PC1 bManic's FFB experiment - Thrustmaster TX / T300

UPDATE! I changed Relative Adjust Bleed to 0.3 instead of 0.45 (which could cause some oddities)

UPDATE2!: More and more people with other wheel brands have tried the settings and it's starting to look as if these may work for quite a few wheels. T500 is confirmed as working pretty well, Fanatec GT2/GT3RS v2 also confirmed as working better than defaults and one Fanatec CSW v2 also happy.

UPDATE3!: There seems to be some confusion about Steering Arm Angle and what it is. It is NOT the same as Steering Ratio, which is a VEHICLE SETUP parameter. Arm Angle can be found in the car garage menu, under the Force Feedback Tab (it's the middle tab, between Vehicle and Summary tabs), the last option on the first page is called Arm Angle. This is the one I mean. Everything in this thread is about Force Feedback, not about vehicle setups!

Update4!: Brandon Wright noticed quite a bit of spikes and odd behavior which seems to be related to the Relative Adjust Bleed parameter. It is possible that my value of 0.3 is still too large so if any of you guys are suffering from these spikes then try a lower setting. You can go as low as 0.05 until you lose the benefit of the Relative Adjust processing block.


Hi guys,

So I finally had some time to play the game and I've spent the whole day experimenting with a new way to squeeze the massive FFB dynamic range into a range that our consumer wheels can tolerate while getting as much information as possible from the FFB (meaning: no hard clipping).

I would love it if you Thrustmaster TX and T300 owners would try these settings. NOTE: You must follow these instructions TO THE LETTER or the experience will be different to mine. Feedback that is provided without following every single point to the letter will be useless and thus ignored.

Why? Because the FFB system in pCars is extremely flexible and thus complex. It is also highly dynamic which means that a single tiny tweak of a crucial parameter (like tire force / master scale multiplier, spindle arm angle or the ratio of Fx, Fy, Fz and Mz) will alter the system. Thus, if you want stronger or weaker forces, use your Thrustmaster Control Panel program to control this! Do NOT change the in-game settings to achieve this!

These are my Thrustmaster Control Panel gain settings:

Overall strength of all forces = 75%
Constant = 100%
Periodic = 0%
Spring = 0%
Damper = 0%

Auto-center settings = by the game (recommended)

Step 1)

Set your Thrustmaster Control Panel settings. You can use my settings to start with. These result in fairly heavy forces. A good workout but not impossible to drive with. If you are a masochist, set the strength to 100%. I often drive longer races with the strength set to 60%.

Step 2)

Start Project CARS and reset your wheel then do the wheel calibration again as follows:

a) turn wheel FULLY LEFT AND RIGHT.. all the way! My TX wheel requires me to truly wrestle the wheel to get it 100%, otherwise it stops at 96%.

b) follow the 90 degree rotation to the letter.. this means you set your wheel so that it is physically pointing exactly 90 degrees to either left or right. Do NOT set it so that you get perfectly 900 or 1080 degrees here. Set it so that it is truly pointing 90 degrees to either side. For example, my wheel when set so that it is physically pointing 90 degrees results in a steering rotation of 882 degrees.

c) calibrate your pedals

d) configure your buttons

Step 3)

Make sure your FFB Strength in-game is set to 100/maximum! This is very important! It defaults to 75. Also make sure the FFB damping saturation setting is set to ZERO. It defaults to 25. (you find these options under the CONFIGURATION tab in the controls preferences)

Step 4)

Go into the "calibrate FFB" menu and set the following (parameters not mentioned should be left at default!):

Tire Force = 100

Deadzone Removal Range = 0.03
Deadzone Removal Falloff = 0.02

Relative Adjust Gain = 1.37 (sometimes it shows 137 and leaves the " . " out)
Relative Adjust Bleed = 0.30
Relative Adjust Clamp = 1.33 (sometimes it shows 133 and leaves the " . " out)

Scoop Knee = 0.12
Scoop Reduction = 0.08

Soft Clipping (Half Input) = 0.60
Soft Clipping (Full Output) = 1.79

Step 5)

Individual car setup FFB settings! I've only had time to test 3 cars but from these you can quickly extrapolate and get the general idea. The main idea is to have a Mz heavy setup and to set a good spindle arm angle and then to set a good Master Scale value so that the FFB "pushes" into the Relative Gain and Soft Clipping at proper levels. These usually end up in the 26 to 36 range, depending on how much down force the car produces or how heavy it is. Here are the settings for the 3 cars that tried:

<--- CAR SETUP - FFB TAB - --->

Lykan Hypersport:

Master Scale = 32

Fx = 68
Fy = 36
Fz = 74
Mz = 100

(note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

Steering Arm Angle = 2200

BMW Z4 GT3:

Master Scale = 28

Fx = 66
Fy = 44
Fz = 82
Mz = 100

(note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

Steering Arm Angle = 2000

Formula B:

Master Scale = 30

Fx = 68
Fy = 36
Fz = 74
Mz = 100

(note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

Steering Arm Angle = 2500
----------------------------------------------------------------------

That's it. You are done. Go into the game and enjoy pretty detailed FFB. To appreciate the full range of FFB I highly recommend turning off all driving aids. I'll add more cars to this thread once I have a chance to test some more.

NOTE!: I will NOT be providing FFB .xml files because they do not seem to work as expected. This is a complete system where every individual setting feeds into one another and thus becomes a quite complex thing. The general signal flow is like this (at least it used to be like this right before release):

Tire Force * Master Scale -> Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz -> Spindle Arm Angle -> Relative Gain -> Soft Clipping -> Scoop -> Tighten Center

As I've understood it, Relative Gain and Soft Clipping are non-linear functions and thus quite complex in nature. Even small input variations can cause quite a different feel in the wheel. Because there are two of these functions after one another and they feed an inherently non-linear device (your consumer wheel) you can probably appreciate how quickly things get complicated. You'll easily notice this by simply tweaking the Master Scale of each car or change the Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz relative ratios. Like I said in the beginning of the post, the main point is to squeeze as much "useful" information into the limited dynamic range of our consumer wheels and this means compressing the heck out of it.


You lucky s.o.b's with direct drive wheels can ignore all this and simply set pCars as fully linear and have a ridiculously awesome experience. You may still want to adjust the Fx, Fy, Fz and Mz settings like I have them above but disregard everything else (remove all soft clip and all relative gain and scoop stuff. Heck, I'd even remove tighten center).

Cheers!
bManic
 
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I have a question for T300 users. I'm trying to diagnose whether or not there's an issue with my wheel or my PC as I encounter some behaviors that don't seem right to me. When I'm doing the calibration my wheel has zero force to it, I can use one finger to spin it around for calibrating, and if I take my finger off the wheel it stays where it is instead of going back to center. I've noticed this same situation when I'm in any of the menu screens or in the pits (when the car is under computer control), no weight to the wheel at all. It's the same in AC, in the menus or in the pits the wheel is completely limp and only gets force to it when the car exits the pits. With my older wheels they would have weight always and would be pretty difficult to turn when I wasn't on track. But with the T300 it has nothing.

When I first turn on the PC the wheel is stiff and takes a lot of effort to turn it. But as soon as I start the game (AC, pCARS, GSCE) the wheel goes limp and it stays limp until I'm on track with control of the car. I also find that often when I'm driving the wheel will start go light in the turns, at the point when I expect it to start having some resistance/weight, and it makes for an odd feeling. Also, in GSCE all of the open-wheel cars basically have no weight/force to the wheel at all and it feels like I'm driving with a non-FFB wheel. The tin-top cars all feel ok (though some of them feel lighter than I think they should) but the open-wheel cars are completely useless. I've tried any number of settings and even did a complete re-install of Windows thinking that may fix it, it did not.

One last bit of info, I recently got the F1 rim and if I switch rims and then go to the profiler only one of the test functions work, the others do not make the wheel move or shake or anything. After a few restarts the test functions will start working again and the wheel will feel ok. But as soon as I change to another rim it all goes wonky again.

Does this sound like normal behavior for the T300? I'm not sure if I have a problem with my wheel, or with my PC, or if everything is as it should be. If I hook up the wheel to my PS3 it feels fantastic and as I would expect a FFB wheel to feel, but on the PC it just doesn't feel right to me. I've been trouble-shooting this issue for months, I've been in contact with Thrustmaster and my PC manufacturer (CyberPowerPC) with no resolution of the issue.
 
My wheel does the same thing you mentioned in the first two paragraphs. I don't recall if what you described in the 3rd paragraph has happened to me but I will try it and let you know. BTW, I have the TX and not the T300 but I believe they are very similar in most regards. T300 being 1080 DOR and TX being only 900 DOR.
 
My wheel does the same thing you mentioned in the first two paragraphs. I don't recall if what you described in the 3rd paragraph has happened to me but I will try it and let you know. BTW, I have the TX and not the T300 but I believe they are very similar in most regards. T300 being 1080 DOR and TX being only 900 DOR.

Thanks mate, good to know. Do you have issues with GSCE open wheel cars too? I found if I crank the RealFeel way up I can get plenty of weight and feeling but I have to really set them high and I'm sure it results in clipping.
 
Any other T300 owners experience any of the things I described? Specifically, the "test functions" in the profiler not working when you switch rims, or the open-wheel cars in GSCE having basically no FFB?
I have tested when switching out the rims Brandon. Both the RS & F1 rim test functions work fine, which is a bit annoying for you. I will try the Stock car issue for you soon, just in the middle of modding a few bits and pieces.
 
I have tested when switching out the rims Brandon. Both the RS & F1 rim test functions work fine, which is a bit annoying for you. I will try the Stock car issue for you soon, just in the middle of modding a few bits and pieces.

Thanks. I suppose it's not a big deal that the test functions don't work, but that indicates to me that something is wrong. When they're not working the wheel does feel dull (presuming if the test functions aren't working than it means those functions aren't working in-game either). Not sure why, but I tend to think it's more a problem with my PC, like it's just not recognizing that an input device has changed or something. I have no clue how to troubleshoot/diagnose such a situation though.
 
Thanks. I suppose it's not a big deal that the test functions don't work, but that indicates to me that something is wrong. When they're not working the wheel does feel dull (presuming if the test functions aren't working than it means those functions aren't working in-game either). Not sure why, but I tend to think it's more a problem with my PC, like it's just not recognizing that an input device has changed or something. I have no clue how to troubleshoot/diagnose such a situation though.
Have you tried different usb ports? Could your usb ports for your motherboard need updating? It's go to be something like that. maybe try taking everything out USB related and just try the wheel in different ports and see if you can narrow it down.
 
Have you tried different usb ports? Could your usb ports for your motherboard need updating? It's go to be something like that. maybe try taking everything out USB related and just try the wheel in different ports and see if you can narrow it down.

I only have two USB 2.0 ports and I've tried both of them, same result with both. How would I go about finding if the ports need updating?
 
Hey Brandon, not sure if your aware of it but I think you need to update the drivers for the T300 when you start to use the F1 wheel add-on or some process needs to be done, info is on the Thrustmaster site.

With the USB ports updating you would usually find the latest drivers at your motherboard manufactures web site, probably the best way, or windows update will sometimes offer a related update.
 
Brandon, did you make sure to switch out the rims when the PC was off just to be sure that it gets recognized when you boot everything up? I would recommend doing that rather than just swapping rims with everything still on.
 
I have a question for T300 users. I'm trying to diagnose whether or not there's an issue with my wheel or my PC as I encounter some behaviors that don't seem right to me. When I'm doing the calibration my wheel has zero force to it, I can use one finger to spin it around for calibrating, and if I take my finger off the wheel it stays where it is instead of going back to center. I've noticed this same situation when I'm in any of the menu screens or in the pits (when the car is under computer control), no weight to the wheel at all. It's the same in AC, in the menus or in the pits the wheel is completely limp and only gets force to it when the car exits the pits. With my older wheels they would have weight always and would be pretty difficult to turn when I wasn't on track. But with the T300 it has nothing.

When I first turn on the PC the wheel is stiff and takes a lot of effort to turn it. But as soon as I start the game (AC, pCARS, GSCE) the wheel goes limp and it stays limp until I'm on track with control of the car. I also find that often when I'm driving the wheel will start go light in the turns, at the point when I expect it to start having some resistance/weight, and it makes for an odd feeling. Also, in GSCE all of the open-wheel cars basically have no weight/force to the wheel at all and it feels like I'm driving with a non-FFB wheel. The tin-top cars all feel ok (though some of them feel lighter than I think they should) but the open-wheel cars are completely useless. I've tried any number of settings and even did a complete re-install of Windows thinking that may fix it, it did not.

One last bit of info, I recently got the F1 rim and if I switch rims and then go to the profiler only one of the test functions work, the others do not make the wheel move or shake or anything. After a few restarts the test functions will start working again and the wheel will feel ok. But as soon as I change to another rim it all goes wonky again.

Does this sound like normal behavior for the T300? I'm not sure if I have a problem with my wheel, or with my PC, or if everything is as it should be. If I hook up the wheel to my PS3 it feels fantastic and as I would expect a FFB wheel to feel, but on the PC it just doesn't feel right to me. I've been trouble-shooting this issue for months, I've been in contact with Thrustmaster and my PC manufacturer (CyberPowerPC) with no resolution of the issue.
I have a TX but there shouldn't be any resistance to the wheel if not racing. There is a strong spring/resistance when I first turn my wheel on but as soon as I open the TM control panel or start up a game my TX turns freely - thank god, I wouldn't want that resistance when trying to configure the wheel. Normal operation to me.
 
Brandon, did you make sure to switch out the rims when the PC was off just to be sure that it gets recognized when you boot everything up? I would recommend doing that rather than just swapping rims with everything still on.

I believe I've tried both ways. The F1 rim is on there and working properly for the moment so I've been hesitant to change rims because I just want to get some driving in (been enjoying Reiza's SuperV8 the last couple days and it's brilliant). Quite an odd situation (seems like my life is full of odd situations).

I have a TX but there shouldn't be any resistance to the wheel if not racing. There is a strong spring/resistance when I first turn my wheel on but as soon as I open the TM control panel or start up a game my TX turns freely - thank god, I wouldn't want that resistance when trying to configure the wheel. Normal operation to me.

Good to know. I've recently moved from the console world and this behavior isn't seen there so it seemed odd to me. I had thought it may be a sign of a problem, but it seems to be standard operation procedure so perhaps there are no serious issues with my wheel. :thumbsup:

Thanks guys, you've been more helpful than Thrustmaster or my PC manufacturer.
 
Just to clarify, is it standard operating procedure to always switch rims when the PC is shut down?
I just turn off my wheel at the mains, that then disconnects the USB, then I switch rims and power it back up, then it recalibrates itself again. Not had a issue doing it that way. I don't know why you actually have to restart your PC.
 
I just turn off my wheel at the mains, that then disconnects the USB, then I switch rims and power it back up, then it recalibrates itself again. Not had a issue doing it that way. I don't know why you actually have to restart your PC.

When you say "turn it off at the mains", do you mean unplugging it from the wall? As far as I know my wheel doesn't have an on/off switch (wish it did).
 
When you say "turn it off at the mains", do you mean unplugging it from the wall? As far as I know my wheel doesn't have an on/off switch (wish it did).
I wish it did too, I just switch it off at the wall socket, leave it a few seconds and you will hear Windows disconnect the wheel. Then swap over the wheel and turn the mains back on and let it calibrate. You are good to go then.
 
I wish it did too, I just switch it off at the wall socket, leave it a few seconds and you will hear Windows disconnect the wheel. Then swap over the wheel and turn the mains back on and let it calibrate. You are good to go then.

I don't think I can easily reach where my wheel is plugged in, gotta crawl partly under the side monitor to get to it. That still may be easier than restarting the PC though. :roflmao: I'll see if I have an extra power strip around, I could run it up to the side of the rig and then just reach down and flip the little switch on it to cycle the wheel on/off.

Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup:
 
I don't think I can easily reach where my wheel is plugged in, gotta crawl partly under the side monitor to get to it. That still may be easier than restarting the PC though. :roflmao: I'll see if I have an extra power strip around, I could run it up to the side of the rig and then just reach down and flip the little switch on it to cycle the wheel on/off.

Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup:
I have mine on a extension as the Thrustmaster cord is very short and I have not been able to fathom what type of connector it has into the base unit to buy a longer one. Hopefully when you get sorted this will sort your issues.
 
I have mine on a extension as the Thrustmaster cord is very short and I have not been able to fathom what type of connector it has into the base unit to buy a longer one. Hopefully when you get sorted this will sort your issues.

Not sure. I know I've swapped rims when the PC was off before, but when I turned the PC on it was still showing the previous rim as being attached and none of the test functions worked. I'd restart and then it would show the correct rim, but the test functions still didn't work and the wheel felt dead/lifeless when driving. After enough restarts/waiting a few days eventually everything works again. I tend to think it's more of an issue with my PC, but I have no idea where to even start troubleshooting (I've been working on Mac's for so long that I'm utterly useless on Windows 8).
 
I tend to agree with @Lazarou and feel that the issues you describe in your first two paragraphs are normal. I have not tested the functions of F1 wheel rim in the Thrustmaster profiler recently but I seem to remember that they worked just fine the last time I did. Are you sure that the USB ports on your PC are making strong contact with the wheel's USB cord. I know that on my PC some of the ports are "stronger" than others

Also, when I switch wheels I don't disconnect the wheel from the power source at the wall socket. Instead, I pull the cord out where it connects to the wheel. Just to save the effort of having to crawl under my rig. I don't know if I should be doing that since it's probably a shock hazard so I won't recommend it.
 

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