Ben O'Bro tell me one thing...
You are responsible for the 165 mod right? Possibly the best car in the AC (at the moment)
Why are the 165 handling so much different (better) compared to the Academy and Super Sprint, all they do on the limit is understeer, maybe that's how they are in RL
165 feels so much more play full, 'turn in' is so much better, like it was made at Jesus birth day
How come...?
Hi,
Academy I do not know what Ben used, I have his model but haven't gotten to fiddle with it as I need to finish other things first. I think he used the 1700 as a base which I will as well but there are zillions of little things to change, check, verify and I don't have details for Academy yet as most info I have is for 2012 and older usually and no Academy or other race versions beside official regulations.
165 was done by someone else from Kamil's, it's a newer model and I may update it later it's just low priority now.
The understeer is pretty normal and how it should be, there is nothing much that can be done it's how the car is supposed to drive with the settings it has. Open rear diff = low rear slip. Very high front lift, a similar car in AC in how bad the front lift is may be the new 330 P4 handling wise though I would have to check for 330 P4 data in AC to see but I bet it was high front lift that made it drive so awful.
There is a note in readme made for this question:
understeer = driver error, entering too fast, cold front tyres, no weight transfer, ...
It's just how it is, there is also setup adjustment available in setup menu and the realistic changes do work as they should. Dampers are locked and I've made it as steery as it can be, making a compromise between low speed and high speed steer as you can have only one very good the other will be poor and vice versa, so it's set road like and it gives overall the best front grip.
Check front axle weight as you're driving, you will see you're losing a lot of front weight from aero and weight shifting. Even with the more power versions with LSD you have to transfer weight to front, brake, lift off, etc. to get front grip, transfer weight and then you can step on it and let the rear rip. It's really just adapting your driving style, the Cats are not a usual car people are used to driving.
There are some issues with the 165 as well, I've noted it to Ben but I don't have any patch for it as it's more of a whole remake. I don't really know what precise specs the 165 is, engine and so on, I mostly know the 2000-2010 variants which are easier to find data for.
This Academy is 0.8 so it's not a final version IMHO, at least that's how I see it, more of WIP and physics corrected checked and championship regulations limited settings will be added with 1.0 when I make it.
I guess Ben had some spare time while making his apartment so he made the 0.8 public for now.
At 160km/h the 1700SS has 33.61kg front and 1.86kg rear lift and 94.76% front balance for aero. And these numbers are taken from wind tunnel data, not 100% accurate for this precise model sure but it is damn close enough and all the Cats have about the same aero thanks to quite the same chassis, it's only the newer high power versions that differ and are more aero optimized, these older versions and well all Cats are an aerodynamic brick with a front lift. Total drag is 0.945 and 41.09% balance. Aero efficiency -30.87%. In AC you can drive 160km/h and see similar/same numbers in the aero dev app, I'm reading these out of my "tool/Excel" as I have all the stuff I need calculated by now and AC uses quite the same simple equations.
Springs, very oversteery, realistic. Aero very understeery, realistic. Dampers set to get as much front grip in mid speed I guess 3rd gear as possible. ARBs realistic, has only front, no rear ARB = understeery. Tyres equal front and rear and if you don't heat up the front = understeer.
Same as other cars with similar handling, you have to transfer weight to front to get grip. You can watch some YT videos on how to drive a Caterham, they do share some of these "tricks". Lift off or brake before you turn in otherwise you will not have front grip and there is nothing anyone can do about it beside sticking crazy spoilers and aerodynamic parts on the car, literally then the whole car can have front and rear downforce but looks like a Frankenstein.
As well the car doesn't have the power to slip rear much even if it was fitted with an LSD and it would just make the understeer even worse in some situations. Also no rear toe = minimal rear slip, it's a live axle the rear wheels go straight parallel forward and have minimal slip.
Mostly it's the aero and that is what's making the 1700 so different. The 165 has I guess the old Kamil's Academy aero I don't know or something else. This new Academy I guess Ben copied the 1700 and the aero is indeed pretty much the same, I will check the differences and chassis and adjust as needed I have some value already prepared for aero for different versions it's mostly drag though. The aero has angle variable drag and lift on everything as close as I can get it and the model data is used for it etc.
Even with modern 420R etc. you can watch YT videos and see them understeer on Nordschleife for example, at least I can see it as that's how I see it in any sim as well, not through the ForceFeedback but from the screen.
Gears 4-5 = understeer if you don't transfer weight and go too fast into a corner. The rest is quite fine.
It's a Cat it drives like a Cat *shrug* nothing much can be done.
It was compared with previous versions, that had old aero and were more oversteery, it's really the aero for most part that makes this difference and understeery feeling when you are overdriving. Like any car the driver has to adapt to the car, track and other conditions, make necessary adjustments as desired to the setup and I've made sure the ones I know people use on real Cats do work here as well. Tyre pressures, camber, springs, toe. Even left a bit of brake balance play in there.
OK I will give up my "race set" it's +2psi for tyres, max front camber, probably +0.05 front toe which might be default anyway, brake balance max to rear, springs stiffer on both axles and height to minimum on both. And that's about as much adjustment as there is. That would be my "race/track set" for the 1700SS. And yes it does help to steer etc. a noticeable bit. And don't lock front tyres on brakes adjust with foot or settings as you need. Minimum preload.
Is the 1.0 going to be very different, probably not if Ben copied the 1700 physics, most likely lighter with a little lower drag, different engine of course and probably not rear live axle remains to be seen how AC deals with DeDion approximation via DWB, I will test both. For the most part what makes a Cat a Cat is the poor aerodynamics with high front lift and slightly rearward weight balance when loaded with driver and fuel. The details, not everyone is able to notice and read the car well enough.
