PC1 bManic's FFB experiment - Thrustmaster TX / T300

UPDATE! I changed Relative Adjust Bleed to 0.3 instead of 0.45 (which could cause some oddities)

UPDATE2!: More and more people with other wheel brands have tried the settings and it's starting to look as if these may work for quite a few wheels. T500 is confirmed as working pretty well, Fanatec GT2/GT3RS v2 also confirmed as working better than defaults and one Fanatec CSW v2 also happy.

UPDATE3!: There seems to be some confusion about Steering Arm Angle and what it is. It is NOT the same as Steering Ratio, which is a VEHICLE SETUP parameter. Arm Angle can be found in the car garage menu, under the Force Feedback Tab (it's the middle tab, between Vehicle and Summary tabs), the last option on the first page is called Arm Angle. This is the one I mean. Everything in this thread is about Force Feedback, not about vehicle setups!

Update4!: Brandon Wright noticed quite a bit of spikes and odd behavior which seems to be related to the Relative Adjust Bleed parameter. It is possible that my value of 0.3 is still too large so if any of you guys are suffering from these spikes then try a lower setting. You can go as low as 0.05 until you lose the benefit of the Relative Adjust processing block.


Hi guys,

So I finally had some time to play the game and I've spent the whole day experimenting with a new way to squeeze the massive FFB dynamic range into a range that our consumer wheels can tolerate while getting as much information as possible from the FFB (meaning: no hard clipping).

I would love it if you Thrustmaster TX and T300 owners would try these settings. NOTE: You must follow these instructions TO THE LETTER or the experience will be different to mine. Feedback that is provided without following every single point to the letter will be useless and thus ignored.

Why? Because the FFB system in pCars is extremely flexible and thus complex. It is also highly dynamic which means that a single tiny tweak of a crucial parameter (like tire force / master scale multiplier, spindle arm angle or the ratio of Fx, Fy, Fz and Mz) will alter the system. Thus, if you want stronger or weaker forces, use your Thrustmaster Control Panel program to control this! Do NOT change the in-game settings to achieve this!

These are my Thrustmaster Control Panel gain settings:

Overall strength of all forces = 75%
Constant = 100%
Periodic = 0%
Spring = 0%
Damper = 0%

Auto-center settings = by the game (recommended)

Step 1)

Set your Thrustmaster Control Panel settings. You can use my settings to start with. These result in fairly heavy forces. A good workout but not impossible to drive with. If you are a masochist, set the strength to 100%. I often drive longer races with the strength set to 60%.

Step 2)

Start Project CARS and reset your wheel then do the wheel calibration again as follows:

a) turn wheel FULLY LEFT AND RIGHT.. all the way! My TX wheel requires me to truly wrestle the wheel to get it 100%, otherwise it stops at 96%.

b) follow the 90 degree rotation to the letter.. this means you set your wheel so that it is physically pointing exactly 90 degrees to either left or right. Do NOT set it so that you get perfectly 900 or 1080 degrees here. Set it so that it is truly pointing 90 degrees to either side. For example, my wheel when set so that it is physically pointing 90 degrees results in a steering rotation of 882 degrees.

c) calibrate your pedals

d) configure your buttons

Step 3)

Make sure your FFB Strength in-game is set to 100/maximum! This is very important! It defaults to 75. Also make sure the FFB damping saturation setting is set to ZERO. It defaults to 25. (you find these options under the CONFIGURATION tab in the controls preferences)

Step 4)

Go into the "calibrate FFB" menu and set the following (parameters not mentioned should be left at default!):

Tire Force = 100

Deadzone Removal Range = 0.03
Deadzone Removal Falloff = 0.02

Relative Adjust Gain = 1.37 (sometimes it shows 137 and leaves the " . " out)
Relative Adjust Bleed = 0.30
Relative Adjust Clamp = 1.33 (sometimes it shows 133 and leaves the " . " out)

Scoop Knee = 0.12
Scoop Reduction = 0.08

Soft Clipping (Half Input) = 0.60
Soft Clipping (Full Output) = 1.79

Step 5)

Individual car setup FFB settings! I've only had time to test 3 cars but from these you can quickly extrapolate and get the general idea. The main idea is to have a Mz heavy setup and to set a good spindle arm angle and then to set a good Master Scale value so that the FFB "pushes" into the Relative Gain and Soft Clipping at proper levels. These usually end up in the 26 to 36 range, depending on how much down force the car produces or how heavy it is. Here are the settings for the 3 cars that tried:

<--- CAR SETUP - FFB TAB - --->

Lykan Hypersport:

Master Scale = 32

Fx = 68
Fy = 36
Fz = 74
Mz = 100

(note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

Steering Arm Angle = 2200

BMW Z4 GT3:

Master Scale = 28

Fx = 66
Fy = 44
Fz = 82
Mz = 100

(note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

Steering Arm Angle = 2000

Formula B:

Master Scale = 30

Fx = 68
Fy = 36
Fz = 74
Mz = 100

(note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

Steering Arm Angle = 2500
----------------------------------------------------------------------

That's it. You are done. Go into the game and enjoy pretty detailed FFB. To appreciate the full range of FFB I highly recommend turning off all driving aids. I'll add more cars to this thread once I have a chance to test some more.

NOTE!: I will NOT be providing FFB .xml files because they do not seem to work as expected. This is a complete system where every individual setting feeds into one another and thus becomes a quite complex thing. The general signal flow is like this (at least it used to be like this right before release):

Tire Force * Master Scale -> Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz -> Spindle Arm Angle -> Relative Gain -> Soft Clipping -> Scoop -> Tighten Center

As I've understood it, Relative Gain and Soft Clipping are non-linear functions and thus quite complex in nature. Even small input variations can cause quite a different feel in the wheel. Because there are two of these functions after one another and they feed an inherently non-linear device (your consumer wheel) you can probably appreciate how quickly things get complicated. You'll easily notice this by simply tweaking the Master Scale of each car or change the Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz relative ratios. Like I said in the beginning of the post, the main point is to squeeze as much "useful" information into the limited dynamic range of our consumer wheels and this means compressing the heck out of it.


You lucky s.o.b's with direct drive wheels can ignore all this and simply set pCars as fully linear and have a ridiculously awesome experience. You may still want to adjust the Fx, Fy, Fz and Mz settings like I have them above but disregard everything else (remove all soft clip and all relative gain and scoop stuff. Heck, I'd even remove tighten center).

Cheers!
bManic
 
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1) Is it possible that the infamous "setup bug" is still present? What happened is that car setups would randomly shuffle around some values (usually springs and dampers) causing some cars to behave very strange. The reason it is/was so infamous during alpha/beta testing was that nobody really nailed down a way to reproduce it. It was seemingly random and could happen during any time.

2nd possibility is that you had damaged your tires in the first corner and they went wonky.. but I doubt that's possible as the current damage amount / tire wear is really low (too low).

2) The rim makes a HUGE difference in how the FFB motor works. It's diameter and weight play a significant role in the performance of a consumer FFB wheel.

2nd possibility is that thrustmaster driver/wheel firmware is bugged (or the detection in pCars gets messed up when you change the rim). None the less, it's an interesting find. Keep investigating!
 
@bmanic I'm still getting lumpy steering on cornering, what can I do to sort that cheers

If you mean there is a lump right in the center of your wheel as you turn either way and the wheels passes the center 0 degree point then you need to increase the Deadzone Removal Falloff until the "lump" is gone. Don't confuse this with Deadzone Removal Range as the Falloff setting is just below it.

On my GT3RSv2 wheel, I had to increase the Falloff setting from default(.01) all the way to .10 to get rid of the lump in the center. It's smooth as it should be now.
 
I like how you numbered you observations: A and then 2. lol

A. I will have to watch for this again but I could have sworn that early on after the release I experienced something similar. Not 100% sure.

2. When I switch from my Formaula add-on rim to the GTE rim (TX wheel) I always make sure to recalibrate. I obviously have to reassign the button mapping as well. Did you recalibrate? I assume you didn't. Slight variations in wheel weight could be throwing things off.
 
If you mean there is a lump right in the center of your wheel as you turn either way and the wheels passes the center 0 degree point then you need to increase the Deadzone Removal Falloff until the "lump" is gone. Don't confuse this with Deadzone Removal Range as the Falloff setting is just below it.

On my GT3RSv2 wheel, I had to increase the Falloff setting from default(.01) all the way to .10 to get rid of the lump in the center. It's smooth as it should be now.
No, it's like I have too much feedback on cornering but it feels lumpy. I'm using Jack Spade 66% file
 
If you mean there is a lump right in the center of your wheel as you turn either way and the wheels passes the center 0 degree point then you need to increase the Deadzone Removal Falloff until the "lump" is gone. Don't confuse this with Deadzone Removal Range as the Falloff setting is just below it.

On my GT3RSv2 wheel, I had to increase the Falloff setting from default(.01) all the way to .10 to get rid of the lump in the center. It's smooth as it should be now.

There's a second possibility too. It's the Spindle Arm Angle option (or "Arm Angle" as it's called in the game) in the CAR SETUP FFB menu (last option). Many many many cars have it set "wrong" which makes the center of the wheel feel way too tight. A very good example is the Ginetta G40. It defaults to something like 1000 while it should be 2000 or more.
 
No, it's like I have too much feedback on cornering but it feels lumpy. I'm using Jack Spade 66% file

I have no idea as I do not use Jack Spade's .xml files at all. I can't drive with his FFB settings at all.

Remember, if you have any FFB .xml file installed, none of the FFB parameters in the car setup menu work! The only way to change the settings is through the .xml file. Or you can always delete the files to get the Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz and Arm Angle settings to work again (also SoP and Body).
 
I have no idea as I do not use Jack Spade's .xml files at all. I can't drive with his FFB settings at all.

Remember, if you have any FFB .xml file installed, none of the FFB parameters in the car setup menu work! The only way to change the settings is through the .xml file. Or you can always delete the files to get the Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz and Arm Angle settings to work again (also SoP and Body).
I only changed back to those files as I've been using the ones you did. I get a smoother drive from your settings but still feels a bit lumpy on cornering.
 
I'm trying to understand the word "lumpy". You mean it bounces around? Is too "thick" feeling (like "jello")? I've looked up the word in an English dictionary but can not completely understand it in this context. Any other words you could use to describe it?

Also, any particular car + track combo being extra bad?
 
I'm trying to understand the word "lumpy". You mean it bounces around? Is too "thick" feeling (like "jello")? I've looked up the word in an English dictionary but can not completely understand it in this context. Any other words you could use to describe it?

Also, any particular car + track combo being extra bad?
Well I've been using the Z4 GT3 at Watkins Glen a lot over the last 2 days. It's like you really have to hang on to the wheel when cornering, it doesn't feel smooth but I've never driven anything other than a normal road car so maybe it does bounce a lot. Yes bounce could be a good way to describe it.
 
I'm trying to understand the word "lumpy". You mean it bounces around? Is too "thick" feeling (like "jello")? I've looked up the word in an English dictionary but can not completely understand it in this context. Any other words you could use to describe it?

Also, any particular car + track combo being extra bad?
I have somewhat of the same feeling. On certain turns it feels really tight and the slightest movement makes me spin out. It's not a smooth turning motion like you would get in a real car. It feels like it's locked in the center and if I left go of the wheel...it's locking back into place. Not sure if that makes much sense. For example...any GT3 car on Bathurst. The first left hand turn when you start going up the hill, and the s turns at the top of the hill, and the last left hand turn coming down the hill. It seems that every GT3 car (the only ones I've tried for this example) I have an issue with. The slightest movement...and I completely spin out and have no chance of saving it
 
I have somewhat of the same feeling. On certain turns it feels really tight and the slightest movement makes me spin out. It's not a smooth turning motion like you would get in a real car. It feels like it's locked in the center and if I left go of the wheel...it's locking back into place. Not sure if that makes much sense. For example...any GT3 car on Bathurst. The first left hand turn when you start going up the hill, and the s turns at the top of the hill, and the last left hand turn coming down the hill. It seems that every GT3 car (the only ones I've tried for this example) I have an issue with. The slightest movement...and I completely spin out and have no chance of saving it

I managed to pretty much get rid of this by turning the deadzone removal range (not dropoff) up to .06.
 
Have you checked for clipping though Brandon? I've tried it and will post a vid to see if I'm clipping I think maybe I am with that 0.06 change

It's close, and maybe clips on occasion, but I'd rather have a little bit of clipping than that snap-to-center feeling. .05 mostly got rid of it too, but .06 added just a little more weight in the turns which I like.
 
That's one of the first things I tried on every car I used and it had little effect on the strong center bump. I increased the arm angle as high as it would go and it still felt like a spring loaded ball bearing in a notch right at the dead center 0 degree point on the wheel. The only thing that got rid of it and made the steering perfect was to increase the falloff.

If you could picture the steering force as a shape it should look like a U as the force at 0 in the center should gradually increase as you steer left and right and should be a smooth transition from say +90 degree to -90 degree. Mine , on the other hand, would have looked like a very tight V shape.
What did you set the fall off to?
 

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