 2 could do.
The Gamer 2 Frame IS THE magic sauce.
If it's the same unit as a thumper then surely it's not worth £135 extra and the hassle of getting the cables?@sim cave uk
Metal component to clamp onto is the best option...
I think some have even bolted a rachet/socket to the metal frame and then clamped the BK onto that.
A cheap alternative worth trying is some of the rubber isolators on ebay that have their own M6 / M8 threads.
@Furnace Inferno
Recommend to anyone to put the extra into purchasing a
1x Buttkicker Advance
1x Inuke DSP 1000
This amp as stereo will be ready to power a second unit in future.
Search the forums here, lots of posts on these products and several members owning this combination.
The BK Advance is the same unit used in the Pearl Throne and this will deliver much better quality of tactile below 35Hz that the Mini & Gamer series cant deliver so well.
The Gamer unit using the installed bracket, seems to increase the felt output, compared to the Mini LFE or Mini Concert models. While I have not seen an in-depth study of this by anyone, yet several confirm such is the case. It appears the arm/bracket acts as a mechanical lever to increase the felt sensation the unit generates.
One point I would say is that from an immersion perspective, a units low-frequency performance is a more important contributing factor than wattage ratings or power output. While the entry level units are not bad, people shouldn't need excessive wattage with these smaller units if they install them to the seat/pedal platform/sections. They will work more efficiently, maintaining the tactile energy more reducing any escaping/wasted energy, if these sections are isolated from the main frame with common neoprene rubber isolators as well.
It seems none of the 8020 cockpit builders put much thought into tactile considerations, especially multichannel configurations. See on the forums a recent d.i.y build by @Ceolmor for some possible inspiration.
Here
If it's the same unit as a thumper then surely it's not worth £135 extra and the hassle of getting the cables?
Bare in mind the dsp possibilities don't interest me as I'm more than happy just setting it up in Simvibe and the vibrations I'm currently getting. I just need it to vibrate when I expect it to which is why I'll get one more for the pedals for when the front end needs it, 4 in chassis mode would be wasted on me, just too much going on at that point.
I just want plug and play, rumbles are rumbles to my butt and I've not thought they were lacking particularly, what's more noticeable is the lack in my feet, the V3 vibration motors are completely useless when everything else is kicking off can't feel them at all.Choice is of course yours...
The question is, do you want an improved performance from a better amp and with beneficial control features also able to power 2 units? A choice that several with high end rigs already use.
Good progress has been made with creating/testing effects in SSW and with immersion bettering Simvibe's own effects.
These are releasing soon as under final tweaking. Also a configured iNuke DSP profile that according to several members testing, is working well on the higher end Buttkicker models and operating beyond using a standard amp. The user simply loads it and no hassle, no experience/understanding needed.
A lot of time and effort has been put into researching and testing these, pushing the boundaries of immersion but it's what some of us like to do.
I just want plug and play, rumbles are rumbles to my butt and I've not thought they were lacking particularly, what's more noticeable is the lack in my feet, the V3 vibration motors are completely useless when everything else is kicking off can't feel them at all.
The only thing that really interests me is the fact I could use one amp instead of two, how does clipping work on it, the gamer2 is limited to 90watts and the throne to 200w, the gamer2 amp seems to clip quite early but I don't suffer knocking noise when below that but I assume with more I would?
What cables are needed for inuke?
I still think it makes more sense to get the throne if you have a way to mount it and even if you don't drilling 4 holes into your seat vs. 1 for a cylinder is preferable plus to get inuke later would only cost £30 and I'd have the pearl amp for that slight extra.
@sim cave uk what seat did you get? I think R-seats buttkicker mount which attaches to their sidemounts could do the trick if you have the right width frame (430mm I think) but it's over £100 so not very cost effective!
My thinking is always not to going looking for issues if you don't have any, otherwise you end up spending more time and money on something you wouldn't otherwise of cared about, ignorance is bliss as they say and I've already spent over £3k because of VR making it obvious I'm missing things!!The advice is given only as that, its for you to determine what best suits yourself.
Tactile often falls into two camps of people.
Those who may seek the best performance/options for the money they wish to spend. Appreciating options that give better control and upgradability in future to grow or expand for the future.
The other is those, that seek simple off the shelf solutions that may indeed be easier to install and are not concerned about getting the very best performance or control. They are happy to settle with what a standard package offers.
There is a lot of stuff about tactile or the iNuke DSP amplifiers on these forums if your'e interested in searching and reading. One Example Here
If not the Pearl Throne is worth the extra over a Gamer for an improved low-end frequency immersion. R-Seat Cockpits used to sell/install these.
Recommend you give SSW a try when we release the effects that have been worked on for the past 6 months. It will greatly improve the immersion it offers and is worth comparing to Simvibe as an alternative.
Perhaps but those were simpler and cheaper times plus CRTs still had better black levels and uniformity than LCDs and the motion resolution without motion processing is what 200-350 lines which again is less .
Anyway getting a bit off-topic with my hate of LCD. I think I will get the cheaper Thumper first then motion and decide if the vibrations are lacking, I just don't want too much drowning out other feedback.
So your experience of this while seeing an advantage to the standard Mini casing (via arm extension and not being questioned) is not fully representative to a typical Gamer unit running at 2ohms (Big difference regards wattage). Also, if the Gamer model uses the same internals as the Mini Concert (also 2ohm) those units are meant to be tuned for increased performance at @40Hz (musical instruments). Do factor this in for those seeking to buy a Gamer model.
loI have a standard gamer 2 on the stock amp fyi on top of the modded units.
I aint missing anything . Mini LFE's in standard frames sucked donkey ballz, and the gamer 2 itself and the frames just flat out work. 2 days worth of trying different mounting position and screwing around proved that.... Of coarse there's mechanics at play here. Never said there wasn't.
And of corse a Full Size LFE can touch Frequencies the smaller units cant, Main problem is there's a very small percentage of racers willing to spend Similar if not More on their Tactile setup than their wheel/pedal setups. So its all relative, the guys who want to geek out on tactile will do so with aid from your posts.
Isn't the throne thumper the same unit as the Adavance with just different mounting and all in one package?Wish you well
I think what your missing in this discussion and also in refernce to @Moxley6969.
My experience or advice would lead me to state that, if seeking the best tactile enjoyment and immersion. It is important to take into account the nature of different frequencies. How we can then apply specific Hz based on how they uniquely feel. Using these to represent specific roles/purposes in creating the various effects.
Tactile is not all about watts or the sheer output strength. It's more about having hardware that can deliver the widest range of Hz from the lowest of 10Hz or under to over 90Hz and if desired up to around 130Hz. Covering all these frequencies and being able to produce them with a suitable level of energy and detail.
The BK Advance is possibly, in general, the best all-around unit for this.
The only way to improve such is to have "Dual Role" using two units to cover all the frequencies to provide both the very rich low-end bass and greater mid/high range detailing.
Different models have variations in their operating characteristics and performances can vary quite a lot. Having some experience or understanding of this allows us to learn, adapt how to best tune a tactile unit to then output (via PEQ/DEQ etc found on the iNuke DSP).
An example of different characteristics, from my own testing with creating SSW effects.
Is that I can create an effect that may feel superb on the largest Buttkicker LFE & Advance with it using really low frequencies. It delivers such wonderfully, feels superb for the desired effect (Lateral G). A vibration that needs this level of frequency. Why, well as other frequencies just won't feel the same or as accurate. They don't present the effects desired gutsy, weighty, yet controlled vibration offering something that relates to a real sensation.
Yet when testing on a $549 Clark TST model it will barely do anything.
Simply because this model cannot output those frequencies with sufficient power. Yet it can deliver much richer detailing in engines and in particular above 60Hz. So indeed tactile units can be used for specific roles and purposes and this is evident in peoples rigs that have taken the advice and went that route.
When you have spent as much time with tactile these are things that become apparent.
People that will use only models like the Gamer/Mini or the vast range of $30-$100 type products are not going to be able to get the full dynamic range from below 30Hz or indeed the subharmonic based frequencies below 20Hz. It is these that can add a difference to how good the tactile sensation is.
This is not to say people cannot enjoy tactile on budget models, but until a user feels for themselves and compares then they will not really grasp why I try to encourage people to seek better hardware.
I don't care what specs list, prefer real-world testing and operation as what I base things on.
We all have perhaps different perspectives and levels in what we may find sufficient.