AC 90s BTCC Season Registration

Interslice · Sep 1, 2023

The Bimmer (I will so maybe trigger Carsten here

), when you lower the rear of the car to try stabilise it, it - toes the rear pretty hard. Whatever bit lowers the rear of car is at an odd angle!
I'm not sure how they lower cars in sims, what actually changes relative to real life. I think it replaces the coilover spring and shock absorber assembly with a new set every time you click. A shorter shock and an appropriate new spring maybe.

Kek700 · Sep 1, 2023

Edited,

started to confuse myself

stigs2cousin · Sep 2, 2023

Medilloni said:
Re your previous post Ernie, curiosity got to me and tried it again this eve - biggest surprise was playing with 'packers', I even wondered if the dev had mis-labelled them (instead of 'springs') due to the difference it seemed to make

After lengthy conversation with Rasmus (thanks again

) and some more rl research I can state that "Packers" is indeed a misnomer, it should be Bumpstops.
And Rasmus told me that Bumpstops nowadays are used to create a "dual stage spring package" which makes damper setup even more of a compromise. The springrate changes drastically mid stroke and BMW introduced their WAD Dämpfer (stroke related damper) only in our Millenium

Interslice said:
The Bimmer (I will so maybe trigger Carsten here ), when you lower the rear of the car to try stabilise it, it - toes the rear pretty hard. Whatever bit lowers the rear of car is at an odd angle!

Consider me seriously triggered

"Whatever lowers the car" is a state of the art "trailing arm" suspension (that has horrible bumpsteer/ changes camber and toe massivly over its travel range.
This can partly be remedied with excentric trailing arm bushings which need a "Master of the Dark Arts" to get right

Don´t know about the Volvo but the Primera seems to have a rather "interesting" strut rear suspension, now idea how bad bumpsteer is

Kek700 · Sep 2, 2023

Try as i may, I cannot make the Primera into a BMW, it is as far as my driving goes, going to bite me most laps.
I realise it may be a knifes edge setup, that I do not believe, and to get the thousands of combinations and find one that works is a tall order, if at all possible. Its beyond this dim wits ability, that's for sure.
My next move is to follow Roberts route and a slightly modified standard setup. I will revisit that with a time gap and then directly compare to my much modified attempt.
Then I just have to accept the Primera, warts and all, I just love driving the thing, but with the proviso that it is stable and that seems like a no go, at least for me.

stigs2cousin · Sep 2, 2023

It´s often a good idea to take a step back.

(in suspension work it´s also SOP to go back to the beginning to see if the "old dog at the wheel" was responsible for the change as he learned something about driving.)

I just can´t fathom how race teams manage that kind of work with limited track time, not speaking of amateur racers like RCN and co..

Maybe Ernie, you could relax thrashing some Hairderssers in your Shopping Cart?

Interslice · Sep 2, 2023

stigs2cousin said:
After lengthy conversation with Rasmus (thanks again ) and some more rl research I can state that "Packers" is indeed a misnomer, it should be Bumpstops.
And Rasmus told me that Bumpstops nowadays are used to create a "dual stage spring package" which makes damper setup even more of a compromise. The springrate changes drastically mid stroke and BMW introduced their WAD Dämpfer (stroke related damper) only in our Millenium

Consider me seriously triggered

"Whatever lowers the car" is a state of the art "trailing arm" suspension (that has horrible bumpsteer/ changes camber and toe massivly over its travel range.
This can partly be remedied with excentric trailing arm bushings which need a "Master of the Dark Arts" to get right

Don´t know about the Volvo but the Primera seems to have a rather "interesting" strut rear suspension, now idea how bad bumpsteer is

Didn't realise they had such an inferior suspension to the E30

Always presumed it was a similar system!

stigs2cousin · Sep 2, 2023

It´s FWD, what will you expect

YOU triggered it!

stigs2cousin · Sep 2, 2023

Kek700 · Sep 2, 2023

I have for most of my life driven FWD, but and this is a big but, my bum has always been seated into those cars, so I had all that information flowing through my nether region’s.
That meant I could easily deal with the sudden oversteer. Now
I have to wait for a visual image to inform me and then a collaboration between visual and FFB.
No wonder it is difficult.

Medilloni · Sep 2, 2023

Kek700 said:
I have for most of my life driven FWD, but and this is a big but, my bum has always been seated into those cars, so I had all that information flowing through my nether region’s.
That meant I could easily deal with the sudden oversteer. Now
I have to wait for a visual image to inform me and then a collaboration between visual and FFB.
No wonder it is difficult.

Interesting that Ernie - it was prob the single best improvement when I got the DD, it's not an expensive one, but it's stunning with feedback for fwd cars, especially the shift to oversteer.

...but yeh, bum feeling is better, to coin a phrase

Kek700 · Sep 2, 2023

I agree john, I may be prone to good old moan and bitch, but my DD is worth its weight in gold ( bit of an exaggeration )

Medilloni · Sep 6, 2023

Kek700 said:
Well. early days yet, you may be onto something, it is so easy to have a good lap and think it is your magic setup tweak.
I did notice that the MoTeC trace was better damped, it certainly smooths out suspension movement irregularities, plus the car seems quicker.
I am not the best person to test this, Rasmus, jack and myself did a lot of work on the GTR it was quite apparent early on that I was quite numb when it came to feeling the car, so I took a back seat and just tried each setup tweak.

try this , i found your car too sensitive with the steering, the car was not stable on entry, it was no quicker, but the laps strung together more reliably.
But that was me driving, may be to "fixed" at the rear for you.

tested your setup at Brands.

your setup with my tweaks, be interesting to find what you think.

Er, it's much faster Ernie, took .250 off easily

....though different driving styles 'n all, I found the back end 'went' more suddenly, only slightly though.

To compare to last time, adjusted fuel and tyres to the same as I used before - 34ltrs and mediums. You made it feel more like the Volvo

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A side note - had my 1st track day in many yrs at Donny GP last Monday, courtesy of a very generous (and trusting!) friend, Redgate seems very different irl, but the rest of the sim version was great, a real help for the day

(edited pic out for privacy, sorry!)

Interslice · Sep 6, 2023

Medilloni said:
Er, it's much faster Ernie, took .250 off easily ....though different driving styles 'n all, I found the back end 'went' more suddenly, only slightly though.

To compare to last time, adjusted fuel and tyres to the same as I used before - 34ltrs and mediums. You made it feel more like the Volvo
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A side note - had my 1st track day in many yrs at Donny GP last Monday, courtesy of a very generous (and trusting!) friend, Redgate seems very different irl, but the rest of the sim version was great, a real help for the day

(edited pic out for privacy, sorry!)

What were you driving John!?

Medilloni · Sep 6, 2023

Interslice said:
What were you driving John!?

A Caterham 7 Brian, it's currently in the Toyo Tires 7 series 420R Championship (https://7raceseries.co.uk/7rs-classes/), a friend of mine (met through sim racing of all things

!) very kindly offered what I thought was a few laps about a week ago, ended doing four 20min sessions, the 2 and half hr trip from home well worth it

Damn, I miss irl stuff

Have to say, my body is still recovering from the effort, I'll never complain FFB is too strong again

Edit: Wish my (sim) sequential shifter worked, was really not prepared for the constant rush of acceleration that gives, felt like a turbine

Interslice · Sep 6, 2023

Medilloni said:
A Caterham 7 Brian, it's currently in the Toyo Tires 7 series 420R Championship (https://7raceseries.co.uk/7rs-classes/), a friend of mine (met through sim racing of all things !) very kindly offered what I thought was a few laps about a week ago, ended doing four 20min sessions, the 2 and half hr trip from home well worth it Damn, I miss irl stuff

Have to say, my body is still recovering from the effort, I'll never complain FFB is too strong again

Very nice! So does it understeer like the sim or drift and slide about the place!?

Ye I'm mad get some irl stuff going. Sim racing is just so handy! No drive to get there, sore body, empty pockets etc.

Plan on doing a Formula Sheane day at Mondello here in the next month or so.

Medilloni · Sep 6, 2023

Interslice said:
Very nice! So does it understeer like the sim or drift and slide about the place!?

Ye I'm mad get some irl stuff going. Sim racing is just so handy! No drive to get there, sore body, empty pockets etc.
Plan on doing a Formula Sheane day at Mondello here in the next month or so.

Ooh, the Formula Sheane looks good Brian! Doitdoitdoit

Mate, you'd have a ball, it should be compulsory

"Very nice! So does it understeer like the sim or drift and slide about the place!?"
The AC mod '420r 2020' is bloody awful, not remotely close to irl - the car I drove had just a perfect touch of understeer (for Craner Curves) - but mega grippy front push, not terminal, no weight transfer to speak of, back end under power sits like a Labrador waiting for a biscuit.

The wallowing, bouncy soft suspension of that mod is nuts, such a shame

- been a while since I drove the AC 620R but I think it's more realistic. If I have time will have another go in it, 'cos I love these cars irl - enough grip to scare you shitless, but in a very controllable way.

Interslice · Sep 6, 2023

Medilloni said:
Ooh, the Formula Sheane looks good Brian! Doitdoitdoit Mate, you'd have a ball, it should be compulsory

I'll get on it again. Just trying to pin down a date that suits myself and the karting/sim racing irl buddy !

Medilloni said:
"Very nice! So does it understeer like the sim or drift and slide about the place!?"
The AC mod '420r 2020' is bloody awful, not remotely close to irl - the car I drove had just a perfect touch of understeer (for Craner Curves) - but mega grippy front push, not terminal, no weight transfer to speak of, back end under power sits like a Labrador waiting for a biscuit.

The wallowing, bouncy soft suspension of that mod is nuts, such a shame - been a while since I drove the AC 620R but I think it's more realistic. If I have time will have another go in it, 'cos I love these cars irl - enough grip to scare you shitless, but in a very controllable way.