Buying advice please - Next Level v3 Motion Platform

[MarkR]

I'm looking for some advice and thoughts of other owners or people with good knowledge of the product, please.

I always said I'd buy myself a motion simulator if I could afford one and had the room available. Well, that day may have arrived. I'm impressed by what I've seen of the Next Level v3 Motion Platform

This seems to meet all my criteria:

+ Limited space requirements, I don't have room for a huge sim rig but this seems compact enough to work.
+ Works with Oculus Rift VR, that fixed head position setting solution is impressive
+ Great support and regular updates from the developers
+ Available in the UK
+ Works with my current Thrustmaster wheel and accessories.
+ Sub £3k for the full setup, I'm not a pro racer I'm not looking for a practice simulator this is just for fun so the cost/fun balance has to be right.

So help me do the man maths! Is it worth it?

Is there another similar product I should also look at? It would need to be reasonably compact, work with VR, available in the UK without too much hassle and in the same £3-5K price range.

Is there anywhere I can try one or even better several of the systems in the UK?

 

[TPS]

I would love a review of the V3 vs the Stage IV from SimXperience. I was so close to getting one of those, but decided against it. I am happy that I did to be honest. Since I've began running the motion properly again, it just feels so nice. Nice as in, you barely notice it's there because it blends in so well with what you expect to feel and also the tactile I have running. Once I add back in VR it will be another step up again. I know the Stage IV has the traction loss, but apart from that, I wonder what the difference in feeling is, both with and without it. Are their actuators better at what they do than the V3? Very interested.

I was very close to import Stage 4 from USA, but tax and shipment would kill the me after all. I have had 2DOF for too long it seems and got a bit bored with I guess, that is why I am looking for something new. Space saving and quietness are a bit of benefits, but not major, only minor

 

[anton_Chez]

You are going to need to add another DOF to experience a worthwhile upgrade. Either traction loss (Yaw) or chassis suspension (Heave). To get the latter, you are looking at a ProSimu or D-Box type actuator. Quite a large jump in price, especially if you are keen on a D-Box. Another thing to consider is the chassis that you will use those actuators on. Stage IV has it's own, as does the ProSimu, but I am not a fan of either of those chassis. D-Box (or an equivalent actuator type) with an 80 20 chassis is the holy grail for me. That being said I don't see the need to part with that much money when I already have a nice motion setup. D-Box actuators would bolt directly onto my current chassis so at least the upgrade path is fairly simple, although costly.

 

[TPS]

I tried Dbox, not my kind of pizza. Prefer body force against the wheel vs chasis forces. I spent the whole day to tweak my 2Dof to my liking.
I wonder one more thing, responsivness of Prosimu Simulator Two vs NLRv3. Which one lag more?

 

[anton_Chez]

Prefer body force against the wheel vs chasis forces.

This, right here, is the exact quote that should be used for every argument regarding full chassis motion setups (D-Box style) versus seat movers (NL V3). Could not have put it any more perfect myself. Well done on that.

I can safely say that the V3 has ZERO lag between what is on the screen and in my hands, and what I feel in my body. I have never had a disconnect in what I expected to feel, apart from the odd time the car rolls, or you drop out of track boundaries on a mod track. I cannot speak for other platforms, but I can with certainty say that lag is not present on the V3. I've had it for nearly 18 months and never once thought about it.

 

[aliolemon]

I tried Dbox, not my kind of pizza. Prefer body force against the wheel vs chasis forces. I spent the whole day to tweak my 2Dof to my liking.
I wonder one more thing, responsivness of Prosimu Simulator Two vs NLRv3. Which one lag more?

They don´t sell the ProSimu Simulator Two anymore.
I got the ProSimu T1000 and i can´t complain.
And i even got the the Next Level Motion Platform since May 2018
and did have them both running in symbiosis till this morning i am trying to sell the NLM PV3
because the high driving Position, the last "reliable" issues that are adressed in this thread.
The complicated build in comparison with the ProSimu actuators.
Biggest problem with Motion Platforms are the slow movments in comparison with real cars,
and actuators do their Job just faster as servo motors

 

[Mascot]

They don´t sell the ProSimu Simulator Two anymore.
I got the ProSimu T1000 and i can´t complain.
And i even got the the Next Level Motion Platform since May 2018
and did have them both running in symbiosis till this morning i am trying to sell the NLM PV3
because the high driving Position, the last "reliable" issues that are adressed in this thread.
The complicated build in comparison with the ProSimu actuators.
Biggest problem with Motion Platforms are the slow movments in comparison with real cars,
and actuators do their Job just faster as servo motors

Advertise your NLv3 here on the RD Marketplace - there are a couple of people who might be interested.

 

[TPS]

And i even got the the Next Level Motion Platform since May 2018
and did have them both running in symbiosis till this morning i am trying to sell the NLM PV3
because the high driving Position, the last "reliable" issues that are adressed in this thread.

Should I understand your opinion against NLRv3 due to responsiveness?
I read there are some issues with reliability of NLRv3 - some people complain some parts getting broken. I have Simulator Two and cannot complain at all, but I thought that NLRv3 might be a good upgrade, which seems is not possible

 

[aliolemon]

Should I understand your opinion against NLRv3 due to responsiveness?

No not really, just some reasons that complete my wish to sell it. The high driving Position and the fear of repairs to send it to the Workshop. I just want to build, my Dream Cockpit and the driving height and Position is a very relevant factor. To many compromises on my rig with the NLMP.

The ProSimu Platform got lesser moving parts that can brake down.
I would stay with the Simulator TWO

 

[anton_Chez]

You're 'driving position' issues are irrelevant if you mount all your other gear at the same relative height as the motion platform. I don't understand the problem with height. If you are bolting a motion platform to another motion platform then I would say that is not a true indicator of how the product performs the way it was designed. We all have 80 20 rigs here and for the most part can barely slide our hand underneath the casing of the V3 motor. You can't possilby get it any lower and with a decent cockpit you can achieve the desired result.

How you decide to run the hardware is up to you. But comparing the function of a motion platform to a real car is not very helpful to potential buyers. Which commerically available motion system compares to a real life race car? Especially at the price bracket the V3 occupies.

Wear and tear is a part of life for any moving part. Sending the unit away is annoying but again it's not like every person in here is complaining that their platform is dying after 3 months of moderate use.

 

[Kranky Pantz]

Wear and tear is a part of life for any moving part. Sending the unit away is annoying but again it's not like every person in here is complaining that their platform is dying after 3 months of moderate use.

I'll chime in, and thankfully I didn't even make it to the 3 month mark before mine died.
OK, that started off badly, but please bear with me for as to why.

I had owned it for about 6 weeks, but only used it for just over 4 of those due to having to basically re-build my DIY rig in order to accommodate for the higher seating position.

Last Thursday evening I was having a nice run in AC, when out of nowhere the platform just froze at an awkward half-cocked angle. Upon investigating, it was dead, no lights, no fans, no power, nothing. Let it sit for a while (thinking it was perhaps a thermal shutdown glitch), but it was just dead. Decided to call it a night and fingers crossed it would power up in the morning.
Nope it was D.E.A.D!
The pisser...not even an external fuse to check....so....strike one!

Being 2 weeks past Best Buy's 30-day return policy, I decided to call them anyways to see what they could do. I realize that NLR offers a 2 year warranty, but being in Canada it would be a hassle to deal with, expensive to ship back, and that's when it struck me...this $4k unit is great when it works, but for how long?
Strike two!

As I explained the situation to Customer Service and they seemed to be receptive to my concerns.
After being on hold for about 10 mins while they made some inquires, they returned with some good news...as per an agreement with the distributor they handle everything during the 2 years warranty.

Great!!! But is it????? I mean, after 2 years, then what?
Strike three!

They said that the best thing to do would be to return it to the store for a full refund, and then if I wished I could re-order it for the same sale price of $3500 that I had originally purchased it for, which is $500 off, or just cut my losses.
It took me about 1 second to decide that for ~$4k after taxes that as much fun as it is, it's just simply not worth it risk-wise...so I decided to just take the refund and move on.
It turned out to be a Home Run after all!!!

Now I'm looking at building a simple 2dof x-simulator rig, because at least that way I'll know how it all works, where I can get the parts from, and how to repair it when (not if) need be.

In the end I feel as though I've dodged a bullet (thank you Best Buy!) and was lucky that this was a unique and expensive enough toy, and early enough after purchase that the retailer dealt with this like a champ. Had it been 3 months or so, they probably would have just repaired or exchanged it, and to be honest, after this incident my confidence level in the NLRv3 has plummeted to below zero :-(
It's just such a proprietary piece of gear from halfway around that world that the con's outweigh the pro's....bummer!

It was fun while it lasted, and now my rig feels somewhat dead without it (aside from SimVibe), but I'm excited to get on with a DIY motion platform and get back to having my kidneys shaken ;-)

Good luck with your v3's folks, they're a blast when they work, plus the Connector Software is outstanding...I'll surely miss how easy that was to work with.

 

[RobertR1]

A couple of things everyone should be aware of. Next level racing is not the real manufacturer of the product. They are white labeling this product: https://motionsystems.eu/products/

I'm not sure how many of the issues raised to NLR make it to the production company. I don't think the platform is mature enough yet to determine it's reliability but I could see an issue where the MTBF is lower than what we'd expect given the price. I went with a new one over refurbished due to the 2 year warranty. The piece of mind was worth it to me.

For those not in the EU, I'd take extra caution in buying the product and perhaps wait a bit to see how early models mature a year into their sale window. Being in the UK, the replacement process is less painful and I've kept the box.

Out of all my rig components, the V3 is the one I have the lowest confidence in for reliability due to it's brief history and complexity of the product. It's not something I think about often as the enjoyment is totally worth it to me. The other products don't meet my use case.

 

[Kranky Pantz]

A couple of things everyone should be aware of. Next level racing is not the real manufacturer of the product. They are white labeling this product: https://motionsystems.eu/products/

I'm not sure how many of the issues raised to NLR make it to the production company. I don't think the platform is mature enough yet to determine it's reliability but I could see an issue where the MTBF is lower than what we'd expect given the price. I went with a new one over refurbished due to the 2 year warranty. The piece of mind was worth it to me.

For those not in the EU, I'd take extra caution in buying the product and perhaps wait a bit to see how early models mature a year into their sale window. Being in the UK, the replacement process is less painful and I've kept the box.

Out of all my rig components, the V3 is the one I have the lowest confidence in for reliability due to it's brief history and complexity of the product. It's not something I think about often as the enjoyment is totally worth it to me. The other products don't meet my use case.

Thank you for reconfirming my thoughts, especially as a foreign buyer (Canada, Eh!).
I really loved my time with the NLRv3 MP, and their customer service was fantastic for the few times I had software questions.
Brendan is a Saint!

For me, the hardware is the main issue, and it's so proprietary in its design that troubleshooting and servicing in my part of the world is a major issue. Returning it was a sad day for me, but it had to be done.

NLR, if by chance you are reading this, get some form of repair service here in North America in order to alleviate concerns such as mine. In doing so, you would have had my $$$$ without question.
:-(

 

[anton_Chez]

At the end of the day, it's just part and parcel of buying hardware that is going to be used for an extensive amount of time. I've had graphics cards die on me and rather than wait for the RMA process to complete, I've simply bought new ones and sold the used one once it came back to me. I couldn't deal with the time the card was going to be away for. Having a dual card setup helped this situation a little but still, I need to ship to Hong Kong or wherever in Asia to have the repairs done or replacement sent out so it's the same thing with the V3, just a little bigger. I have a local distributor in Australia and that's where I bought my gear from. I have already had Teamviewer sessions sort out issues without needing to leave my house. I have replacement tension springs coming in the mail and I will be replacing those myself once they get here. The cost and hassle of a DIY does not seem attractive to me at all and I am someone that likes to tinker. I think the package they provide with the V3 platform and software is pretty hard to beat. I've seen some similarly priced motion gear that I wouldn't count on lasting as long as what I expect this thing to.

It all depends on your experience. I'm having a bastard of a couple of weeks so mine very well might die tomorrow and my tune might change. But, your car breaks down, your appliances break down, your body breaks down, why would a motion platform be any different? At the end of the day if you need to send it in for repair maybe once in a ten year life cycle, I'd say that's pretty good. The unit is designed for commercial usage and while I wouldn't subject my unit to that abuse, some simple end user tweaks can make your experience much less stressful. The software allows you to run the hardware slower, softer, with less travel etc. Make use of it if longevity is of importance to you. For me? I've had mine for 18 months and I'd be surprised if I had it for another 18. I'm that person that just buys stuff because I can.

Dont @ me Steve........

 

[HoiHman]

What supprises me that suddenly there's a lot talk about units breaking down.

If you see the company that makes them motionsystems.eu, one should have a lot of confidence since they make proffessional motion platforms up to 60.000 euro.

A couple of years ago i had a failure with the SCN6 acculators from SimXperience. I got a refund 1,5 years later i decided to buy a NLMv3.

With the failure of the SCN6 still in mind, reliability was one of my main concerns. Back ther there were no stories about units breaking down.

7 weeks ago my unit did break down due to a failure on the left arm and in the end it was replaced by new one for other reasons

The old one was produced in feb 2017 and is revison 1.1,
The new replacement is build in april 2018 and is revision 1.3.

Let's just hope they have made significant improvements in the last year.

 

[Kranky Pantz]

What supprises me that suddenly there's a lot talk about units breaking down.

If you see the company that makes them motionsystems.eu, one should have a lot of confidence since they make proffessional motion platforms up to 60.000 euro.

A couple of years ago i had a failure with the SCN6 acculators from SimXperience. I got a refund 1,5 years later i decided to buy a NLMv3.

With the failure of the SCN6 still in mind, reliability was one of my main concerns. Back ther there were no stories about units breaking down.

7 weeks ago my unit did break down due to a failure on the left arm and in the end it was replaced by new one for other reasons

The old one was produced in feb 2017 and is revison 1.1,
The new replacement is build in april 2018 and is revision 1.3.

Let's just hope they have made significant improvements in the last year.

Best of luck!

Mine was producd in Feb 2018 and was revision 1.2.

I've already ordered the JRK motor controllers for my DIY build, and they should be here in a few days.
Just need to decide on the motors and then I'm off to the races with motion again

 

[Levente Zari]

Guys - I read here lot of tales - if you use some serious brake pedal (heusinkveld ultimate...) the motion seat is a dead story - and next to it unrealistic movement - variable distance between virtual dashboard, real steering wheel and your body - if you want something realy good you have to spend money for it - d-box or prosimu.....are the solution - any other is a self-deception how to not spend so much money)) - mention: motion seat is okay for fun with fanatec logitech pedal but not for proffesional....

 

[HoiHman]

Guys - I read here lot of tales - if you use some serious brake pedal (heusinkveld ultimate...) the motion seat is a dead story - and next to it unrealistic movement - variable distance between virtual dashboard, real steering wheel and your body - if you want something realy good you have to spend money for it - d-box or prosimu.....are the solution - any other is a self-deception how to not spend so much money)) - mention: motion seat is okay for fun with fanatec logitech pedal but not for proffesional....

Agreed, D-box is the way go. If you have the money to spend, but i probably haven't sold as much as you have, so i don't have the money to spend ....... Yet

I have HE-pros and i have to admit that i felt more comfortable braking hard when my NLM3 was not on my rig. The hole seat construction is more rigid without the NLM3v3. I do not brake as hard with the motion seat as i did without it. On the other hand those high brake forces are only realistic when you are IN the car, since the G-Forces during braking help a lot while pressing the pedal. That's why the brake forces are so high in real life to compensate that. This "G-force braking" is something that the NLMv3 does really well.

I do not agree that the motion seat is unrealistic, but that's an entire different discussion.

@Kranky Pantz, let's just hope they made a lot of changes in the last revision
In my personal situation DIY is not an option, since i have no room at all behind the seat. The NLMv3 is perfect solution for motion on my non permanent rig. Good luck in building one, if you have the space, craft and time DIY is the way to go.

I don't believe in turning down stuff to make the platform last longer. The softer braking i can live with (and being an old guy ) it's quite nice to let the platform to the most of the work. You simply can not expect something to last if you are going to use 150KG braking forces.

As far as reducing motion speed or movement, that's where i draw the line. I bought the unit for full enjoyment. Driving in it at reduced speed would just eat at me.

As for stuff breaking down. I'm always afraid my gear breaks down. Oculus, GS-4 and now we have added the NLMv3 to the list

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I did wonder about braking forces as I’m already going to be closer to the max 130kg weight limit with a 10kg seat and my 100kg than most. Not to mention my 35” inseam is a big lever point and my experience of bicycles tells me power, mass and long levers leads to standard parts breaking a lot.

I had to get an Aluminium bottom bracket built because the standard Shimano ones just bent and then I had to get custom 32 spoke wheels made because with off the shelf models the spokes kept breaking, I even got Mavic Ksyrium Elites which are supposedly ‘bulletproof’ and cracked the entire hub around the spokes.

Anyway reliability is going to be a function of who’s using it and how much. Those guys putting their whole rigs on it and ignoring the 130kg weight limit are going to kill it faster, just like those hard mounting seatbelts to the rig and putting extra strain on the motors.

We’d all love to get a D-Box but at 5x more than the NLR that’s not really realistic. I could of saved up for it but then I wouldn’t have been able to get anything else that I did and for just motion it’s not in my price range right now.

 

[Steve D]

Guys - I read here lot of tales - if you use some serious brake pedal (heusinkveld ultimate...) the motion seat is a dead story - and next to it unrealistic movement - variable distance between virtual dashboard, real steering wheel and your body - if you want something realy good you have to spend money for it - d-box or prosimu.....are the solution - any other is a self-deception how to not spend so much money)) - mention: motion seat is okay for fun with fanatec logitech pedal but not for proffesional....

You do make good, valid points but, for what it is, the NLMv3 can definitely provide a level of additional immersion, for sensible money and within a small form factor that, whilst certainly not based on the reality of driving a moving mass with a fixed seat on a real track, still adds significantly to the experience, especially in VR, which I personally think it compliments superbly. In fact being without it just doesn't feel right to me any more.

Having read @HoiHman's and @Furnace Inferno excellent responses, there's not much more to add although I do personally 'dial down' my settings, (thanks to @anton_Chez) to reduce platform movement and have separate profiles for formula, non-formula cars and even street cars to allow for some variance in characteristics. And the beauty of the v3 software is that you can adjust a range of movements to suit individual taste. There is certainly no 'one size fits all' set up solution but that is I suppose, the great thing about it.

But you are 'bang on the money' with regards unrealistic movements that move you too close to or too far from the wheel and pedals and the affect of braking forces being applied to the motion platform.

As a result I've really reduced the Heave and Surge settings to reduce this range and speed of motion but not so far as to remove the sensation they offer and I might still tweak this depending on what car I'm driving. Yes it's a compromise but I've personally got used to these more subtle effects and it allows me to focus on the steering and braking rather than having to be ready to react to an unrealistic movement the platform is making or about to make. I've only recently acquired some HE Pros, (replacing my Fanatec V3's) and at first I thought WTF based on the increased braking force required in conjunction with the flexing seat mover! However I tested a combination of rubbers and also adjusted pedal calibration in-situ with platform movement and made small changes to get to a point where pedal application felt firm but still natural and progressive. Muscle memory has quickly taken care of the rest and I'm actually surprised how quickly I've adapted. However that's as much down to the top quality of the HE kit and how well it can be tuned rather than anything else. That might not suit a pro of course, but it suits and works for me just fine.

Whatever your requirement, whatever your constraints and whatever your budget, it's just good to have a choice of motion solutions out there that allow us to enjoy this wonderful hobby all the more.

 

[Insert Coin]

You guys saw this? https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/9ezek3/traction_and_motionwho_wants_to_speculate/