Another one of those.. (hopefully not)

Tomas Torasen · Dec 27, 2015

Like the title says, lets not make this into another one of those.. threads that is my sim vs. your sim type of "discussions".

I was really into netKar, because of the amazing physics (to my taste). I had high hopes for assetto corsa because of this, but to be honest I cant recognize any netKar physics in AC. It's just not at that level of fidelity.

But.. back in netKar days alot of people wanted me to try rFactor 1 and said that it had very good physics. I tried it several times, different cars and so on and I could never get a good feeling from it. Even with that FFB-tweak everyone used. I guess it's just not my kind of style.

So the difficult question, what I want to ask from you guys who tried and is using both.. how would you explain rfactor2 physics and FFB? Many say it's better than AC. I wouldnt rank AC as very good, although obviously better than arcade titles like NFS. I would personally rank iRacing just a tad higher than AC, for my own preference.

So how would you explain rfactor physics and ffb for me? I would like to hear before considering buying it.

Gijs van Elderen · Dec 27, 2015

Tomas Torasen said:
I would like to hear before considering buying it.

Indeed, everybody has it's own preferences.

But you can try the demo for free on steam.

or

rFactor 2 Demo Installer
Mediafire.com | Mirrors - 882 MB

Niki Đaković · Dec 27, 2015

You know, you have demo provided by ISI so you can try this yourself.
http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/rf2dl/

P.S. Have you ever tried LFS?
p.s.s Gijs you ninja.

kamackeris · Dec 28, 2015

Regarding the demo... I tried it and HATED it! I mean really hated it! But I kept reading about how good it was and took the plunge and bought the game and it was the best decision I ever made

Kenny Paton · Dec 28, 2015

kamackeris said:
Regarding the demo... I tried it and HATED it! I mean really hated it! But I kept reading about how good it was and took the plunge and bought the game and it was the best decision I ever made

I gotta agree with you there regarding the demo not a good advert for the game.

xnorb · Dec 28, 2015

I'm in the same boat as kamackeris and Kenny.
The demo was just "meh" for me, but really liking rF2 so far.

But of course with my cheap G27 wheel and my little experience in simracing i'm not the one to answer your question regarding physics / FFB in comparison to other titles.

Tomas Torasen · Dec 28, 2015

I bought the basic game only. Downloading some mods and the game now and will try out some cars. The content in the demo didnt excite me enough to install it.

Will be back with my impressions

Ace King · Dec 28, 2015

Without a doubt rF2 should be installed on every serious sim racer's pc!

kamackeris · Dec 28, 2015

Ace King said:
Without a doubt rF2 should be installed on every serious sim racer's pc!

amen brother

Tomas Torasen · Dec 29, 2015

So my impressions, if anyone is interested =) The feeling of the rubber meeting the road over to the FFB in some cars is absolutely superb! I do feel though that the physics is off in some way, hard to explain. What the physics is and the transfer of that to the FFB is perfect and very satisfying though. It's better than AC to my preference.

Graphics.. barely acceptable. Really bad, which is a shame.

Sounds, much better generally than AC!

I couple questions:
Do you guys use TC at a low level for all cars? I tried the vintage formula cars (67-69 I think) and they are somewhat over the top difficult to me, to handle with all aids off. I get around in them if I drive very safe, but pushing them is almost impossible for me Maybe I'm just not used to the physics model compared to AC?
Are there any graphical mods that drastically improve graphics?

David O'Reilly · Dec 29, 2015

@Tomas Torasen
Traction control. Its entirely up to you and what you want from the sim. Many drivers use it.
Personally I didn't want to have to unlearn bad habits of mashing the throttle so I never do.
Throttle control, short shifting etc. Controlling the car on corner exit is something I dont want to outsource.

By the times of your posts it seems its less than 24 hours so far.
I would recommend persistence.
Ideas: in game settings; Maybe try throttle sensitivity at say 65% (it changes the progression of the throttle, you will see its shape on the graph.Put some rubber on the road. (load some AI accellerate real road and time, have a coffee and come back).
TacticsAlso let yout tyres get some heat.
Car set up Raise (lengthen) some of the lower gears. Soften rear springs a click or two.
Work/learn your way around it! its more rewarding in the end.

Edit Technique. Walter Rohrl had a fabulous mental tool to learn the technique. He imagined a piece of string tied from the bottom of the steering wheel to the throttle pedal. So full throttl;e was only available with a straight wheel. More lock meant less throttle and vice versa. It teaches the skill.

Hash_V8 · Dec 29, 2015

"I tried the vintage formula cars (67-69 I think) and they are somewhat over the top difficult to me"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep me too, some even say too hard, I use to be terrified of them, but RF2 is a learning tool, after a few months I was flying around in historical formulas, after not even being able to do a lap, I had enougher "moment" last weekend, a little chat with some insane aliens, I thought was at edge of what I could do, after some words and tips I was knocking 2 secs of my regular times, it comes in steps, just try to keep frustration down, the skippy and MX5 mod fantastic cars to race and learn.

Emery · Dec 30, 2015

Tomas Torasen said:
Do you guys use TC at a low level for all cars? I tried the vintage formula cars (67-69 I think) and they are somewhat over the top difficult to me, to handle with all aids off. I get around in them if I drive very safe, but pushing them is almost impossible for me Maybe I'm just not used to the physics model compared to AC?
Are there any graphical mods that drastically improve graphics?

I use no aids for authenticity. Cars that have built-in aids will automatically apply them.

Take the Eve/Spark F3 and go online with F3 Rookies (DurgeDriven's server in Australia) or F3 Fanatics (Bryan Birtwell in Arizona) for helpful advice and setups.

As David said, turn down sensitivity for brake/throttle/clutch until it feels right.

As a general rule, the more powerful the car from ISI, the more need you have for correcting the default setup. Read the most excellent "Rfactor Advanced Car set up Guide V1.1" by that very friendly David O'Reilly

Graphics mods... not really, though there are some post-processing effects available.

Tomas Torasen · Dec 30, 2015

Emery said:
I use no aids for authenticity. Cars that have built-in aids will automatically apply them.

Take the Eve/Spark F3 and go online with F3 Rookies (DurgeDriven's server in Australia) or F3 Fanatics (Bryan Birtwell in Arizona) for helpful advice and setups.

As David said, turn down sensitivity for brake/throttle/clutch until it feels right.

As a general rule, the more powerful the car from ISI, the more need you have for correcting the default setup. Read the most excellent "Rfactor Advanced Car set up Guide V1.1" by that very friendly David O'Reilly

Graphics mods... not really, though there are some post-processing effects available.

I really had no problems with the one you mention, either that or the F2 version. The F1 version was a handful though, to the point that I cant really catch much that happens but rather have to drive super smooth. It gives me the "wanting" to slide it around and push it a little, but as soon as it goes a little unstable it's not much I could do.

I'll try some online stuff later, I didnt even check it out yet. Have a hot date for tonight so will have to get back to it tomorrow =)

Tomas Torasen · Dec 31, 2015

I've tried some more cars now.

Some things I cant really understand. Why is the steering so unresponsive in low speed? I have to turn the wheel very much to get the car to turn just a little, almost feels like the steering is lagging. A real car doesnt feel like that at all. Ok that there could be a difference in added aerodynamical grip, but the difference in responsiveness shouldnt be that dramatic.

Also, whats up with the pendulum effect? Yes you can get a snap if you provoke it, but it seems to be there in all cars way overdone. If you just change direction one time the car shouldnt violently sway back in a pendulum effect back and forth, unless there is some dramatic idiotic car setup errors or parts missing in the car.

Seems to me they tried to make the sim a little too difficult to perhaps please some sim racers that think more difficult equals realistic?

I still do like many parts of the physics and FFB though, it's very direct and telling to me in some parts, just wierd in these areas I described. I checked that all aids is off and steering sensitivity is set to zero.

It has some very nice potential in the FFB department. Maybe they will work on the physics a bit more.

Ace King · Dec 31, 2015

Tomas Torasen said:
I've tried some more cars now.
Why is the steering so unresponsive in low speed? I have to turn the wheel very much to get the car to turn just a little, almost feels like the steering is lagging.

Make sure your "speed sensitivity" is set to "0" in your controller options as this can dramatically affect your low speed turning!

Tomas Torasen · Dec 31, 2015

It's at "0". What is steering ratio? It's set at it's default "20".

JeffL · Dec 31, 2015

The higher the steering lock ratio the more responsive.

Hash_V8 · Dec 31, 2015

"Seems to me they tried to make the sim a little too difficult "

Sorry dude common misconception, the cars are the most naturally handling cars on a computer screen, no need to take my word either this is repeated at both top level sim racing and in commercial applications,the "snapping" sensation I feel in almost every sim except rf2 (especially cars with newer CPM).

To me with your low speed FFB issues sounds very clear to me that you are heavily "clipping", and missing the detail thats telling you where grip is at, get the pedal plugin to show FFB forces and adjust so not clipping, as I post this Im hoping online to do some inline sixes, feel free to join and i'll show you a whole server that have no issues what so ever with "pendulum" effect, in fact you will see the fastest guys in these porches (much like the skippys) practically drifting for their fastest times, they so close to edge aliens, that they very monetarily step over it, its amazing watching them and the cars.

That's enougher test of great sim, the HUGE variance between drivers, theres so many levels, thats why can be hard to find matches for racing in rf2 compared to others,Ive noticed less sim in games, the more the skill gaps are a lot closer, in rf2 gaps are huge between even a fast guy and a genuine alien, all IMO of course.

Edit: sry not exactly booming in MP at mo like normal at this time, its almost like ppl have something better to do on 31st of dec.

Mat Holloway · Dec 31, 2015

Tomas Torasen said:
I've tried some more cars now.

Some things I cant really understand.

Hey Tomas, those particular cars have not seen an update for about 3 years. This means they are missing almost all of the features released since then. Essentially it's going to be missing a ton of feel.
It still has more than enough to go around though. If you take the Brabham out, you will notice a richer driving experience. It still has that pendulum effect, but a combination of correct driving and some minor setup tweaks, like increasing damper stiffness will pay dividends. The historics have taken a back seat for a while so I'm really hoping they get updates out for them soon. The F3s in particular are very popular online, for those that partake

The most common issue new rF2 drivers face is acclimatisation. Ensuring you have the correct steering rate and power is critical to the output from the wheel. Too much power and it will feel great on the fast corners but you lose everything when you slow. Instead, aim for maybe 70% power where you still get a lot of weight on the wheel at high speed, but low is nimble instead of sloppy.

If you want to experience the latest tech, I'd recommend the newly updated 2012 F1 cars.