Assetto Corsa 1/Competizione FFB comparision

[Echo291191]

Just to prove it to myself that im not going crazy, and to give the devs an idea of whats happening with my wheel and probably a lot of other users who are having difficulty, I have recorded a comparison of my wheel in AC and ACC.

As you can see, AC1 FFB instantly responded to oversteer, ACC is very slow and sluggish, only seems to go 1 speed.
Can anyone confirm they are experiencing the same thing? and does this happen to people who are loving the FFB?, just so we can clarify if there are problems, or if this is just how the FFB is currently.

Edit: Im not trying to bash ACC, I love AC, and was completely on the hype train, but in its current state its not enjoyable for me, I cant drive with so much lack of information.

 

[Neilski]

Wow, that's a pretty dramatic difference. What's the wheel?
(And btw, did you report it in the ACC support forum?)

Edit: my wheel (G27) isn't so responsive in the first place. Not sure I entirely like the FFB but it's nothing I can put my finger on yet. I have a heck of a time catching slides but that might be the tyre model or something else...

 

[Echo291191]

T500, quite a powerful wheel, yes I have reported it and have been speaking about it for the last few days.

 

[Jorge Villar]

Aris said they are looking into the problems with the T500. I own one myself and I also have this problem with catching slides, sometimes I do manage to do it, but some others I just don't get any feedback before they happen.

 

[Echo291191]

No I dont think its a problem with T500, I thought it was, but everyone seems to be having the same thing, I think this FFB is a feature rather than a problem, IMO I just cant feel the rear of the car at all, its so slow and sluggish like its being dragged through porride.
Some wheels might convey the oversteer stronger, but for me its not.

 

[RaceNut]

Having followed the various FFB discussions in the ACC forums, I'm under the impression that the Dev's haven't ruled out implementing more FFB settings but, they want to keep feedback as close to being on a level playing-field as possible and that requires keeping things simple in terms of user-adjustments. Basic physics-based FFB is what we get in ACC (for now) and I think that makes sense in terms of player-feedback at this point in development but, Kunos still has to sort out the most useful information based on patterns.

I'm using an OSW (small Mige SimuCube SynCos) and yes, I find the FFB in ACC to be very dampened compared to that of AC but, the biggest difference between them are in regard to the absence of the under-steer effect (I really don't like the drop-off in AC). If Kunos keeps the FFB close to what they have now, I'd prefer a bit more progressive build of resistance leading up to grip-loss with the option to add some slip-based high-frequency vibrations but, I think I'm definitely in the minority (probably alone).

At any rate, I'm pretty sure it'll work out in the end and there are signs that Kunos are studying the differences in how the current FFB works with different wheels and may plan to provide some optimized presets. It may be the best way forward if they want to work from a baseline in FFB where the data and player feedback are truly an integral part of ACC development.

 

[Hiro Abe]

I agree that this is not a particular wheelbase issue - I have a CSW v2.5. The ffb is the only thing I'm not digging with ACC. I just don't feel really connected to what the car is doing on the track like R3E or rF2. I find it curious how some say the complete opposite. I have my setting at 75% gain. I haven't played with the setting too much. Wondering if the trick is a gain per wheelbase setting. I'm also struggling with steering input. Initially, it was way too sensitive. I've got it improved but it's still not quite right. I have my CSW set on auto and in-game... uh... crud - not remembering what I have it set at currently. Somewhere around 540 I believe.

 

[Jivesauce]

It's interesting how varied the opinions are with the FFB. There are clearly some people having what appear to be technical issues, but there is also a lot of subjectivity to it. It feels really great to me on my G920, better than AC1, but I'm relatively new to sim racing, I've only been able to play ACC for about an hour so far, and I didn't know the track going in, so I'm wondering if I'm just too slow (about a 2:00 flat at the end of the hour) for my opinion to really be valid. It's interesting reading all the different takes on it regardless, I hope they get it working for everyone.

 

[Case_]

I've mentioned it in the review thread, but my original impression of ACC FFB has been absolutely terrible, the worst FFB of all the sims I played in recent years by far. No real information about what the car is doing, just this overwhelming wheel weight or lateral force or whatever it is.

Over time, I feel like I got somewhat used to it, and it also feels like the 0.1.1 update did improve on the FFB slightly (but I'm willing to admit that might just be placebo effect at work). I still think the wheel weight is very overwhelming and drowns out the rest of the FFB information, but at least I'm now somewhat able to "extract" the rest of the data and use it fairly effectively instead of resorting to drive purely on visual cues alone. Due to this, I am at least somehow able to understand where the people praising the FFB in ACC might be coming from, whereas before I just thought they're out of their minds (I didn't really, but it was certainly very confusing to see the praise compared to what I was presented with in my hands.)

I like the FFB a lot more in light or medium rain (or even in storm, though the racing tends to turn into skidfest in storm conditions), simply because that wheel weight goes away noticeably so it's quite easier to feel the car.

I will try doing something like what's in the video. I have the T300, though, and the devs only acknowledged issues with T500 specifically. So I'm not sure if there might be some issue with some(?) T300 wheels or if my personal taste in FFB is really so different from many people.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I am with Martin on that.
Completely lost interest in ACC after driving Huracan back and forth in AC and ACC. Haven't even clocked 2 hours total. That's on OSW.
If it wasn't Kunos would have refunded already.

 

[Jivesauce]

I wonder if there is any possibility that, like someone else mentioned above about their G27, my G920 just doesn't have the force to provide that overwhelming wheel weight that some people are experiencing with their higher end wheels.

Edit: I will say, I do think that even on my wheel the weight is higher than it was in AC1, but not to the point of drowning out other feedback; in fact, I actually prefer it as I always found AC1 to be a little light for my liking but assumed it was a result of my lower-end wheel.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

After getting used to no LUT table my G27 feels pretty good in ACC. Maybe because it's low strength wheel...

I think this FFB "dampening" is likely more realistic, so it feels right after getting used to it, but one thing that i really dislike about it is how speed sensitive it is. It reminds me of AC's "gyro".

At low speeds a small but fast countersteer usually has no problems (works similarly to AC), but do that at higher speeds and suddenly there is this resistance to movement. And it has to be some kind of "effect", as during slides both my hands and tyre force pushes in the same direction while steering rack just says "nope, you can't do that".

Besides countersteer, this also creates problems during waving on straights. Actually in first hour of play i crashed many times, 90% of which were on straights! While trying to get a feel of the car or heat up the tyres. The FFB just slowed down car response too much.

I'm not crashing now, but where AC FFB talked to us, ACC's FFB sounds like a brat that needs to shut up. I don't think it will be easy (or even possible) to create FFB that's both realistic and talkative. But more FFB options would help balancing that. And on that note, i'd love to get a checkbox to turn off the "slip effect" too.

 

[Mark Oates]

I agree with @Hiro Abe , I have the same wheel cs2.5 / f1 wheel / set at 85 ff. I too don't seem to be able to feel the rear end oversteering. I have 5 or 6 hours driving acc (drive 1:56s) but the rear end is hard to feel and practically uncatchable. I eventually turned my wheel from 900 to 700. I can catch it sometimes and can feel the edge of when the rear is about to go...but I agree it's not as even close to being like AC right now.

 

[Daggerman]

My opinion of the ACC ffb at the moment is absolute garbage.

I don’t really care that they have “gone a different route” in terms of ffb methodology, in my opinion it’s a compete wrong turn and for all their talk of “making improvements” to the physics engine, it’s completely meaningless if you can’t feel it though your wheel. I have a G27 BTW.

I can’t feel hardly anything the car is doing, just small effect when getting sideways, which feels strange and not natural anyway.

AC ffb is class leading, this isn’t.

 

[Neilski]

I felt that way at first but perhaps it's just more subtle than the AC FFB. I can now feel more than I could before and in particular I feel like I'm able to tell (combination of FFB and audio?) when I've turned the wheel past the point of maximum grip. (NB: "more subtle" may not mean more physically realistic - no idea about that.)

 

[Case_]

Yeah, but I feel like the point of FFB is to *not* be kinda subtle. It serves a distinct purpose - to tell you what the car is doing, so if it is subtle, it's not doing its job well, IMO. The forces felt through the wheel might be very close to realistic this way, but I don't think the point of FFB in sims is to be the most realistic, it should help the driver drive the car the best it can.

But there are obviously two different takes on the FFB - some people want to feel exactly what the drivers feel through the wheel as realistically as possible, and some, like me, want the FFB to be as helpful as possible. Neither is intrinsically correct nor wrong, but it can obviously become an issue when you can't choose between the two to suit your preference. Which I think is why most sims go for something kinda inbetween, with various options to further tweak the feel.

 

[Neilski]

some, like me, want the FFB to be as helpful as possible

I'm pretty much in that camp myself, given the huge disadvantage simracers are at in terms of missing info (g-forces, mainly). However, every new sim is a different "language" and of course you have to learn it, which takes some time. What I'm finding is that there's a lot more information there than I initially realised.
I haven't yet gone back to AC to see if the same info was lurking there all along (but I really doubt it). [688 hours in AC vs 13 hours in ACC. I think I'd have noticed it by now in AC? ]

 

[Case_]

What I'm finding is that there's a lot more information there than I initially realised.

Yep, see my first post in this thread

 

[Echo291191]

Yeah I think what the devs don't realise, is that we are not driving a GT3 car IRL! We don't have all the g forces and vibrations we would get from the real thing, so the wheel might feel as close to reality but the problem is, you cant feel a damm thing when you loose rear grip.

The wheel just moves way way too slow, even in real cars, when the rear steps out, the steering wheel will change direction and move around very quickly just like it did in AC1, the FFB currently looks and feels like it's being dragged through honey.

 

[Case_]

BTW, I'm pretty sure I'm getting into placebo territory, but I just tried the FFB after today's 0.1.2 update and I would swear it got a bit more pronounced still.

It's so frustrating there's no objective way to compare these things over time... All we have are our own completely unreliable impressions and memories...