read more: FFB Tweaks

I've worked with x4fab to add a new feature to the Custom Shaders Patch (as of 0.1.51) and the description is fairly brief so I thought it's worth going into a bit more detail about what this does.

7hNkrdT.png


Gyro Implementation

[ ] Active check to enable
Strength 25% adjust effect strength
AC has an "Experimental Gyro" FFB effect whose purpose was adding gyroscopic effects to the steering. It never lost the experimental tag and all it's generally recommended for is damping down oscillations on direct drive wheels.
This is that, developed slightly further based on my understanding of the nature of gyroscopic forces. I have a pretty solid case for making this change, and I believe this force exists in actual cars, and AC's original experimental gyro does not.

The developed version still suits the purpose of damping oscillations, but more importantly it decouples the body from the front wheels - so if the front wheels are pointing in a direction and the body moves around them, no gyroscopic precession happens, and no force is generated. Concretely, what we're talking about here is oversteer - on the original experimental gyro, the force acts counter to self-alignment during oversteer. With this new implementation, self-alignment is allowed to occur freely, or, if the oversteer is so quick that the wheels can't self-align, it'll actually push in the direction of alignment.

25% is simply equivalent to the original force multiplier used on experimental gyro when merging it with other FFB forces. Ultimately, the same as the other amplification ffb effects like road and slip effect, the slider is available to magnify it if your hardware's limitations are obscuring the effect.
As of CSP 0.1.53 the strength slider is outdated. A calculation using the suspension geometry now provides the right precession-based force for each car.
The description is a little bit misleading; this replaces "Experimental Gyro" so disabling it is superfluous, if this is Active, experimental gyro is not. Still, it won't hurt to disable experimental gyro and be certain it's off.

Now that I've said what the intent is, I will also note the following: this changes FFB in pretty much every dynamic situation. It's not just an improvement for drift cars or for vintage cars that oversteer constantly; any time the car moves around on the tires it feels slightly different from before. To me, it's a positive change, it's clearer what the car is doing, and I have heard similarly positive comments from testers. Nonetheless, I am not omniscient, I have not driven all these cars in real life, it's up to you to decide whether it improves your game or gives you better sim feeling the rubber or what. Modifying games to improve the FFB is a fine tradition starting with some extremely thorough efforts in rfactor1, and this is no different (maybe a bit easier to install).

I will note that it slightly increases max forces when cornering so if you have stuff set up to barely clip, you'll need an adjustment downward in global ffb mult.

Range Compression

Range compression 100% - 100% is the "default off" of this effect
[ ] Range compression assist - check to convert cars' "steer assist" into range compression.

New FFB Tweak available as of 0.1.53. The name comes from the audio world, where dynamic range compression means bringing up the quiet sounds while leaving loud sounds at their original volume. This is a much more second derivative friendly version of the Gamma effect.

The percentage is straightforward: Set it to how much you want to multiply small forces. Or adjust it in sync with your overall gain if you want to maintain the level of small forces and change large forces. For example, 200% compression + 50% gain = original 100% on small forces, larger forces decrease. If you're curious, the curve at the point of maximum force is simply the inverse, 200% compression will cause large forces 50% of the original delta in force. But in combination with 50% gain, you're moving the original maximum force downward and the ceiling before the game clips is much higher.

Think of this like power steering: you only want it to assist the heavy forces and give you maximum feel of the light forces.

This is very much an "adjust to taste" thing, it operates smoothly enough that you're safe running it upward of 300%, and I have seen IRL data indicating that manufacturers effectively go as high as 600% in power steering systems, when they want to bring 20+N forces down to a comfortable 2-3N.

Steer assist is a built in per-car feature of AC that applies a gamma function to that car's FFB. If you check Range compression assist, then FFB Tweaks will calculate an appropriate range compression adjustment, and disable steer assist. This should give you a far more normal FFB feeling (no weird bumps around center) while retaining the original goal of giving high downforce cars enough low-speed FFB to be drivable.
 
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Nah, developing the other suspension extension gave me the understanding of how CSP works so I could implement it, but it stands separately as a thing I felt was missing in general just about since gyro got added.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

Finally I will note that it slightly increases max forces when cornering so if you have stuff set up to barely clip, you'll need an adjustment downward in global ffb mult.
I did notice that, thought something is off. Thanks for confirming and thank you for that great feature. :thumbsup:
 
Sound really awesome!

Since you have some insight I have a question for you:
I've read that for the Gyro effect to become active at all, you need to set the minimum damper level to more than 0%.
I get that you need the normal damper ffb channel to be active (100% for me) but why the minimum damper level?

Question therefore: Do we need to set the minimum damper level to +0% for this new csp gyro stuff?
 
I tried the new FFB extension out yesterday, 15% feels really very good on my SimuCube 2. I does bring a bit better feeling for how the car is behaving to AC.
 
Sound really awesome!

Since you have some insight I have a question for you:
I've read that for the Gyro effect to become active at all, you need to set the minimum damper level to more than 0%.
I get that you need the normal damper ffb channel to be active (100% for me) but why the minimum damper level?

Question therefore: Do we need to set the minimum damper level to +0% for this new csp gyro stuff?
That I know of, damper level is only used for when you're sitting still and try to turn the wheel. Minimum damper above 0% just adds constant damping all the time, unrelated to anything physics.

The new version definitely does not need it set to any particular value and I'm pretty sure the old experimental gyro is not affected by it either.
 
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That I know of, damper level is only used for when you're sitting still and try to turn the wheel. Minimum damper above 0% just adds constant damping all the time, unrelated to anything physics.
Thanks you so much for clarifying! I always wondered why you'd need constant damping for the Gyro to become active..
Putting it to 0% and gonna test your new thingy soon!
 
So I set this up last night but didn't get a chance to try it out until just now. Wow! Running FFB Clip with this new feature active and just did a lap of Nordschliefe in the Porsche 911 GT America and it's very obvious, in a ****ing good way! I can fee when the car is going to break loose so much better now. Can't wait to try it out some more on other cars tonight.
 
@Stereo
Hello
First thanks for the great works
I have a question
For wheel like Thrustmaster - Fanatec what is the best value
For my DD Simucube 1 i have this setting
What about additional postprocessing and what is the function
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I have used FFClip for a long time but I no longer use it.
Only the Lut file
Will you develop more functions to replace the FFB and management directly by the Shader Light Patch

Thank you for answeer
Best regards
Homed
 

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I try to avoid going too black and white on "AC is wrong, this is right"
Fair enough...
Concretely, what we're talking about here is oversteer - on the original experimental gyro, the force acts counter to self-alignment during oversteer. With this new implementation, self-alignment is allowed to occur freely, or, if the oversteer is so quick that the wheels can't self-align, it'll actually push in the direction of alignment.
...but this makes it sound pretty darn binary that the vanilla AC effect is just plain wrong.

Anyway, I really like the sound of this. It's the first thing I've seen that actually makes me want to try the CSP. (I seem to recall that you don't have to use CM to get CSP working)
 
I've worked with x4fab to add a new feature to the Custom Shaders Patch (as of 0.1.51) and the description is fairly brief so I thought it's worth going into a bit more detail about what this does.

7hNkrdT.png


AC has an "Experimental Gyro" FFB effect whose purpose was adding gyroscopic effects to the steering. It never lost the experimental tag and all it's generally recommended for is damping down oscillations on direct drive wheels.
This is that, developed slightly further based on my understanding of the nature of gyroscopic forces. I try to avoid going too black and white on "AC is wrong, this is right", so I'll just add that nothing is perfect, but I think I have a pretty solid case for making this change, and I believe this force exists in actual cars.

The developed version still suits the purpose of damping oscillations, but more importantly it decouples the body from the front wheels - so if the front wheels are pointing in a direction and the body moves around them, no gyroscopic precession happens, and no force is generated. Concretely, what we're talking about here is oversteer - on the original experimental gyro, the force acts counter to self-alignment during oversteer. With this new implementation, self-alignment is allowed to occur freely, or, if the oversteer is so quick that the wheels can't self-align, it'll actually push in the direction of alignment.

25% is simply equivalent to the original force multiplier used on experimental gyro when merging it with other FFB forces. At the time of writing this code I'm not clear enough on the origin of this number to get rid of it, but my educated guess would be it's the top end of what you want to try. Ultimately, the same as the other amplification ffb effects like road and slip effect, the slider is available to magnify it if your hardware's limitations are obscuring the effect. I expect full realism on a Direct drive is in the ballpark of 10% and I'll continue to try to calculate more accurately what the force should be, but I need a clear understanding of the multipliers affecting all ffb sources to be able to translate that into a specific correct value.
The description is a little bit misleading; this replaces "Experimental Gyro" so disabling it is superfluous, if this is Active, experimental gyro is not. Still, it won't hurt to disable experimental gyro and be certain it's off.

Now that I've said what the intent is, I will also note the following: this changes FFB in pretty much every dynamic situation. It's not just an improvement for drift cars or for vintage cars that oversteer constantly; any time the car moves around on the tires it feels slightly different from before. To me, it's a positive change, it's clearer what the car is doing, and I have heard similarly positive comments from testers. Nonetheless, I am not omniscient, I have not driven all these cars in real life, it's up to you to decide whether it improves your game or gives you better sim feeling the rubber or what. Modifying games to improve the FFB is a fine tradition starting with some extremely thorough efforts in rfactor1, and this is no different (maybe a bit easier to install).

Finally I will note that it slightly increases max forces when cornering so if you have stuff set up to barely clip, you'll need an adjustment downward in global ffb mult.
Very nice! Thank you!

Your icon is so beautiful I hope someone makes that mod?

Is it possible to increase the signal from the physics for more vertical FFB? My favorite cars in AC and rF2 in general have more FFB here. This is what gives sense of speed, let's you know what is going on with traction sooner.
With a car like the F40 and it's tight suspension you should feel a piece of gavel through the wheel.
A year ago I thought AC's physics were just too vague but with apps like yours and Pro Tyre's luts I'm convinced the physics are quite detailed but just not getting to my wheel.
 
That one's just a dev function to check if the feature is hooking into the game correctly, it does roughly the same thing as the regular gamma control in FFB.

No particular plans to do more, unless there's a specific need that can't be accomplished via .lut, min force etc.

Should FFB post-processing be turned off in Assetto Corsa FFB menu in that case?
 
  • Deleted member 197115

Very nice! Thank you!

Your icon is so beautiful I hope someone makes that mod?

Is it possible to increase the signal from the physics for more vertical FFB? My favorite cars in AC and rF2 in general have more FFB here. This is what gives sense of speed, let's you know what is going on with traction sooner.
With a car like the F40 and it's tight suspension you should feel a piece of gavel through the wheel.
A year ago I thought AC's physics were just too vague but with apps like yours and Pro Tyre's luts I'm convinced the physics are quite detailed but just not getting to my wheel.
Road Effects slider was designed just for that. Or just get DD wheel and forget about all these enhancers.
 
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