I am exited about Andretti coming into F1. But i see why it is not popular as money from F1 is split between teams. That means less money for Williams, HASS and other poor teams. If F1 increased revenue with only 20 teams they make more. And if another team comes in they make the same or less whitch is not enough. So small teams will be forced to sell to buyers or go broke and shut down. Then we will be back to 10 teams. Andretti have been in motorsport a long time and have conections like sponsors and money so i think they will mouve quickly to the front. And we will get American representation. But most American drivers have little interest in F1. But a American who is competative and has a shot at tittle will do a lot for the rating's in America.
Andretti to F1
- Thread starter Antony Snook
- Start date
"are you sure you know how to drive this thing?" ...
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F1 has never elicited much interest in the US for several reasons. F1 being an international series there is only one race for the entire country each year, for most fans it would be an inordinate trip no matter which track is selected; in Europe no matter where you live many races are only a relatively short distance away (British GP, French GP, German GP, Belgian GP, Spanish GP, Italian GP, Hungarian GP... all within a few hundred mile radius of a central point; in the US, west coast to east coast is 3500 miles). Most Americans will not be interested unless there is an "American" team, given the jingoistic attitude of this country that means a US produced car with a US engine and a US driver managed by US personalities. Another, oft overlooked, problem with F1 in the US is its secretive nature; for NASCARE, "Indycar", ALMS (or whatever it is today), etc. you can easily find what a car costs, how the prize money is distributed, what the drivers make ...F1 treats all this like a state secret; couple this with the inaccessibilty of F1 personalities to the general public and you have the perception of the series as a bunch of wealthy arrogant playboys who dictate all the terms, privately, under which they may deem to appear in your city, breeze into town, remain aloof, get a ton of money from teh locals, and leave.
Also there is much of the old "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" in the US - product recognition. While the modern NASCARE cars bear nothing in common with their "stock" counterparts, there is still major name recognition for Ford, Chevy, Dodge; for F1, everyone has heard of Mercedes, but how many over here drive a Ferrari or McLaren? ...much less the likes of Larousse, Minardi, Bennetton, Williams, AlphaTauri. If you're not already an F1 fan, this is all unknown.
The Andretti family has the background and connections to make this happen, and I hope they do. But unless they win the championship in their first season i don't predict much US interest in the project. This will probably be bigger news in Europe than here.
Also there is much of the old "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" in the US - product recognition. While the modern NASCARE cars bear nothing in common with their "stock" counterparts, there is still major name recognition for Ford, Chevy, Dodge; for F1, everyone has heard of Mercedes, but how many over here drive a Ferrari or McLaren? ...much less the likes of Larousse, Minardi, Bennetton, Williams, AlphaTauri. If you're not already an F1 fan, this is all unknown.
The Andretti family has the background and connections to make this happen, and I hope they do. But unless they win the championship in their first season i don't predict much US interest in the project. This will probably be bigger news in Europe than here.
Whilst falling over themselves to welcome Audi to the sport, F1's response to Andretti-Cadillac pairing is lukewarm to say the least.
When Audi officially announced its intention to enter F1 in 2026, F1's tops brass, including CEO Stefano Domenicali and MD Ross Brawn, were front of the queue to offer their corporate platitudes.
However, the news that Cadillac is partnering with Andretti in a bid to enter the sport doesn't even warrant a mention on the sport's official website, not a word.
While fans and the media greeted the announcement with enthusiasm, the brief statement from F1 itself appeared to suggest that the powers that be can barely contain their indifference.
At a time the US is set to host three rounds of the world championship, including one event solely promoted by the sport's owners, it is unfathomable as to why they appear intent on rejecting not only an American team - and now an American manufacturing giant - but a team bearing arguably one of the most celebrated names in motor sport.
Fans will be aware that manufacturers can (and do) come and go as they please, just look at Honda and Renault, and it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that at some point the sport could find itself as much in need of teams to make up the numbers as it did on circuits during the pandemic.
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Yes He was a joke in 1993 with retirements. But he was on Podeom at Imola"are you sure you know how to drive this thing?" ...
Andretti can not win the tittle in 1st season. But they may be more competative and a mid feild team. I read about Phill Hill (No relation to Grayham or Damon) He drove in the 50's for Ferrari becuse he felt American cars handeled poorly. Drive a car in England or anywhare in Europe and feel that stiff suspension carying grip and power through turns. Compare it to a American car with soft suspension and big (Geting smaller now) And heavy. Becuse American roads like here in Canada have pot holes. Due to climate Hot summers and cold winters that reach temperatures that European roads never face. PS America has 2 races and a third in Vegas this year. But its a nation almost as big as Europe itself.
His driving was never questioned, his commitment was. His teammate, Senna, even lauded his abilities and stated the car wasn't very good that year. But the rest of the team, and most of F1, deemed him not serious enough about participating; instead of moving to Europe and being with the team all season for testing and practice, he chose to stay in the US and hop over on the SST for the race weekends then return home. I've forgotten who was the test driver back then but he was lobbying the team to let him run the races since he was putting more time into the car each week than Andretti.
By comparison, Mansell came to CART that year, taking Andretti's seat at Newman-Haas. And won the championship.
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While I do not agree with F1's attitude, it is understandable, especially in light of the series arrogant and elitist attitude.
Whilst falling over themselves to welcome Audi to the sport, F1's response to Andretti-Cadillac pairing is lukewarm to say the least.
When Audi officially announced its intention to enter F1 in 2026, F1's tops brass, including CEO Stefano Domenicali and MD Ross Brawn, were front of the queue to offer their corporate platitudes.
However, the news that Cadillac is partnering with Andretti in a bid to enter the sport doesn't even warrant a mention on the sport's official website, not a word.
While fans and the media greeted the announcement with enthusiasm, the brief statement from F1 itself appeared to suggest that the powers that be can barely contain their indifference.
At a time the US is set to host three rounds of the world championship, including one event solely promoted by the sport's owners, it is unfathomable as to why they appear intent on rejecting not only an American team - and now an American manufacturing giant - but a team bearing arguably one of the most celebrated names in motor sport.
Fans will be aware that manufacturers can (and do) come and go as they please, just look at Honda and Renault, and it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that at some point the sport could find itself as much in need of teams to make up the numbers as it did on circuits during the pandemic.
There has never been a major US presence in F1. Good drivers, yes, but teams? no. Gurney's AAR Eagles made a good showing but were never very successful; Penske has dabbled a couple of times with even less success (he quickly found he couldn't throw his weight around in F1 as he does in US motorsport). And while Cadillac has had recent success in racing, and its road cars are more "sporty", it still has a century old reputation for huge luxury sedans, true American land barges; and it has not, to my knowledge, ever been involved in open wheel racing. So F1 looks at all this with a "wait and see" attitude.
And while there will be three US races (for how long?), there were years of the USGP East (Watkins Glen) and USGP West (Long Beach or that mickey mouse Vegas parking lot) which didn't stir much interest. A NASCARE fan has a couple dozen races each year scattered around the country, an Indycar fan almost as many, an F1 fan gets two or three at best.
I read about the F1 race this year at Vegas - a night race on a downtown street circuit. "Night race"? About as much as NASCARE night races - cars without headlights running in early evening on well lit tracks. Looking at all the hype so far, this will be less a race than another big Vegas act - gaudy, extravagant, overblown, a combination of Mardi Gras, the circus, and drunken gamblers on the Vegas strip. Want to bet there will be a bunch of showgirls in feather headdresses prancing in front of the pits?
I am so happy with an extra team. More please.
The test driver was Mika Hakkinen who replaced him at the final round in Adelaide. Mario has said he should of gone to another team. But his manager did not look into other drives. Living in America it was presumed he would not sick around. He could of found somewhere in Europe to live near factory and gone to America over winter.
There is a lot of people in F1 that are not happy First its small teams that the team will out race inside one to two years. Now Its Mercedes and Red Bull. F1 is a old boys club and Mario left the club a long time ago.
Yes F1 is a step up to the pinacle of racing not a step down which is Indycar.
Back then Indycar was still CART, which was seen as equivalent to F1. It was only after the CART/IRL split that it degenerated into the near spec car series of today.
F1 cars were roughly 400lb lighter, more nimble, with quicker acceleration and braking; CART had slightly better top speed, turbos, and massive ground effects; so overall lap times were similar. Which is why FIA would not allow the two series to run on the same tracks (you never saw CART at Monza or Silvertsone nor F1 at Road America or Laguna Seca).
Both Mansell and Andretti were seen as making sideways moves in their careers.
Thanks, I was too lazy to look it up and at my age memory is not to be relied upon. I do believe Hakkinen went on to some acclaim of his own.
The engine brand is just a name Cadilac is part of General Motors so it could be a re badged Ford. Take Ferrari its a V6 turbo so it could be a FIAT engine with the Ferrari logo.
Whilst falling over themselves to welcome Audi to the sport, F1's response to Andretti-Cadillac pairing is lukewarm to say the least.
When Audi officially announced its intention to enter F1 in 2026, F1's tops brass, including CEO Stefano Domenicali and MD Ross Brawn, were front of the queue to offer their corporate platitudes.
However, the news that Cadillac is partnering with Andretti in a bid to enter the sport doesn't even warrant a mention on the sport's official website, not a word.
While fans and the media greeted the announcement with enthusiasm, the brief statement from F1 itself appeared to suggest that the powers that be can barely contain their indifference.
At a time the US is set to host three rounds of the world championship, including one event solely promoted by the sport's owners, it is unfathomable as to why they appear intent on rejecting not only an American team - and now an American manufacturing giant - but a team bearing arguably one of the most celebrated names in motor sport.
Fans will be aware that manufacturers can (and do) come and go as they please, just look at Honda and Renault, and it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that at some point the sport could find itself as much in need of teams to make up the numbers as it did on circuits during the pandemic.
My Family came from England to Toronto in 1992. I went to Toronto Indy to give it a shot. And did not enjoy it like 3 trips to Montreal or one to Silverstone. The thing i liked was pit walk as i never did that at Silverstone or Montreal. Mansell was geting mobbed so i went over to Mario who was being ignored. We had a small chat. I had a March book that he would not sine as he did not like driving for March. Then he went to talk to some Italian Nuns. Yes Nuns at a Indy race.
This afternoon, just eight days into the New Year, Ben Sulayem took to social media once again.
"It is surprising that there has been some adverse reaction to the Cadillac and Andretti news," he tweeted, ensuring that Cadillac, Andretti, General Motors and F1 got the message by tagging them.
"The FIA has accepted the entries of smaller, successful organisations in recent years," he continued. "We should be encouraging prospective F1 entries from global manufacturers like GM and thoroughbred races like Andretti and others.
"Interest from teams in grown markets adds diversity and broadens F1's appeal."
Other than F1's continued pouring of cold water on the Andretti bid, which appears inexplicable when one considers how Liberty Media is seeking to increase the sport's popularity in the US, the main opposition comes from Mercedes and Ferrari, both of whom have doubted the long-term worthiness of the project while using the old cliche of seeking to protect the sport's DNA - somewhat ironic when one considers that the Andretti name is synonymous with motorsport.
Ben Sulayem's tweet suggests that this goes far deeper than Andretti, and is instead aimed at highlighting Liberty's increasing desire to tighten its control on the sport, and the apparent desire to somewhat sideline the governing body.
Indeed, today's tweet suggests that F1 2023 might be about more than budget caps, Max versus Mercedes and the rest.
A battle line appears to have been drawn.
"It is surprising that there has been some adverse reaction to the Cadillac and Andretti news," he tweeted, ensuring that Cadillac, Andretti, General Motors and F1 got the message by tagging them.
"The FIA has accepted the entries of smaller, successful organisations in recent years," he continued. "We should be encouraging prospective F1 entries from global manufacturers like GM and thoroughbred races like Andretti and others.
"Interest from teams in grown markets adds diversity and broadens F1's appeal."
Other than F1's continued pouring of cold water on the Andretti bid, which appears inexplicable when one considers how Liberty Media is seeking to increase the sport's popularity in the US, the main opposition comes from Mercedes and Ferrari, both of whom have doubted the long-term worthiness of the project while using the old cliche of seeking to protect the sport's DNA - somewhat ironic when one considers that the Andretti name is synonymous with motorsport.
Ben Sulayem's tweet suggests that this goes far deeper than Andretti, and is instead aimed at highlighting Liberty's increasing desire to tighten its control on the sport, and the apparent desire to somewhat sideline the governing body.
Indeed, today's tweet suggests that F1 2023 might be about more than budget caps, Max versus Mercedes and the rest.
A battle line appears to have been drawn.
"Cadilac is part of General Motors so it could be a re badged Ford" ....GM and Ford are completely different entities, competitors every step of the way.
Your visiting the pits is what I commented when comparing the aloofness of F1 and the openness of most US racing. Though Mario Andretti was never known for mingling with the public, especially before a race. Where other drivers were accessible, hanging out in the pit or paddock area, Andretti usually stayed in his motorhome til the last minute, went straight to the car, ran the race, left the car and after the minimum required interviews made a beeline back to the motorhome.
Nuns are people too, they're as likely to be auto racing fans as anyone else.
trichens
Premium
The more teams the better in my opinion... although we don't want to see "no hopers" entering just to make up numbers - well no more than we have at the moment.. If a new team meets the entry requirements then they should be allowed to enter. Existing teams shouldn't be allowed to have any sort of veto in that area.
Otherwise we have a "franchise" situation where anyone that wants to compete in F1 has to buy an existing team.
And talking of "no hopers" it's been 13 years since the constuctors chamionship has been won by any team other than Red Bull or Mercedes.
And since McLaren won in 1998 we have seen only Ferrari, Renault and Brawn as winners in the other years.
Oh... we had 11 teams as recently as 2016 so the ten team "limit" is hardly a long standing thing.
We also need to consider who "owns" F1?
And who "calls the shots" on F1 is operated as a "sport"?
Otherwise we have a "franchise" situation where anyone that wants to compete in F1 has to buy an existing team.
And talking of "no hopers" it's been 13 years since the constuctors chamionship has been won by any team other than Red Bull or Mercedes.
And since McLaren won in 1998 we have seen only Ferrari, Renault and Brawn as winners in the other years.
Oh... we had 11 teams as recently as 2016 so the ten team "limit" is hardly a long standing thing.
We also need to consider who "owns" F1?
And who "calls the shots" on F1 is operated as a "sport"?
Yes, there should be more teams, there should be no limit or set number of teams, and anyone whose car and driver meets regulations should be allowed to participate, up to the limit of the individual track. I lament the loss of privateers in F1, as well as in NASCARE and "Indycar". Originally F1 was based on national teams in national colors - green for England, red for Italy, silver for Germany, blue for France, yellow for Spain, etc. - but by the fifties that was disappearing and it became primarily manufacturer teams, though still with strong national pride, then the small constructors and more privateers appeared ...an Italian driver in a German car wins, what nation did that represent? Then in the sixties sponsorship appeared and national colors were superseded by sponsor colors. Which brings us to:
"We also need to consider who "owns" F1?
And who "calls the shots" on F1 is operated as a "sport"?"
As with every professional sport today, it is owned by the sponsors. Once any sport accepts sponsorship money it relinquishes control of that sport, the sponsor now dictates the rules and regulations, the venues, the schedules. Doesn't matter the sport - soccer, hockey, football, basketball, baseball, auto racing, even Olympics - follow the money and you'll find who runs the show.
As I've elsewhere noted, Frank Williams was once asked if F1 is about business or racing and replied, "Formula One is a big business that happens to go racing every two weeks".
Mike Helton was asked if NASCARE would race on a new track recently opened and replied, "If they would like us to appear in their market...." (?? "appear in their market"?, what about "race on their track"?).
The Olympics, once staunch traditionalists of their sports, have besmirched their image with the likes of "Olympic Beach Volleyball" and "Olympic Skateboarding". All because that will attract more profits ...er, "viewers".
Ultimately once sponsorship is involved everything else becomes secondary to profit.
(But at least F1 has not been hit as badly as US motorsport. It is still just "Formula One Racing", not the "DHL F1 Series"; it still races at Monza and Silverstone, not at "Heineken Road Course" or "Pirelli Speedway"; the races are still the German Grand Prix and French GP, not "Rolex 200" or "Lenovo 300".)
