A few quick questions about direct drive and ffb in general

[Kenneth Jurmann]

Hey guys,

there are a few questions I have in mind for quite some time and I figured, I should simply ask them on RD.

I myself am using a T300 integrale (G25 before that and lower class Thrustamster wheels even before that) for a long time now and back then I was sure, I will update to DD at some point, when the prices are at a similar level. Around 500 euros would be my budget... As that is still not the case for a set with a wheel and pedals, I'm still waiting and might be lucky to get a used set at some point.

I never used a DD wheel and my question is:

1. How do DD wheels handle the around center deadzones (low forces) compared to a T300?

Usually any wheel is a bit lighter around the center which can be compensated by upping the min forces in a game. That on the other hand sometimes lead to an over
exaggeration of bumps, oscillation and strange jumps in ffb linearity after the min-force region (depends on game and car). It is always a fiddling around to make this important part of the steering smooth and believable. Do DD wheels have any special feature for that? Or is it the same problem all over again?

2. Is the ffb to blame?

Is the ffb code (that the hole industry is working with) still up for the task or should this be modernised? I mean, ffb is always working with 2 forces. Pull clockwise and pull counterclockwise. Specially when driving straight, that usually brings oscillation into the wheel. Is there no other way of doing this? Or is that the difference to a DD wheel? Does a DD wheel simply put out a force and doesn't push or pull to create that force? Because if not, it should have the same problems, right?

Can't wait for your answers!

Cheers Kenny

 

[stigs2cousin]

Hy Kenneth,

I upgraded my T300 to an Simucube SC2 pro at the last Black Friday and have not looked back since.

(Disclaimer:
I have real world driving experience on track, autocross and drifting, all at a beginners level.
My intention to get "realistic" feedback as in the same feel and forces as in my car failed.
But that doesn´t matter as the SC2 together with bassshakers on pedals and seat allows me to drive intuitively. It just feels "right" and gives all the info I need to judge the movement of the car and the tyres.)

To Q1:

What deadzone?

A DD wheelbase has no mechanical leverage on the steering shaft, that´s why it can give much finer and more detailed feedback, no slop to overcome.

To Q2:

I can´t answer that as I "drive" only Asseto Corsa" and do not want for more/different feedback.

If you have the chance do a testdrive on a DD wheel base, then you´ll know.
And keep in mind that for the forces (and even more the detail !!) you´ll need a solid rig.
On a desk/chair combination I believe a DD wheel to be a waste of money.

MFG Carsten

 

[vannib]

A DD wheel is the single most important upgrade you can make.
It's worth every eur on every possible side: realism, immersion, driving improvement, etc.

It's like moving from black and white to 4k HDR TV.

 

[Kenneth Jurmann]

Hey @stigs2cousin,

thank you for all the info. You might remember, that with the t300 there is a ffb-deadzone around the center of the steering to reduce oscillation because of two forces working against each other.

This deadzone can be reduced by upping the minimum forces within Assetto Corsa.

That on the other hand makes steering around the center of the steering range feel strange because it adds oscillation and harsh ffb. Adding to much minimum forces also adds a kink in ffb output when going past that amplified minimom force... So, not really a good solution...

I always wanted to understand if DD wheels do this any different. I know they have far more linear ffb output, but the problem around the center of steering would stay the same. Still harsh ffb output and two forces that work against each other...

Maybe I just can't explain what I mean... lol. And maybe you already answerd my question in saying:

A DD wheelbase has no mechanical leverage on the steering shaft, that´s why it can give much finer and more detailed feedback, no slop to overcome.

But you are right, I should find a way to test a dd wheel. It would help alot to understand the difference and if there is an advantage only DD wheels can bring to the table...

Thanks again guys!

 

[blekenbleu]

I always wanted to understand if DD wheels do this any different.

Oscillation comes from feedback system instability, which is a product of gain times delay.
Delay results from lash (lost motion) which occurs
when changing direction with gear or belt drive,
which is mostly not present in direct drive, depending on feedback resolution.