3D headphones

[Lesthegringo]

Hi all

I normally use a Denon AV amp connected to an old pair of Mordaunt Short hifi front speakers, some Denon satellites and a Klipsch active subwoofer for the rest of a 5.1 setup. It's great, but not suitable for use in an open plan environment where I can't close the door to prevent my long suffering wife from being blasted.

I picked up the G2 Reverb headset earlier this year, and since then have been using the attached 'headphones' as they are definitely better for the other half. The trouble is, they are not particularly great, especially as they are simple stereo, and they lack the power to give the same visceral feel that the original setup gave.

Looking online I see that there are 'surround sound' headphones out there, but I am unsure as to how effective they are. Some of them seem to have multiple speakers in them, but others don't and I am puzzled as to how they are able to produce 3D spacial effects. Most also seem to be attached via a wired connection, which obviously affects how they will feel, especially in tandem with the G2, which is itself wired.

An additional problem I have here is that there is not a great selection locally, which means 1) difficult to test in the shop and 2) limited online selection due to many vendors refusing to ship here. The combination of those two mean that I have to be sure of what I am trying to get as returns will be unlikely if they are not suitable.

So I would like to know what experiences you have with surround headphones and any guidance you can give in what to look for

I am starting at basics here, so any information given is very gratefully received

Cheers

Les

 

[Elaphe]

I have tried 5.1 headphones and it's a gimmick, just marketing. If you pay importance to spatial positioning, look for hifi open headphones with good soundstage, but don't expect anything that resembles a set of surround spearkers. I would stay away from gaming headphones.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I have tried 5.1 headphones and it's a gimmick, just marketing. If you pay importance to spatial positioning, look for hifi open headphones with good soundstage, but don't expect anything that resembles a set of surround spearkers. I would stay away from gaming headphones.

Completely agree.

I started with a cheap (40€) open hifi headset from Amazon and later went to Sennheiser HD599SE (around 100€, SE because they are black and not cream.)

Especially the later lets me hear tyre sounds localized enough so I can tell if front left or rear right is slipping.

They are not very heavy and as your are already "tethered" to your rig a second cable doesn´t seem problematic to me.

If they fit under/besides the VR headset I don´t know.

Of course you´d need an extra mic, I´m using the AntLion Mod Mic. The cable is fixed with clips to the headphone cables.

I personally don´t like wireless things, we don´t need to use batteries in everything that could work without.


MFG Carsten

 

[Lesthegringo]

Thanks guys. Looks like I'd be wasting my money then, I'll have to find a way to use my surround stuff

cheers

Les

 

[blekenbleu]

find a way to use my surround stuff

If not already using pucks in cushions for other tactile,
these could provide directional cues that, with learning,
integrate with headphone audio.

 

[Lesthegringo]

I'll have to look into 'pucks', never looked into the before. Can they be used with standard Audio amplifiers?

Cheers

Les

 

[stigs2cousin]

Thanks guys. Looks like I'd be wasting my money then, I'll have to find a way to use my surround stuff

cheers

Les

I don´t think so.

A good audio headset can give good directional feedback.
As mentioned above its called soundstage in Audiophile circles.

In my case motherboard audio wasn´t great but a cheap USB soundcard improved the sound quality notably.

Can you borrow a headset to try withe headphone jack of your receiver?

I´d think that should work to spare your wife.....

MFG Carsten

 

[Lesthegringo]

Unfortunately probably not; won't stop me asking around though

Looking at those puck things, they are more for tactile feedback rather than audion feedback, correct? I have a V3 on my rig so I do get the tactile feedback from that, but clearly you guys have used them for additional feedback

Cheers

Les

 

[RasmusP]

First, I'm not a real sound engineer and haven't read a professional book or anything about this. But I have mixed some bands for demos and had some short lectures about acoustics.
So I'm hopefully saying correct things, but I wouldn't say that I know these things 100% certain.

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/what-is-your-favorite-headset-for-sim-racing.212785/

Did you read through this thread already?
3D/surround headphones are more or less a gimmick. I'll explain:
For 3D sound, you have 3 different factors:
- latency between left/right ear depending where the sound comes from
(reflections from walls etc. are very important for these latencies!)

- Equalizer due to your auricle
(yes, you can fake front/behind effects with clever EQing. Used a lot in studios to give a depth effect although every single instrument/voice was recorded directly in front of the microphone)

- audio level (+eq) between left/right

With headphones, the audio level part is easily done with any headphones.

The difficulties are the EQ and latency part.
Normally things should be recorded with a pair of stereo microphones that have a similar distance to real ears. If not, you need audio tools that let you "mix 3D".
These tools will either output a multi track like 5.1 or stereo.
If stereo, they need to simulate a room and therefore add some "reverb" and EQ.

The last issue is to simulate the 3D dependent EQ of your audicles.

There are tools that can do it.


Overall the question is how good the source material is. Is it mixed to 5.1 or to stereo.
I'm not sure if the games have real time tools for this since cars driving around you need to have the same 3D effects.

However, back to stereo vs surround headphones:
No headphones are much bigger than your audicles so no matter how many speakers they have in the cup, your audicles won't produce the needed EQ. For that you'd need some ring of speakers around your head.
And they also can't produce the latencies+reflections, since the sound only travels to our ear, not inside of your room.

Both things are different when using 5.1 speakers! If the rear left speaker plays a sound, your room will give reflections and your 2 ears will EQ the sound and detect latencies.

So my opinion is:
Good stereo headphones are the best. High quality sound will make the details inside the source material clearer.
Good recommendations are in the linked thread

To test all this, watch some 3D effect videos. A decade or more ago, realtek onboard audio cards had some fun tool built in. Like a bee flying around you head. You could see the position and clearly hear it.

The faking of 3D audio via stereo is called "binaural audio".
Although binaural audio can also be directly recorded if you use microphones inside silicone audicles (or a full fake head).

However these "Surround" headphones, as far as I read, sometimes come with a software that fakes a 5.1 audio card for applications and then has a fancy algorithm to create the latencies and EQ to get binaural audio.

The software could do the same for standard stereo headphones though. ..

Here are two videos that work brilliantly for my stereo headphones:
(sadly, I have no idea how well the simracing titles are made... I'm detecting opponents quite well but I guess you're wishing for stuff like the engine sounding like in front or behind you, tyre squeals not only being left/right but also front/back etc).

 

[Lesthegringo]

Wow, plenty of details - thanks

I must confess to loving the visceral qualities of having the full surround audio kit working, it is very immersive. Maybe I can try and move it closer and reduce the volume. If nothing else, I already have the kit so it's a free try

Les