400 bucks for the sim

[Amanda]

Hi there!

After being disappointed with pretty much all simulators in one aspect or another, I thought I'd give R3E a try.

I always knew it's not a cheap sim, but this time I was actually surprised. When I looked the Premium Pack price, I almost spit my coffee out. Not kidding. "400 bucks?"

I'm not gonna get deep into details, but this is quite literally almost half the minimum wage over here. I have a house to pay, a daughter to provide to, food, bills, clothing, school.
I don't mind paying for content, not at all, but I just cannot imagine what went through the devs mind when they put this price for the Brazillian maket.

https://i.imgur.com/bfMOHOI.jpg

The vast majority of game developers, that publish on Steam, never do a 1/1 conversion between dollars and reals, because it just doesn't work. Would you buy R3E if you lived a little over minimum wage and R3E was priced at 500 bucks? Very few people would.

And I get it, BRL is cheaper than USD, but in order to make a sale in developing countries there needs to be a decision to either price it very high and don't make as much sales, or price it FAIRLY and sell more.
In fact, things cost so much over here that no wonder Brazil is called "pirate land". If you pay 7 bucks for 2L of coke and 40.000 bucks for a 1.0L car that is as bare-bones as can be, most people will chose to pirate a 100 bucks blu-ray film, much less a 400 bucks game.
The G29 alone was 2700 bucks in 2016.

Most games on Steam are priced to double the USD number in BRL. Assetto Corsa, for example, used to cost 25 USD, and sold in Brazil for 50 to 55 BRL (which is 16 USD). Result? Bought it straight away. Excellent content for fair price. And when the DLC was on sale for 50%? Bought it all too.
Right now it costs 20 USD, and it sells in Brazil for 38 BRL, which is 11 USD. That's a good deal.

I don't know how much the Premium Pack costs for the US, but I think it's from 50 to 70USD, right? If so, please sell it for 140 BRL. That way me and many others will buy all the content available. Otherwise, at this price point, I've got no choice but to not use it.

And buying cars/tracks individually wouldn't work either, in fact it would end up more expensive, way more. 12.50 for a car that I already own in all simulators except for R3E isn't exactly a good pricing strategy.

If I were to buy it, I'd buy everything for a good price, not piece by piece which in the end would come out more expensive.

For a price of one car in R3E users can get 10 cars and 2 tracks for Assetto Corsa. I just don't see the appeal for such expensive content.

If all content was priced at 140 BRL I'd buy it without thinking twice. Good cars and tracks, nice physics, best sounds out there, people commited to racing. It's just not worth 400+ bucks.

Regards

 

[Kenny Paton]

Can I suggest you look here and see if that's cheaper. We have players from Brazil and I've never heard them say the game costs that much.

 

[Case_]

I always knew it's not a cheap sim, but this time I was actually surprised. When I looked the Premium Pack price, I almost spit my coffee out. Not kidding. "400 bucks?"

It's not 400 bucks, though. It's around 120 bucks, or 95 euro, exactly the same price we have to pay (if we buy it this way, which is not the cheapest option available). As in USD. You keep mentioning "bucks", but the values you mention seem to be in reals (BRL). Should I be saying the premium pack costs 2400 bucks, since that's how much it is in my local currency?

And I get it, BRL is cheaper than USD, but in order to make a sale in developing countries there needs to be a decision to either price it very high and don't make as much sales, or price it FAIRLY and sell more.

I'd say that's exactly what happened - they made a decision and priced the game accordingly. It's just a decision you don't like (which is understandable). There's nothing unfair about it. You'd just prefer the game to be cheaper, because you're used to games being priced way lower in your country than in the rest of the world, and kinda seem to take that for granted. You know what, I'd love for games to be cheaper as well, I'm right there with you - I certainly have to work harder to earn the same amount in euro than people from some of the richer countries, yet the games are priced the same all over Europe. Then again, we're still talking about games - a luxury item purely for entertainment. Certainly nothing your life depends on, especially when living near the minimum wage.

That being said, I absolutely wish the game was priced more affordably for you (have you checked if you can perhaps buy vRP packs from raceroomstore.com and pay for content that way? it tends to be considerably cheaper, but I'm not sure if you can access it from Brazil). But at the same time, I just can't help feeling like you take your very special game prices a bit too much for granted for my tastes, sorry.

BTW, a great way to get some Raceroom content for someone who doesn't have a lot of money to spare on luxury things like games is to simply buy it piece by piece, over time. Yes, you pay slightly more overall if you add it all up, but you can stretch it over a considerable time period. Just buy a car here, track there. It will take some time, but it will be just a few bucks (or even "bucks") at once, and the content will be adding up. Buying the premium pack is a great money-saving option, but it's not for someone living on a tight budget who can't really spend a fair bit of money all at once on a game, IMO.

 

[Amanda]

Hey Kenny,

Thanks. Buying vrp's is certainly cheaper; still, converting 65EUR (10.000 vrp's) to BRL gives me 272 bucks.

While there is an option to buy the Pro Pack for 5000 vrp's (146 BRL), that's still quite high. Not only that, but I'm on the mentality of not buying half-finished games or half games then following up with expensive DLC - unless they're really cheap. Either I buy everything for a good price, or I don't. Sadly, while I'd love to support Sector 3 the same way I supported SimBin buy buying all their content, I think I'll have to let R3E pass and, quite frankly/happily, buy Assetto Corsa Competizione for e.g. 100 bucks, which IMO is a much better deal since Kunos will put a fair price the game for us in Brasil.

Cheers!

 

[natedogg1867]

Out of curiosity, how much are the old SimBin games for you in Brazil?

If you want to make your voice heard though, rather than posting here, get in touch directly with RaceRoom and let them know that even though they offer regional pricing, it is still comparatively high to other games in your region, and this is preventing you and others from being able to purchase the content. If you leave a polite yet passionate message, they might hear you. It's a region I dont think they have much presence in, so they may look to expand... and one way to do that would be to lower the price to be more competitive with other games in your region.

I partially agree with Martin though. Perhaps not to the point where Brazilians take their prices for granted though, since they make sense for the region, but Brazilian prices for games are extremely cheap. Perhaps some of the cheapest along with Ukraine and Russia. Which is one reason keys from those regions are often locked and cannot be activated in other regions.

I have fond memories of shopping on Nuuvem before they added a 'global' storefront with higher prices.

 

[Amanda]

It's not 400 bucks, though. It's around 120 bucks, or 95 euro, exactly the same price we have to pay (if we buy it this way, which is not the cheapest option available). As in USD. You keep mentioning "bucks", but the values you mention seem to be in reals (BRL). Should I be saying the premium pack costs 2400 bucks, since that's how much it is in my local currency?

My bad. To me "bucks" always meant "the currency I have". Whenever I actually want to be specific I actually say "USD" to not confuse people.

I'd say that's exactly what happened - they made a decision and priced the game accordingly. It's just a decision you don't like (which is understandable). There's nothing unfair about it.

Depends on how you look at it. From S3's POV it might as well be fair.

You'd just prefer the game to be cheaper, because you're used to games being priced way lower in your country than in the rest of the world, and kinda seem to take that for granted.

Yes. Gladly most developers realize that equivalency or buying-power is important. If e.g. Rockstar would sell GTA V here and just converted 60 USD to BRL, it would cost 205 BRL. Sales would be minimal.
Imagine you live in the USA and you need 3,41 USD to buy an Euro, and "Rockstar Eu" decided to just convert 60EUR to USD. It would be hard to convince as many people to buy GTA V for 205 dollars.

Instead, GTA V is priced at 100 BRL which is roughly 30 USD. They know it's much better to sell tons of copies of the game for cheaper than to not sell any. Anyone, not even being an expert on economics, should realize that, if a country has a smaller buying power, they (the company selling) simply won't be able to make as much money as they would if their product was cheaper, specially a digital product which can literally be distributed at virtually no cost.

Likewise, if Rockstart would want to sell GTA V in some very poor country, it would make no sense to price it at e.g. the equivalent of 600 bucks (in the US) for that country. Most would just pirate the game.
And regardless of arguments such as "they have other priorities", Rockstar is a company that wants to make money. If they wanted to make money off of such country, it would make sense to get 10 USD for every copy and sell 30.000 copies instead of getting 60 USD for every copy and selling 1000 of them.

You know what, I'd love for games to be cheaper as well, I'm right there with you - I certainly have to work harder to earn the same amount in euro than people from some of the richer countries, yet the games are priced the same all over Europe. Then again, we're still talking about games - a luxury item purely for entertainment. Certainly nothing your life depends on, especially when living near the minimum wage.

I'm actually trying to contact the developers to see if they realize it's better to sell it cheaper. Sim Racing is already a niche market, it's ridiculous how 2 to 5 million people own R3E yet peak players yesterday was a bit over 600.

Certainly price isn't the only reason R3E has such low numbers, but I bet it's a good reason why many chose not to continue with it. If the introduction of a "sim racing game" was "this was supposed to be free but then it didn't have many cars and you'd actually have to pay good money for it", no wonder sales are so low.

Of these 600 people, how many do you think own all content?
Of the 2 to 5 million downloads, how many people would actually consider buying content if it was cheaper? Regardless of the argument that "a car only costs a few bucks", for the average user I would thing it's more like "another game can provide more content and play hours, and also costs a few bucks".

And while it's certainly not a necessity, Sim Racing is one of my favorite hobbies. To support such market, I'm willing to put money on the developers' wallets, just not as much as Sector 3 asking. Me, and I believe many, many others as well.

Meanwhile Assetto Corsa sold roughly 1 million copies of the full game, and yesterday 2800 people were playing. It's much more affordable, which attracks more people, which makes the sim evolve, which brings content for cheaper, and this wheel never stops spinning. Unless, of course, Kunos decide to charge 100 BRL for the Dream Pack instead of 15 (7.50 when on sale) That's right, 10 very well built cars and the Nordschleife in 4 layouts, for the price of ONE car in R3E. No wonder AC sells well, regardless of what me or you may think of the sim.

I want to see Sim Racing grow, but it's not worth 270 bucks, or worse: 400 for those unfortunate to fall into S3's misleading pages.

That being said, I absolutely wish the game was priced more affordably for you (have you checked if you can perhaps buy vRP packs from raceroomstore.com and pay for content that way? it tends to be considerably cheaper, but I'm not sure if you can access it from Brazil). But at the same time, I just can't help feeling like you take your very special game prices a bit too much for granted for my tastes, sorry.

Think not about the conversion itself, but how charging 270 USD for R3E would sound for US citizens. Our minimum wage in Brazil is roughly 1000 BRL, and if you work 40hs/week in the US you'll get roughly 1300 USD. That is the comparison that matters, and which most game developers realized many years ago. It's what our money can buy, not what they'll get converting BRL to USD.

BTW, a great way to get some Raceroom content for someone who doesn't have a lot of money to spare on luxury things like games is to simply buy it piece by piece, over time. Yes, you pay slightly more overall if you add it all up, but you can stretch it over a considerable time period. Just buy a car here, track there. It will take some time, but it will be just a few bucks (or even "bucks") at once, and the content will be adding up. Buying the premium pack is a great money-saving option, but it's not for someone living on a tight budget who can't really spend a fair bit of money all at once on a game, IMO.

I'm thinking about S3 as well, not just what I can or cannot afford. Niche market, not a lot of people buying - all I want is to send some money to S3 in one piece. Much better than not buying anything from them or 3 USD here, another 3 there. I can pay 150 BRL right now, I wouldn't mind that, it's not a few bucks but it's not a lot either. I would like to spend a bit on my hobby, and I would like them to view purchases from the eyes of those who, while can only afford less, would buy in more quantity if prices were lower.

Cheers.

 

[UMC 22]

I'm just going to say that games are a luxury, not a necessity. You buy them if you can afford them and don't if you can't, they have no real impact on your survival. Do I think some games are over-priced? Absolutely. I won't ever pay more than £30 for a game even if I have thousands sitting in my bank account, purely out of principle. But it is what it is. You either wait for a sale or you do without. I can almost guarantee that complaining about it wont get you anywhere because there are too many people out there that will happily pay full price because they have more money than sense. Such is life.

 

[Amanda]

I'm just going to say that games are a luxury, not a necessity. You buy them if you can afford them and don't if you can't, they have no real impact on your survival. Do I think some games are over-priced? Absolutely. I won't ever pay more than £30 for a game even if I have thousands sitting in my bank account, purely out of principle. But it is what it is. You either wait for a sale or you do without. I can almost guarantee that complaining about it wont get you anywhere because there are too many people out there that will happily pay full price because they have more money than sense. Such is life.

I agree that games are a luxury, but many thousands of other things in our lives are. I don't mind supporting developers even if the games are a bit expensive. They have families too, it's their job, they have to make money.

I buy as many games as I can, considering they actually offer something I want. I have ~70 games on Steam, and 5 on Origin. For instance, while on sale I payed 25 BRL (~7 USD) for Assetto Corsa (~65BRL for all DLC), 31 BRL (~9USD) for F1 2017 and the same for rFactor 2, 80 BRL (~23USD) for Project Cars 2, 50 BRL (~15USD) for GTA V, and somewhere around 50 BRL for all older SimBin content.
Many of the game sI buy were on sale, most at 50%, others at 75%.

If you think about it, it's better to have me spending 150 BRL on 3 to 4 games in one buy, than buying smaller and extremely cheap games here and there, considering the pirating rate in 3rd world countries.
The same for Sector 3, much better for them to have more brazillians buying all content for 140-150 BRL, than a handful buying some cars here and there.

If others can sell their products for cheap here, and even cheaper when on sale, it's doable, they turn a huge profit either way, it makes sense. Much better than having 99% of brazilians pirating their games ;-)
We're kinda like other developing countries in this regard, it's a shame on developers who charge a lot and also on people who don't buy games that are cheap.

 

[Amanda]

Out of curiosity, how much are the old SimBin games for you in Brazil?

If you want to make your voice heard though, rather than posting here, get in touch directly with RaceRoom and let them know that even though they offer regional pricing, it is still comparatively high to other games in your region, and this is preventing you and others from being able to purchase the content. If you leave a polite yet passionate message, they might hear you. It's a region I dont think they have much presence in, so they may look to expand... and one way to do that would be to lower the price to be more competitive with other games in your region.

Thanks, I will.

I think I payed 50 BRL for all SimBin content. I did try Race07 1 or 2 days ago, but despite being my first true simulator it just didn't spark a fire on me, specially since very few people play it online and there's not enough of the content I'm looking for.

Cheers.

 

[natedogg1867]

Thanks, I will.

I think I payed 50 BRL for all SimBin content. I did try Race07 1 or 2 days ago, but despite being my first true simulator it just didn't spark a fire on me, specially since very few people play it online and there's not enough of the content I'm looking for.

Cheers.

Ahh yeah, that sounds a lot more like what I would expect.

The only thing I would note here, is that it may be better to contact RaceRoom, rather than Sector3. Sector3 may be the developer of the game, but they dont really make the financial decisions about pricing and that sort of thing.

This link should be for RaceRoom to leave some thoughts, in case you only foundthe Sector3 support link: http://www.raceroom.com/en/support/#contact-form

I'm just going to say that games are a luxury, not a necessity. You buy them if you can afford them and don't if you can't, they have no real impact on your survival. Do I think some games are over-priced? Absolutely. I won't ever pay more than £30 for a game even if I have thousands sitting in my bank account, purely out of principle. But it is what it is. You either wait for a sale or you do without. I can almost guarantee that complaining about it wont get you anywhere because there are too many people out there that will happily pay full price because they have more money than sense. Such is life.

To be honest, I can see where Amarildo is coming from here. Seems RR doesnt use regional pricing at all, so it's at its full price in other regions. And while it's true some regions may have quite cheap games from our perspective, compared to the normal market in those regions, this may be rather expensive.

I've bought a number of triple A games from the Brazilian retailer Nuuvem a number of years ago, and I dont think I have ever paid more than 50 BRL (when converted) for anything.

Of course, this might not just be an issue in Brazil as I have no idea if RR uses regional pricing anywhere... but the more feedback they get, the more likely they are to do something about it if they decide it would be worth it to do so.

 

[Patrick van der Meulen]

I see your point @AmarildoJr

Even in Europe there is a pretty big difference in income, and just like in Brasil within countries themself there are sometimes shockingly big differences in incomes. Which makes it difficult to correct a price to the level of welfare of a country to a price point almost everybody could afford it. I would certainly contact Sector 3 directly. I would find it fair if people less fortunate than us relatively “rich” people get an increased discount. Since spending a half month of your salary to a game is indeed nuts.

My educated guess is that my humble opinion isn’t that popular, but my opinion is that everybody with a reasonable income for it’s country should have access to even this kind of non-life depending “luxury” like this. And bare in mind that most “luxury” items have corrected pricelevels to every country or part of the world.

It isn’t strange when reasonable hardware is cheap in one’s country, but some software on the other hand very expensive.

I hope you get a good extra discount from @J-F Chardon and friends. I certainly wouldn’t mind because I understand your and many others situation.

 

[Case_]

I'm perfectly OK with Brazil (or anyone else for that matter) having special discount for games because of lower income. By all means, enjoy it. Just please don't consider paying the same price as everyone else as somehow being *unfair* to you. That just comes off as you feeling entitled to the special discount you're used to having (and that's really my biggest issue here). As already mentioned several times, the difference in wages and relative value is not exclusive to Brazil. Neither is living on a minimum wage (or below). Yes, it sucks we can't all afford the same things, and yes, in an ideal world, we would be able to. But paying the same price as everyone else is not unfair - if anything, the fact you're not making enough money to live a comfortable life in your country is.

 

[Vangelis Parginos]

I think staff members can change the topic title, cause its misleading for new members.

For me 65 euros is a fair price for the hole game, other games cost the same or more and its not gonna last as a racing sim which is still developing. I have paid about 4 times this price cause when i started there was no packs. So it seems fair.
I get your point cause i live in Greece and most of the time im unemployed. Its not perfect but if i consider the time i have spend in this sim and the joy i get, i say its worth it.

Hope you find what you looking for.

 

[CDwyer]

$123.49 is the cost for all content or 9,999 vrp
http://game.raceroom.com/store/pack/premium-pack
10,000 vrp is currently $64.99
https://www.raceroomstore.com/us/list_page?cat=24

 

[Amanda]

This link should be for RaceRoom to leave some thoughts, in case you only foundthe Sector3 support link: http://www.raceroom.com/en/support/#contact-form

Thanks.

A few days ago I contated support via the above link. Their response was another link "to contact the support directly".

This new contact was supposed to be directed at RaceRoom themselves, but apparently it got redirected to Sector 3, probably because of the "R3E" choice I made when filling the form.

I've gotta say, I'm actually hopeful that some change will be made. Kitsune was extremely kind and understanding, stating:

I can pass this on but Sector3 only makes game content. The pricing in the store is not something we decided here at the studio. I will ensure this is brought up though, it's certainly a fair point that's brought up.

On the behalf of emerging economies, I hope change actually happens.
I'm actually finishing downloading R3E, perhaps I'll be able to dump some cash into their pockets

 

[Eddie Ellis]

Automobilista might be a better choice for Amirildo. It's a very good sim and it won't have any issues with exchange rates.

 

[Jerry Payne]

I feel like the price is fine. I downloaded the free version from Steam and just added the cars and tracks I wanted and would actually use. For instance, I am more interested in time trials, hot lapping and hill climbs so buying modern WTCC, DTM cars ect isn't necessary for me to enjoy this wonderful sim. I may have about 50 usd invested and it's worth every cent. I was able to save money by buying discounted packs. If you are one of those people that like to hoard cars and tracks you'll never use, then yes the price is too high.

I play
PC2, Assetto Corsa,
RRE, Dirt Rally, RBR, Dirt 4,
BeamNG.