€2.5k budget for a motion rig - what should I do

[Billy Pilgrim]

Hi
I saw the DOF Reality Consumer H3 (3 Axis) moton rig which sells for under €2k. I hadn't thought such a thing was possible so hadn't really loooked into motion rigs. I quickly checked out reviews for it, and they seem positive - what I've found so far, at least.

So I'm now very much hoping to get myself a moton rig. I'll need a seat to go with it too, I guess.

Please... let me know what I should do. Should I get that DOF Reality motion rig? Or should I take my €2.5k and spend it on something else, some other motion rig type thing? A seat mover, simply? I still don't know much about these things.

(BTW, I have already budgetted for the kids' education)

 

[BluePotato00]

SFX-100 is by far the best bang for the buck for a motion system. I've been running mine since January 2019 and couldn't be happier.

 

[TedBrosby-]

Personally I have been delaying this decision because a lot of people say they end up disabling it because it’s distracting and they only use it for fun but not for competitive racing.
If I do go motion I’d go SFX-100 and spend a lot of time on EMI protection.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

EMI protection

Thanks for your reply.
Why EMI protection?

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

SFX-100 is by far the best bang for the buck for a motion system. I've been running mine since January 2019 and couldn't be happier.

Thanks for the reply. I had a quick Google of SFX 100 (didn't know anything about it before).

The SFX 100 is a DIY build that follows certain plans/instructions - is that right?

I doubt that I'm realistically going to find the time to build one.

 

[Jan Larsen]

From SFX site: ' As opposed to a commercial system, this is a DIY system. You need to build the actuators, wire up the controller, flash firmware and setup.'

If you dont know much about motion systems, is it, with all due respect, a good idea to thrust yourself into such a project? I'd never dream of doing all that, even though I understand mechanics and electronics just fine.

 

[BluePotato00]

I had no engineering experience going into the project and only consider myself a novice handyman. I too was reluctant to pull the trigger. If I can do it, anyone can. The community is very helpful and there is even more resources for builders now than there was when I was building. I'm sure we're close to 500 completed builds at this point.

With respect to those who say they turn off motion for competitive racing, I've heard that sentiment from just a couple of our SFX-100 builders. I always run motion even in competitive online races and wouldn't want it any other way - even if I'm sacrificing a few tenths per lap.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

I would love to give it a go but there is no way I'll find the time for building something like that (and putting in the time to learn how to do it).

Anyone know anything about this DOF Reality P3 rig?

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

I had no engineering experience going into the project and only consider myself a novice handyman. I too was reluctant to pull the trigger. If I can do it, anyone can. The community is very helpful and there is even more resources for builders now than there was when I was building. I'm sure we're close to 500 completed builds at this point.

With respect to those who say they turn off motion for competitive racing, I've heard that sentiment from just a couple of our SFX-100 builders. I always run motion even in competitive online races and wouldn't want it any other way - even if I'm sacrificing a few tenths per lap.

How long did it take? All included: sourcing parts, learning, building?

 

[Neilski]

With respect to those who say they turn off motion for competitive racing, I've heard that sentiment from just a couple of our SFX-100 builders. I always run motion even in competitive online races and wouldn't want it any other way - even if I'm sacrificing a few tenths per lap.

Gosh, I'm surprised and disappointed to hear that this is a thing.
I'd have expected and very much hoped that the cues you get from the motion would make you quicker, not slower. It should make it easier to find the sweet spot in steering angle when cornering, for example - no?

 

[Kieran527]

How long did it take? All included: sourcing parts, learning, building?

I started my build this week actually.
In terms of sourcing parts, you’re looking at a few hours oN the Internet, if you want to shop around for the best prices, or just email Amy I think it is a for the mechanical parts. I built my 4 actuators over the last 2 nights in the garage, no more than 4 hours, and that was fannying around taking photos. Electrical bits I expect me to take another couple of evenings, as i want tidy wiring and to make a very neat job of it.
Longest part is 3D Printing the parts, and delivery from China, the build is easy and such a small timeframe.

 

[BluePotato00]

How long did it take? All included: sourcing parts, learning, building?

I'd estimate ~40 person hours total to learn and build. It's easier now with most of the wiring handled by the SFX Shield.

~2 months from when I ordered my first part to being fully up and running.

 

[BluePotato00]

Gosh, I'm surprised and disappointed to hear that this is a thing.
I'd have expected and very much hoped that the cues you get from the motion would make you quicker, not slower. It should make it easier to find the sweet spot in steering angle when cornering, for example - no?

I don't know what my lap time differences are with motion on/off. Even if I did and found I was slower with motion, I'd still want to run with motion for the fun/immersion factor.

I do know for certain that I feel more fatigued after a race with motion. Again - it's all worth it.

 

[Jan Larsen]

What some people dont think about is that motion systems can get you 'car sick'. The problem is that the motion itself is often seperated to the screen (seat moving, screen not) which forces the eyes to constantly adjust. This is also what some pro simracers found out and for that reason they switched it off.
I tried a bunch of motion systems in different ways and shapes at the Simracing Expo last year, all of them vastly different to one another, but they could all be categorized in two - motion with or without a moving monitor. Those without had the most realistic seat feel but made you queasy, but those with had effects far over the top, almost like a theme park rollercoaster. None of them had the perfect setup.
Personally I'd mount the entire rig (frame, seat, wheel, monitor stand, monitor - everything) on the actuators so only the actuators touch the ground for the perfect, immersive motion setup.
But for pure laptime I'd go solid rig setup.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Gosh, I'm surprised and disappointed to hear that this is a thing.
I'd have expected and very much hoped that the cues you get from the motion would make you quicker, not slower. It should make it easier to find the sweet spot in steering angle when cornering, for example - no?

I think the thing is the fastest sim only racers run with minimal ffb force and no motion because they don’t want any feedback affecting their steering inputs. All they really do is learn a track/car combo like a speed run of a Mario.

From my perspective I drive on feel not repetition of the same combos so it makes me more consistent but not as fast outright. Like real life if you slam into a kerb and the car is thrown about and the wheel is jolted hard instinctively you ease off a little more than you would without any feedback. Motion along with realistic ffb strength for me adds that, granted not the fear of death too when it all goes wrong but that’s a positive in my book.

What some people dont think about is that motion systems can get you 'car sick'. The problem is that the motion itself is often seperated to the screen (seat moving, screen not) which forces the eyes to constantly adjust. This is also what some pro simracers found out and for that reason they switched it off.
I tried a bunch of motion systems in different ways and shapes at the Simracing Expo last year, all of them vastly different to one another, but they could all be categorized in two - motion with or without a moving monitor. Those without had the most realistic seat feel but made you queasy, but those with had effects far over the top, almost like a theme park rollercoaster. None of them had the perfect setup.
Personally I'd mount the entire rig (frame, seat, wheel, monitor stand, monitor - everything) on the actuators so only the actuators touch the ground for the perfect, immersive motion setup.
But for pure laptime I'd go solid rig setup.

I’m not sure those rigs are a good representation as they turn them with the motion to the max, I’ve got a static monitor and the rig doesn’t move around enough for it to be noticeable.

 

[BluePotato00]

I think the thing is the fastest sim only racers run with minimal ffb force and no motion because they don’t want any feedback affecting their steering inputs. All they really do is learn a track/car combo like a speed run of a Mario.

From my perspective I drive on feel not repetition of the same combos so it makes me more consistent but not as fast outright. Like real life if you slam into a kerb and the car is thrown about and the wheel is jolted hard instinctively you ease off a little more than you would without any feedback. Motion along with realistic ffb strength for me adds that, granted not the fear of death too when it all goes wrong but that’s a positive in my book.

I’m not sure those rigs are a good representation as they turn them with the motion to the max, I’ve got a static monitor and the rig doesn’t move around enough for it to be noticeable.

Right. At the sim racing expo, the motion rig manufacturers want to wow their audience with crazy amounts of motion. While that's fun for a few laps, nobody wants to run their rig like that all the time.

 

[Neilski]

I think the thing is the fastest sim only racers run with minimal ffb force and no motion because they don’t want any feedback affecting their steering inputs. All they really do is learn a track/car combo like a speed run of a Mario.

Hmm, but by that logic, you'd expect racers IRL to dial the power steering up to the max to improve their laptimes, no? (And as far as I know, that doesn't happen.)

And yeah, for sure, motion rigs will be advertised with them running at max, but I'm clinging to the notion that "sensible" (TM) amounts of motion should provide information that you can't get any other way

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Hmm, but by that logic, you'd expect racers IRL to dial the power steering up to the max to improve their laptimes, no? (And as far as I know, that doesn't happen.)

And yeah, for sure, motion rigs will be advertised with them running at max, but I'm clinging to the notion that "sensible" (TM) amounts of motion should provide information that you can't get any other way

Well real life is far more dynamic than a sim so that feedback is necessary to feel the track. Just look at how many of them hate racing in wet weather or variable conditions.

The other thing you can do in a sim is move all the necessary feedback to the wheel so you have all the information it’s just coming through your hands rather than the body.

The way I have mine setup is the wheel only has the same forces that you’d feel in an actual car and then a g-seat for simulated g-forces, motion for suspension/bumps and transducers for rpm but in a sim you can just have that all in the wheel.

 

[Neilski]

The way I have mine setup is the wheel only has the same forces that you’d feel in an actual car and then a g-seat for simulated g-forces, motion for suspension/bumps and transducers for rpm but in a sim you can just have that all in the wheel.

You can certainly attempt to map lots of stuff into the wheel FFB, but I'm not convinced it all works very well.
And how could you usefully map g forces into the wheel?

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

And how could you usefully map g forces into the wheel?

That’s a good question but it doesn’t help me work out what I should do with my approx €2.5k budget. Not your fault, Neilski, this thread slipped off topic some time ago