AI is bad

[echbesundduned]

Hey there. Nobody seems to have this issue or people just ignore it. If i race the AI especially on the Nürburgring Nordschleife they're annoying to the point where i don't even start a race and if i do i close the game after a minute. How can this be so accepted in the community when the AI keeps braking on the Exit of corners while you'r chasing them. Who would expect anyone to brake at corner exits except some crash is happening? This ruins the experience for me so much. And then there is the other Problem when you get side by side, i cannot pass the AI a lot of times even tho the have like 66% of the Track while i use 33% and they still bump into me. I don't understand how anyone who has a bit experience in Simracing can enjoy that at all. I don't race other tracks because it's boring to me. I can't imagine how changing of the aggression could get rid of the problem on corner exits and thats the only "solution" i have found so far in the Forums.

Cheers

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I don't personally race on that track in AC, but I have had similar issues with the artificial slowdown on other tracks and found mods that have helped (Bathurst springs to mind as a recent example). Finding a mod is not exactly straightforward as the tagging depends on who is doing the mod. Here is an example of a set of tagged ones though: https://www.racedepartment.com/tags/ai-line/

You could also take the time to do your own lines. I have not done this personally, as I think I'd actually make the AI worse overall if they used my lines!

For the bumping, I don't have a solution, but I never found it too bad as they are still fairly predictable and I can usually tell if I'm going to get away with a manoeuvre before I attempt it

 

[Moorea]

Most of us know that AI was never Assetto's strong point and it can get especially bad on narrow tracks like the Ring. But frankly I don't think any sim has managed to make an AI system that works properly on a wide variety of cars yet.

You can always tinker with racing lines and individual cars' AI settings in data.acd but I wouldn't expect too much.

 

[Cote Dazur]

AI, in Assetto Corsa, or any other SIM, is Combo dependent.
AI in Assetto is my favorite, does not mean it is always good, but it is the most satisfying to me.
If AI is important to you, then you will have to dig deeper. As opposed to other SIM where AI is what it is, few ajustement at best, mostly how fast and how aggressive, most are not even using the same physic as the driver car.
In AC, particularly with CM, the range of adjustment is almost unlimited, down to be able to create your own Al line and alter any characteristic on how they drive.
It will require a little effort on your side, but if it important for you, well worth the efforts.

 

[Emery]

Hey there. Nobody seems to have this issue or people just ignore it.

You're not wrong. AC AI is the worst out there. It's like you've gotten onto a server where all the competitors are drunk & weaving around. As a driver, the one thing you can do to make it better is don't trap them on the wrong side of the driving line because they will stop at nothing to get back onto line.

 

[gecco]

@echbesundduned Well, they should not brake at corner exit, and if they do, it might have to do with what is happening in front of the car in question. Few years back, I ran the AIs quite regularly on Nords, and I've never experienced that issue. My impression was that they did fairly well through the first corners, and through Hatzenbach, but often a pile up would occur on "Flugplatz"

Other then that, to get a good race with the AIs remains a matter of "know your enemies".
Most important is to keep your line mid corner and on exit. The AIs will not yield should you run wide. On braking on corner entry, the AIs will at some point make a decision, whether they will yield and give you room to dive down the inside, or not. Once you see, that the AI in front of you is going for the Apex, do not try to force your way, as they will stick to their line. Also being on their quarter panel round the outside, they may cut you off on exit.
On start, it's best to wait until they are done with their signature steering wheel shuffle before you get going.

The one big annoyance would be their reluctance to ovetake you swiftly if you coast or happen to get on the grass, but they will rather brake instead and keep behind you. And they are much to easy to defend against once you are in front.

If I were to summon it up, I'd say the AI in Assetto Corsa is a tad to cautious and rather stubborn, but I always rather enjoyed racing them, although I rarely do nowadays.

 

[Stereo]

As far as I understand it, the aggression slider is only there to let them make moves that risk hitting the player if the player doesn't avoid it. So if you're in a class where "rubbing is racing" like btcc you can move it above 0%.

The main positive vs other games for me is that they just use the same physics, the speed an AI can leave a corner is identical to a player. It's not some prescripted route where you can't run the same line as them since they're using 120% as much horsepower/grip and you only win cause that route is not very optimal.

 

[racinjoe013]

Since I only run offline, i've spent a great deal of time tinkering with the AI. In my experience, the Aggression slider is the biggest thing to tweak around with to get decent AI races. Problem is, what works for one mod doesn't for others so you have to take the time to find what works.

First thing I noticed is the aggression slider seems to impact how close cars will get to you and each other, which is why at times they will brake in strange ways if they enter a turn with a car in front of them, even if it's another AI car. Too low on aggression and they brake real early causing you to rear end them. Too high on aggression and they won't slow down when you brake ahead of them and just slam in to you. I also notice that with low aggression, they never want to pass me even when I leave an opening. Too high aggression makes the AI pretty much ignore you and just run you off the road even if you have the line. Now I don't mind this because it keeps me on my toes.

Then you have to take different mods into account. For instance, the GT4 mod from Guerilla mods is great to race against, even at 100% aggression. I can have clean battles for lap after lap. The RSS GT Pack is another story, I have to keep it around 95% or lower or it's a wreck fest. They wreck each other, they wreck me, it's just a mess. Don't know why there is a difference, but the difference is quite obvious.

And I won't even go into how the track, AI lines, AI Hints, etc. factor into all of this. I'll simply close by saying of all the racing games, I still have more fun against the AI with AC than any other. ACC is a mess. I don't even try AI races anymore and simply run practice laps. Rf2 used to be great, but something happened somewhere along the line to change that. Raceroom is supposed to be pretty good, but I never had any luck with their AI. I'd say it sits in second on my list.

 

[onearmedbandit46]

Agreed with the comments on the Aggression Slider, it makes the most difference. I've had great battles at Nordschleife with everything from GT3's, Group C, open wheelers, road cars etc by adapting the aggression level to what is most suitable.

It would appear the op has had this pointed out to them by their last remark but not tried it yet. I would definitely suggest to stop imaging how this could help and to actually try it.

 

[echbesundduned]

I don't personally race on that track in AC, but I have had similar issues with the artificial slowdown on other tracks and found mods that have helped (Bathurst springs to mind as a recent example). Finding a mod is not exactly straightforward as the tagging depends on who is doing the mod. Here is an example of a set of tagged ones though: https://www.racedepartment.com/tags/ai-line/

You could also take the time to do your own lines. I have not done this personally, as I think I'd actually make the AI worse overall if they used my lines!

For the bumping, I don't have a solution, but I never found it too bad as they are still fairly predictable and I can usually tell if I'm going to get away with a manoeuvre before I attempt it

Most of us know that AI was never Assetto's strong point and it can get especially bad on narrow tracks like the Ring. But frankly I don't think any sim has managed to make an AI system that works properly on a wide variety of cars yet.

You can always tinker with racing lines and individual cars' AI settings in data.acd but I wouldn't expect too much.

AI, in Assetto Corsa, or any other SIM, is Combo dependent.
AI in Assetto is my favorite, does not mean it is always good, but it is the most satisfying to me.
If AI is important to you, then you will have to dig deeper. As opposed to other SIM where AI is what it is, few ajustement at best, mostly how fast and how aggressive, most are not even using the same physic as the driver car.
In AC, particularly with CM, the range of adjustment is almost unlimited, down to be able to create your own Al line and alter any characteristic on how they drive.
It will require a little effort on your side, but if it important for you, well worth the efforts.

You're not wrong. AC AI is the worst out there. It's like you've gotten onto a server where all the competitors are drunk & weaving around. As a driver, the one thing you can do to make it better is don't trap them on the wrong side of the driving line because they will stop at nothing to get back onto line.

Agreed with the comments on the Aggression Slider, it makes the most difference. I've had great battles at Nordschleife with everything from GT3's, Group C, open wheelers, road cars etc by adapting the aggression level to what is most suitable.

It would appear the op has had this pointed out to them by their last remark but not tried it yet. I would definitely suggest to stop imaging how this could help and to actually try it.

As far as I understand it, the aggression slider is only there to let them make moves that risk hitting the player if the player doesn't avoid it. So if you're in a class where "rubbing is racing" like btcc you can move it above 0%.

The main positive vs other games for me is that they just use the same physics, the speed an AI can leave a corner is identical to a player. It's not some prescripted route where you can't run the same line as them since they're using 120% as much horsepower/grip and you only win cause that route is not very optimal.

Thx to everyone for taking time to explain some things and give me some ideas. Will try to make my own AI line.

 

[echbesundduned]

@echbesundduned Well, they should not brake at corner exit, and if they do, it might have to do with what is happening in front of the car in question. Few years back, I ran the AIs quite regularly on Nords, and I've never experienced that issue. My impression was that they did fairly well through the first corners, and through Hatzenbach, but often a pile up would occur on "Flugplatz"

Other then that, to get a good race with the AIs remains a matter of "know your enemies".
Most important is to keep your line mid corner and on exit. The AIs will not yield should you run wide. On braking on corner entry, the AIs will at some point make a decision, whether they will yield and give you room to dive down the inside, or not. Once you see, that the AI in front of you is going for the Apex, do not try to force your way, as they will stick to their line. Also being on their quarter panel round the outside, they may cut you off on exit.
On start, it's best to wait until they are done with their signature steering wheel shuffle before you get going.

The one big annoyance would be their reluctance to ovetake you swiftly if you coast or happen to get on the grass, but they will rather brake instead and keep behind you. And they are much to easy to defend against once you are in front.

If I were to summon it up, I'd say the AI in Assetto Corsa is a tad to cautious and rather stubborn, but I always rather enjoyed racing them, although I rarely do nowadays.

Agree with all that. I get pushed of track on mid corner sometimes wich i don't understand because they have the line and all the space they need. They just start to act weird when you get bysides them like they're struggling to calculate how to drive.

 

[echbesundduned]

Since I only run offline, i've spent a great deal of time tinkering with the AI. In my experience, the Aggression slider is the biggest thing to tweak around with to get decent AI races. Problem is, what works for one mod doesn't for others so you have to take the time to find what works.

First thing I noticed is the aggression slider seems to impact how close cars will get to you and each other, which is why at times they will brake in strange ways if they enter a turn with a car in front of them, even if it's another AI car. Too low on aggression and they brake real early causing you to rear end them. Too high on aggression and they won't slow down when you brake ahead of them and just slam in to you. I also notice that with low aggression, they never want to pass me even when I leave an opening. Too high aggression makes the AI pretty much ignore you and just run you off the road even if you have the line. Now I don't mind this because it keeps me on my toes.

Then you have to take different mods into account. For instance, the GT4 mod from Guerilla mods is great to race against, even at 100% aggression. I can have clean battles for lap after lap. The RSS GT Pack is another story, I have to keep it around 95% or lower or it's a wreck fest. They wreck each other, they wreck me, it's just a mess. Don't know why there is a difference, but it is quite the difference is quite obvious.

And I won't even go into how the track, AI lines, AI Hints, etc. factor into all of this. I'll simply close by saying of all the racing games, I still have more fun against the AI with AC than any other. ACC is a mess. I don't even try AI races anymore and simply run practice laps. Rf2 used to be great, but something happened somewhere along the line to change that. Raceroom is supposed to be pretty good, but I never had any luck with their AI. I'd say it sits in second on my list.

That was a very good explanation of the aggression slider and makes sense. I'm gonna try to play around with it. For me it seemed like they push to hard on corner entry and have to brake on exits to make the corner. That's why i thought the aggression would not change anything. Thx for the time for writhing this comment.

Cheers

 

[Dethrone1427]

I have seen a few commenting on the aggression setting in CM. What has always confused me is an you design a race, cars, car skins, name the AI, driver skill then aggression - how does that relate to the main menu aggression setting? Is the main menu aggression setting the one that overrides the other UI setting? I now leave the race setup menu aggression setting to auto and set the main menu aggression setting to what I want, but I guess that makes all the cars the same aggression setting?

 

[Antony Snook]

This is coumoun with all sims made scince the 80's The best drivers seem to be off the pace and the worst are on it. Probably best to run a pack of fantasy cars under ficticious names

 

[Antony Snook]

Here is a idea have a sim race leage up against a feild of 50% AI teams and see who scores the most points Humans V AI

 

[Jodien]

There is no AI in AC. There are just cars visually on the track, doing random things like brake checking, pushing you off track when side by side, divebombing to death. It's worse than games from 90s. Man, they are braking down to crawl right at the apex of Copse. Then when you cleanly pass them, they ram you from behind in Maggots full top speed. What can we say?

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Man, they are braking down to crawl right at the apex of Copse.

Cannot really help with the 'pushing', but I have found some of the AI line mods can help significantly for corner speed e.g. for Silverstone see if this is any good for you:

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/silverstone-gp-faster-ai.31670/

 

[Stereo]

All there really is to say is you're looking at 90s games through rose tinted glasses, or don't mind if a game's AI weighs 1/10 as much as the player so they always lose in a collision

 

[onearmedbandit46]

There is no AI in AC. There are just cars visually on the track, doing random things like brake checking, pushing you off track when side by side, divebombing to death. It's worse than games from 90s. Man, they are braking down to crawl right at the apex of Copse. Then when you cleanly pass them, they ram you from behind in Maggots full top speed. What can we say?

Aggression slider helps a lot, I have incredibly close battles with the ai and don't experience any of the issues you describe.

 

[Jodien]

Aggression slider helps a lot, I have incredibly close battles with the ai and don't experience any of the issues you describe.

I don't think it has anything to do with aggression. Because AI cars simply don't have the ability to make a turn properly in a clean driving line. They can slam the brakes right at the apex when you are following just behind. Sometimes they don't even brake at all when coming to a hairpin ramming into you. Agression would not help these disappear. I am doing some races in Silverstone for instance. Starting from the back of the grid, I always watch several AI cars collide each other causing a big wreck in T1. Hillarious.