Are you happy with the latest tire model

[Rupe Wilson]

Do you think the tire model could be better,
After racing online i cant help but think the tire model is lacking in certain aspects,
It has loads of grip then all of a sudden it like it lets go, but the feel i get when it lets go is strange, its so hard to catch it..
by no means am i an expert driver, but i do find other sims a lot easier to control once the cars is sliding,
maybe the other sims have it wrong and this is correct but it just feels odd to me at times.

have you experienced the same or have a different feel

 

[Allan Ramsbottom]

i agree totally,and i dont think the tyre model does much to get certain car/tyres up to temp..

 

[Stereo]

I think the FFB during slides is not helping at a certain point, but I'm using a DFGT so it might just fundamentally not have the ability to do natural slides. The tires themselves behave realistically in any circumstances I've tested.

 

[Albert McSaltens]

i'm gonna refer to GT cars:

In my opinion the current tyre model offers less feel than previous v7 TM

There is less grip than it should be,, even the soft tyre is a bit down comparing to pirelli hard tyre they use in Bllancpain.
Also the heating model is way to low, it's almost imposible to heat up the hard compound wich is what we should be doing , since in real life it's what they use, and it works under cold temps at SPA and hot temps at hungary on july.

Also another thing i never understood is why when the tyre reaches 115º 120º, it drives like if you were on ice, this do not happen in real life like this, they lose a little bit of grip when overheat but not too much, what happens is that the wear is a lot higher when overheating the tyre. somehting im not sure if that happens in TM10 yes there is grainning but not much more wear.

In my opinion for GT3 tyres, we should just have the hard compound, with a heating profile that works under most circunstances, with enough durability for a 1h stint. with similar if not a bit more grip than the current soft compound. and the wear profile should be like. when the tyre is fresh new, you have couple laps of max grip, then lose half a seconf of pace, and plateau till the end of the 1h stint, after that start the cliff.

And the tyre should be more sensitive to overdriving the tyre and overheating, in terms of wear. It should reward a little bit more those who take care of their tyres

 

[Mapu]

opinions don't help on that matter, just saying and after reading some articles I do trust Kunos with their take on tyre simulation since they are the experts.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

thanks for the reply guys,
Having never driven these cars for real, with said tires, so i cant say one way or they other if what is correct or if there interpretation of a tire mode is realistic. i just reply on kunos to have it correct, or do it to the best of their abilities.
As they have stated every thing is scratch built, And will be constantly updated (which i like).

So i will look at my tire temps and see if that is what is happening to me,
I know the front wheel drive cars will always have colder rears as they are doing less work.
but i just assumed the rear wheel drive cars would not suffer from this, regardless of compound used. maybe temps could be altered in game to allow for the use of different tires.. is there a ideal temp for each tire (track +ambient) then when running a server..

I love the FFB when the cars are driving normally, but yes when traction is broken maybe this also has something to do with it over the actual tires, but i don't know what i would adjust to make that better, without spoiling the feel i have now..

Feedback is always welcome in a post, as long as its constructive.

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

What wheel (and settings) are you using?

 

[After_Midnight]

When I've a look to the YT channels of Dookie@Abgefahren or Marcel Pfister I know one thing:
Its not the game. Its NOT the BAD GAME. Its just me. I'm not able to drift at all.
I don't have the skill to do this.

 

[Albert McSaltens]

opinions don't help on that matter, just saying and after reading some articles I do trust Kunos with their take on tyre simulation since they are the experts.

i trust race drivers and race engeneers

 

[After_Midnight]

i trust race drivers and race engeneers

...with what results?

 

[Mapu]

i trust race drivers and race engeneers

but you do realize that Kunos is working with them too?

 

[Albert McSaltens]

but you do realize that Kunos is working with them too?

so do you think the tyres are perfect? XD just by knowing in real life they do faster laptimes on hard tyres than in AC soft tyres it's enough to know somehting is off.

Aris himself stated than in real life they got more sticky tyres than in AC

 

[Stereo]

Aris himself stated than in real life they got more sticky tyres than in AC

Yeah, which is irrelevant to this thread since it's about the tire model, not about the brand of tires they chose to include.

 

[Matheus Machado]

The fact AC is very sensitive to pressure changes is really close to real life imo.
Underheated tires provide reasonable grip if the pressures are correct and if they overheat they are absolutely gone until they are back to operating temps. That behaviour translates both in road tires and racing slicks as far as my experience in setting race cars up for a local race team.

Also, the way you have to manage how aggressive you drive is just like driving karts when the temperature is high. If you slide the tires too much they will be gone for a lap or two until they provide optimum grip again. That behaviour is similar from top modeled rF2 tires (even though pressure there is kinda glitchy).

What bothers me in the current driving model is the uniform grip under the whole track, but that's related the lack of a car dependant dynamic grip.

I've never found the slides unrealistic as you describe. Do you experience them in select amount of cars?
Although I can constantly relate to it in AMS, but there it happens because of very apparent physics limitations.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

I am no race car driver or tire expert
After doing the rookie Abarth race yesterday I felt exactly what the op discribed.
My opinion regarding it is that the overall ffb is pretty good but after intial turn in the lateral body weight transfer overpowers all the tires details and just gives you a heavy springy feel till it snaps off and goes light after grip is lost.....very hard to read when your reaching the max. grip.
Ive had this issue in several other sims but was easily fixed with lowering the lateral ffb strength slider. From my limited time in ac ive only seen an overall ffb, road feel and slip angel slider. Is this possible to adjust this setting ingame or do I have to go file digging?

 

[Matheus Machado]

My opinion regarding it is that the overall ffb is pretty good but after intial turn in the lateral body weight transfer overpowers all the tires details and just gives you a heavy springy feel till it snaps off and goes light

That is a car handling characteristic. The abarth is massively loaded on the front axle and it tends to have massive grip on the turn in. Grip is a result of load times a coefficient, so if it has no load at the rear, therefore it shouldn't have grip. Usually you have to adjust the driving style to account for that sudden turn in and compensate it with the throttle.

Setups also help but it is too specific on a track to track basis to give a general advice. Maybe a locked front differential helps with it, but it can be substantially slower.

The FFB doesn't have a lateral slider afaik. Maybe checking the box that enables the understeer ffb effect gives the same results.

 

[Aristotelis]

For the record since people can't obviously lose time following your story in the AC official forums.

i trust race drivers and race engeneers

Funy how you find and trust whatever race engineer or race drive you see fit, instead of the ones we let try our sim (without paying or sponsoring them) or the hundreds that practice on their own with our sim, before every Nurburgring race (just check any random FB racer profile so to say), or the fact that Kunos dev can drift pretty much anything they can put their hands on in real life.

so do you think the tyres are perfect? XD just by knowing in real life they do faster laptimes on hard tyres than in AC soft tyres it's enough to know somehting is off.

Nothing is perfect, we try hard.
But your statement is false. We simulate cars and tyres from 2014 to 2016. It's not our goal to keep up with whatever happens in real time in the GT3/GT2 championship. Just because you can't reach the laptimes, doesn't mean some laptimes are impossible to make, as other simracers have demonstrated to you many times in the official forums.
Not even officially licensed F1 games, follow current year performances.

Aris himself stated than in real life they got more sticky tyres than in AC

I'd really appreciate if you don't quote me on things I haven't said or completely out of context.
Again the discussion was on the late 2016 and current 2017 tyres and car evolutions.

For all the rest of the people that think AC tyre model is too unforgiving, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. We've always had one of the most forgiving tyre models in the industry, up to the point that often hardcore simracers were complaining it was too forgiving. As a matter of fact, AC is one of the best sims for drifting. We think that with v10 we are in a very good position. Also keep in mind that race cars, depending on the category, have also other features (aero, inertias, etc) that can make a car more nervous, all properly simulated by our engine.

There's always room for improvement, I always read and take inputs, but permit me to not agree with some of the criticism in this thread.

 

[Eric Rowland]

Does anyone know if this table of pressures and temps is legit and up to date and/or is useful? Has anyone tested this data?

 

[Albert McSaltens]

Yeah, which is irrelevant to this thread since it's about the tire model, not about the brand of tires they chose to include.

completely relevant, cause it's the tyre model

 

[Albert McSaltens]

For the record since people can't obviously lose time following your story in the AC official forums.


Funy how you find and trust whatever race engineer or race drive you see fit, instead of the ones we let try our sim (without paying or sponsoring them) or the hundreds that practice on their own with our sim, before every Nurburgring race (just check any random FB racer profile so to say), or the fact that Kunos dev can drift pretty much anything they can put their hands on in real life.


Nothing is perfect, we try hard.
But your statement is false. We simulate cars and tyres from 2014 to 2016. It's not our goal to keep up with whatever happens in real time in the GT3/GT2 championship. Just because you can't reach the laptimes, doesn't mean some laptimes are impossible to make, as other simracers have demonstrated to you many times in the official forums.
Not even officially licensed F1 games, follow current year performances.


I'd really appreciate if you don't quote me on things I haven't said or completely out of context.
Again the discussion was on the late 2016 and current 2017 tyres and car evolutions.

For all the rest of the people that think AC tyre model is too unforgiving, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. We've always had one of the most forgiving tyre models in the industry, up to the point that often hardcore simracers were complaining it was too forgiving. As a matter of fact, AC is one of the best sims for drifting. We think that with v10 we are in a very good position. Also keep in mind that race cars, depending on the category, have also other features (aero, inertias, etc) that can make a car more nervous, all properly simulated by our engine.

There's always room for improvement, I always read and take inputs, but permit me to not agree with some of the criticism in this thread.

How on earth are yout pretending me to belive the race engeeneers you talk to, i can only trust those i know.

As for the laptimes for gt3, 'it's obviously wrong comparing a soft compound to a hard compound in terms of pace, your hard tyre should match real life hard tyre. not your soft tyre ,for similar grip and wear,

Also the heat profile (gt3/gt2) do you think it is right?, cause while in real life they use the same tyre compound at 30º+ temperatures with 45º road temps on the summer, and their tyre works just fine, they also work at spa at night 5ºtemps, In AC the gt3 tyres have such a narrow temperature ( air/road) window they can race with.

In the other hand the porsche cup car has a hard compound with a heat profile that i think is more int he ball park it should be also for GT3· gT2 cars. I would find more adecuate if you use it in gt3 cars too. instead of the current one.

And please also take a second look at the tyre model when tyre overheat cause in real life tyres do not feel like driving on ice when going at 120º, they should wear faster, but not drive like on ice. i don't know if i explain myself properly..hope you get what i mean