NASCAR 21: Ignition | Release and Pre-Order Dates Announced

NASCAR Heat 5 was released in 2020 using Unity.
NASCAR 21 is planned for release in 2021 using Unreal.

That's quite a short development period. Nice if they can release a stable product.

I didn't see any real road buildup. Some tire marks, but no groove.

theguy69 said:

I can't think of a single sim which has a good single player career mode. I can only think of Acc and gtr2 and even there it's just passable

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GT Legends
(and arguably PC2)

Gevatter said:

GT Legends
(and arguably PC2)

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Sure but I mean gt legends and gtr2 are old and PC2 had it's issues. The point stands, simcades usually have better sp

In all seriousness.....does it have VR?

Austin Ogonoski said:

No damage during accidents. Train track AI. Yawn.

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This is generally a condition of the licence rather than any lack of desire or inability to do damage modeling.

It's no coincidence that the only sims that do do proper damage modeling (Wreckfest and BeamNG) don't use licensed cars.

Funny how some people can judge a game after 1 minute short of reveal trailer.

SimRacing community always at its best when it comes to toxic behaviours.

Austin Ogonoski said:

No damage during accidents. Train track AI. Yawn.

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For me personally AI and offline play isn't a thing so I would have never spotted this in the trailer. Sharp analysis I must say Austin.

Now the announcement is out it's time to see some actual gameplay footage soon.

Hmm, well it's a reveal trailer and it looks promising, but there are some concerns about this game when you piece together what has been announced and what hasn't.

1) Multiplayer

It was reported by another site that there would be no private lobbies, now since removed but we don't know if that is protecting commercial interests of whether it was factually incorrect. What has been announced as a multiplayer component is

"40-player online races will be back, with a playlist party matchmaking system. There will be two different playlists to hop into where racers will be able to vote for the next track to race in the playlist.

The “Shake and Bake” multiplayer hopper features intermediate and superspeedway tracks. The “Bump and Run” hopper will take lobbies to short tracks and road courses"

If that's the level of player agency for online then it's already a no buy from me. You would have thought that even in the slim pickings of announced features co-op multiplayer would be mentioned. It is crucial in the online component of the F1 games, co-op championships have been in place for a decade and allows friends to launch a lobby, add AI and actually have some fun under rules and levels of simulation they desire. Without it am I actually being asked to find a server of 40 random players, assume they are all similar skill based with an attitude to race properly, and get a great race from there? Everyone knows that isn't going to be a good experience. And how are leagues going to run without private lobbies?

The concern is that lobbies launched from the game with ease has often been requested in rF2, and ignored. So my instinct says no private lobbies could well be correct, which will be a car crash for the online component of this game (maybe a developer can hop on and clear this up?)

2) AI

As rightly pointed out by Austin it's a bit underwhelming, but we've yet to see more. The concern is on the product page is appoints Studio397 to physics and AI, that would be the company who haven't improved AI in their own game for years and years - where is their skill base to tackle the nuances of oval racing?. 397's official cars and content will regularly fail to make a single corner in a race, and their representation of oval racing is a genuine travesty. Nothing thus far is suggesting it's leaps and bounds above the rF2 baseline, which is too often teetering on broken.

3) All the missing basics

Damage model - the physics looks good, but the damage underwhelming. Will we have appropriate impacts of driving. Will we have mechanical failures.

Cautions and Safety Car - not a single shot of cars under a caution. No indication of how the AI will deal with a wreck. Not a single shot of a safety car. Not saying they are not in game, but an odd omission for nascar reveal for sure.

Pit Stops - not a single shot of cars pitting. Not a single shot of a pit stop. Not a single pit crew member in pit lane while the race is running. Not a single shot of pit work during a race. Are there even working pitstops, does that rF2 red box and no animations await, or are we in press A to proceed territory?

I'd really like this nascar 21 to be good, in fairness the stock cars 397 released are an absolute treat to drive, but I'll wait to see if there is a functional whole beyond better physics than previous games, because that in itself won't be enough. Deffo not a pre-order, and never a buy if there is no co-op.

Austin Ogonoski said:

No damage during accidents. Train track AI. Yawn.

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I soon lost all the initial hype after the rf2 physics news (I was hyped because the road courses might be fun, but RF2 AI is god awful).
Got worried when I started to think they instead should go into the porn industry with the amount of teaser pics they posted, but it shows that they knew the game was far from ready.

Your video kinda validated my worries, and you may have saved me a big chunk of change!

Did not expect to see it so fast considering the acquisition of S397 was to use their physics and other 1 and 0's to get this game to where they wanted it to be. Perhaps MSG are the wunderkind we have all been dreaming of to get games to market but the skeptic in me makes me think it was a band aid to get something released and revenue generated.

Last Nascar simulation was back in 2003 made by amazing Papyrus, everything after it, not worth mentioning, just arcades. And this one is the same, no doubt about it.

I'll stick with NR 2003.

MustartMatters said:

I soon lost all the initial hype after the rf2 physics news (I was hyped because the road courses might be fun, but RF2 AI is god awful).
Got worried when I started to think they instead should go into the porn industry with the amount of teaser pics they posted, but it shows that they knew the game was far from ready.

Your video kinda validated my worries, and you may have saved me a big chunk of change!

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rF2 AI is not awful, nor AI is element physics. AI is quite literally a simulated intelligence, and to some extent psychology and perhaps even some extra human factors - like being stupid or just wrong.

I also wish for lots of improvements for rF2 AI, despite its lacks it is still one of the best if not best. And sure could be a lot better still. AFAIK it used to be better than it is now.

AI utilizes physics, it isn't part of it. rF2 physics is very good, change my mind (sips coffee). AI does use some parameters which are included in physics files of cars, but after all they are specifically AI parameters. AI in rF2 has different tire than player, but it does not make AI worse, the problems that exist with AI at this time is more related with some hardcoded algorithms that gives them decisions what to do, nothing wrong with physics, for example overtaking slower cars in the straights and how they use brakes and throttle. I imagine some of these algorithms are very complex, I remember Lord Kunos working a ton on AI for AC. Can't imagine it being less complex in rF2. So good luck.

ale9357 said:

Funny how some people can judge a game after 1 minute short of reveal trailer.

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It's funny how a game developer asks people to pre-order their game after 1 minute short of reveal trailer.

If the game cannot be judged then maybe they shouldn't ask people to pay money for it.

Why do some people beg developers to make a new title and then boycott it? (you need examples?).

Sim racing is niche.

I have to buy all the sims and games to keep the developers in business.

After all, the price of this (when not on sale) only equals the price of four cars in other games, or a few months of letting me use my games.

Also we can always keep criticizing and asking for better..

Big Yawn!!!

mantasisg said:

rF2 AI is not awful, nor AI is element physics. AI is quite literally a simulated intelligence, and to some extent psychology and perhaps even some extra human factors - like being stupid or just wrong.

I also wish for lots of improvements for rF2 AI, despite its lacks it is still one of the best if not best. And sure could be a lot better still. AFAIK it used to be better than it is now.

AI utilizes physics, it isn't part of it. rF2 physics is very good, change my mind (sips coffee). AI does use some parameters which are included in physics files of cars, but after all they are specifically AI parameters. AI in rF2 has different tire than player, but it does not make AI worse, the problems that exist with AI at this time is more related with some hardcoded algorithms that gives them decisions what to do, nothing wrong with physics, for example overtaking slower cars in the straights and how they use brakes and throttle. I imagine some of these algorithms are very complex, I remember Lord Kunos working a ton on AI for AC. Can't imagine it being less complex in rF2. So good luck.

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The road course AI in rF2 (mod/track dependent) is fairly good, but I know Oval physics and AI is fairly poor.

Some speedway tracks on rF2 are just pack racing and train tracking, and you literally can hold the bottom lane and nobody (human or AI) could get around you, and simulated dirty air etc isn't well developed.

I did a whole indycar league last year and I know that the ovals aren't the best on rF2

What RF2 is the best at IMO is the driving, flat spots, brake failures, good tyre model etc. The Driving IMO is awesome, but the Oval AI and physics is lacking.

@MustartMatters You might be right, I know next to nothing about NASCAR. But surely they drive there one after another a lot, and having great AI simulation of masterful break of slipstreaming must be a necessity there, even more so than simulating straight of classic Lemans racing.

Dirty air in Nascar is very unique. They get sensitive to crazy effects. But various things works, I know for example bump drafting works.

If the single player will be good and the wheel experience’s going to be better than Nascar Heat 4 I’d buy it. I’m italian and I don’t watch NASCAR but playing as my driver should be fun.