Chicken attitude or no skills on the [5]Ranked server?

[BrunoBæ]

I have tried some 20min races on the [5]Ranked server for the FR90xx Cup cars - but have been pretty disappointed of the lousy quality my few opponents have shown.

Its ofcourse a problem that there is very low participation in this class - but when somebody turns up then they have until now shown completely no skills.
Sometimes if they even does try to set a qual time they suddenly leave when my qual time is displayed on their screen.
But what is more common is they dont care to set a qual time for some reason.
And then when the start goes I have a lot of replays where these guys cant even make the start without pirouetting into the track barrier.

To be fair in my description there was actually one(1) driver who managed to only slightly touch the barrier at the start on Spa(Classic) and even managed to survive the Eau Rouge corner - but then managed to go off in about every corner on his first lap.
On the second lap he began to drive even more erratic probably because it frustrated him that I didnt wait for him.
He didnt survive 2 laps before he ESC´ed out of the race after even further crashes.

I have to admit that there was actually one(1) race at Monza where one driver was able to set a competent qual time (faster than me).
When I saw that I began to look forward to the 20min race.
The 3rd driver didnt care to set a qual time - but on the replay I could see that he tried to but had too many offs to succed.

When we started I prepared myself to carefully let the pole sitter take Monzas first R/L corner without messing him up.
Hehe but I didnt even get into this 1st corner myself because the completely unskilled 3rd driver plowed into me trying to divebomb the polesitter.

In an effort to try to maintain my own enthusiasm Im collecting replays of these laughable "races" to publish a compilation on Youtube of the quality of some of the MP drivers of Raceroom.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: I think it was the owner Austin Ogonoski of the longgone PretendRaceCars who said that a lot of simracers have more or less no skills whatsoever.
But I cant remember if he said it was the majority.

 

[DrRob]

What you describe is not limited to R3E and the FR90 class or ranked servers.
In the few online races I had, I noticed that sometimes very basic mistakes were made, little knowledge of how to control the car were shown by some of the drivers. Or late joiners completely ruined the experience for all other participants by crashing into them in the first corner.

As if they bought the game and instantly jumped into multiplayer the next minute without having touched any racing game ever before.
I for one would always train cars and tracks first before I'd even think of launching multiplayer. I would feel so embarrassed of myself if I would show the behaviour some others have shown in those races. Maybe it is a difference in attitude towards the hobby combined with the anonymity of the internet.

I mean I feel this is the very reason server passwords, safety ratings and whatnot were created in the first place. Sad story of exclusion really, but I can understand the thinking behind this.

 

[UMC 22]

The age-old issue with public servers. I've always said that adding a ranking system will do little or nothing to improve standards in unmonitored online racing, and here we are. Even if everything worked perfectly, the chances of finding a decently attended race of people of similar ranking who have no demerits in the class you want to race at the time you are ready is very slim. So regardless of what the rankings say, you're always going to be forced to share the grid with people who have no skills and quit the moment they see no chance of winning... which is usually on lap one.

That's why I stick to properly organised racing only, in communities where I can get to know the other drivers and therefore build a mutual respect with. Just having a place to talk to each other, forums and voice chat, is enough to improve respect and driving standards on it's own, which is increased further by most communities having proper penalties to punish persistently bad driving.

It's true that organised racing isn't suitable for everyone because it uses set times and days which may not be convenient for all. But that's life, it's full of choices. You can either make the time and enjoy clean, respectful racing, or you can race whenever you want and put up with crappy standards on public servers. Combining the advantages of both is the Holy Grail which will probably never be achieved... and certainly not by a ranking system alone.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Actually I had hoped that the answers to my post would have been something like: Sorry mate but you have been so unfortunate to fancy a car class where the (few) MP drivers available is not representable for the other car classes.
That is one of the reasons I named this thread slightly provocative.

But I have to admit that I wouldnt have posted my obove frustration if it wasnt because I have been soooo disappointed by the quality of the guys on this socalled ranked server.

And I can add that if it has just been one or two occasions of a lot of races I have met such COMPLETELY unskilled "drivers" then I have just shrugged my shoulders and enjoyed all the other exciting races and skilled drivers.
But as mentioned I have only met pure poo.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: Pure poo + 1 skilled driver taking pole on the grid

 

[UMC 22]

Are you free Saturday nights Bruno? If you are, you should come join us in the club, just for fun.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Where? Is it a fun race?
I cant see one?
Hehe but I have to say if it is then Im only joining if its a car/track I know of.
Just as Rob said above Ill never go MP if I havent practised - even if its just for fun

EDIT: I just checked. If its the Multi-class @ Imola then I hate multiclass. I hate it from iRacing where I was forced to participate because the only races in my Nissan GTP was in multiclass with some goofy Audis. And allway when I was ready to take a corner on the ideal racing line there came some nuisance in an Audi and spoiled my line. Hehe or punched my lovely Nissan

 

[UMC 22]

I just checked. If its the Multi-class @ Imola then I hate multiclass.

No worries. We have an event every Saturday night so I'm sure something you like will come up sooner or later. Events are usually posted a week in advance, so you'll have time to practice.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Hehe you gotta believe me when I say that I check your events out every week.
But I think that I have to get re-used to as example the P21 or the 2 group-C cars because it looks like there is close to nil participation if an event with my prefered FR90xx is announced.
But I also have to practice pitstops because one of the reason I have participated in the 20min races on Racerooms ranked server is because there is no forced pitstop.

Me thinking that instead of a mandatory pitstop it could be more challenging to make it non-mandatory - but then instead make the race so long that the fuel use would make it an advantage to deleberately make a pitstop instead of dragging the car away first part of the race with 1 ton fuel.
This would make the fuel/pitstop strategy more challenging.
Just me thinking

EDIT: With 2 tons of fuel

 

[stevem]

Same experience here. My last FR90 race at suzuka was 3 cars and the other 2 quit after turn 1. I would have finished the lap but I was rear ended so hard that I lost my tranny and my back left wheel.

 

[BrunoBæ]

To repeat myself - then lots of years I have often read about the low quality of open server races.
But until now (and Im sincere here) I have just thought that the quality was mainly(!) impared by intended rammers.
I mean people who have no real content in life and therefore use their time to spoil others hobbies.
But now I have suddenly realised that what is much worse than these rammers is the average skills (= lack of) of probably the majority of MP drivers.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: I AM pretty sincere here when I say that this has been some kind of personal eyeopener

 

[FeltHat]

Thats a long way to write "i joined a public server and skill was low"

you shouldnt expect much outside of clubs and leagues

 

[BrunoBæ]

Strange comment from a person where I have never seen any critical comment on anything the Raceroom devs have launched.
Hehe but maybe thats the reason behind the comment

Personally I consider my own comments as a reality check after a lot of years on another racing games MP service - where the average driver quality was much higher.
Higher even when joining their non pasword protected races or not having to restrict oneself to their user created leagues.
Because eventhough iRacing also have both lousy drivers and intentional rammers the average quality of drivers is much higher than anywhere else in the worldwide racegame niche.
And at least much much higher than what I have experienced on Racerooms socalled Ranked Servers.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: Yes this eyeopener can also be used to direct a critical eye on a racing game launching some socalled beta Ranking servers without any reasonable framework to try to discipline even the most obvious kindergarden behaviour.

 

[UMC 22]

The big difference between iRacing and every other racing sim currently on the market is membership fees.

When you're paying a monthly subscription for something, you respect it more and take it more seriously. When a service has a subscription fee the overall number of people actively using the service is lower and does not include "random users" with nothing to lose. When you're in a restricted community you don't want to alienate yourself by being a complete arsehole, because you'll end up being removed from people's races and unable to use the service you're paying for. And of course, if you're serious enough about racing to be happy with paying a monthly fee to do so, then your skill level is probably somewhat above average to begin with.

In other words, I don't think that any online racing service without a paid subscription will ever enjoy high standards on their public servers. The paywall itself is a major deterrent all on it's own, and likely enough to prevent 90% of the idiots ever bothering to use the service. It can also help pay for a staffed complaints procedure like the one we have here at RD, in which incidents can be reported for review. (No, RD staff are not paid. But a similar system could be done on a much larger scale if it had paid staff.)

So like FeltHat said, the only way to escape (most of) the idiots is to race in an organised community with robust rules and human monitoring. I think we do a pretty good job of that here, supported by the fact that incident reports have dwindled to almost zero these days.

Edit: I am in no way suggesting that R3E should adopt a subscription service. On the contrary, if they did I would stop playing.

 

[BrunoBæ]

You are right that the positive result on the driver quality by this paywall thing is becomming somewhat obvious - for me too.
But I havent realised it so clearly before my described [5]Ranked server intermezzos.
And something does imply that a lot of iRacers also havent realised this fully.

Because recently I have seen people wanting to defend iRacing against critic of the quality of drivers - where it has been mentioned several times in the iRacing part of Racedepartment that there is no relation between the cost of iRacing and the quality of of drivers.
And therefore the chance/possibility of being taken out in a race inside iRacing vs outside isnt principally different.
When people complain being taken out in races again and again by others then its repeatedly used against them - that just because they pay a high price for iRacing they cannot claim not to be taken out by other drivers.

And your point about the possibility of being banned from iRacing because of misuse/bad manners is only principally right - because in reality its close to impossible to be.

I reported an idiot who on either Barber or Lime Rock repeatedly drove the wrong way and pretty intentional rammed into people until they left the track.
I met him on several occasions on track(several weeks) and even after I reported this with replays I could see (following him) that he got only less than 1 month ban from official races - but could go on using practice, TT, ghost and all other of iRacings services.
So here we have a fully intentional wrecker but because he pay his fee to iRacing they just accept him anyway.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: I still have the replays somewhere

 

[Kimmo Kokkonen]

League is the best place for experienced driver if you have time to join all races and practice 10 to 20 hours in 2 weeks

I was a member of Presto GP about 10 years ago, it was so good then, we used Simbin's Race07/GTR Evolution sim and 2007 F1 mod. It was super cool to be a part of that group, you could trust in any guys in any situations on the track. Unfortunately league changed sim / mod to old rFactor1 as newer 2010 F1 mod found for that sim and they thought it is good. I'm the most biggest rFactor1 hater in the world, sim is good for modding and fun, but it sucks online. Online racing was horrible as steering wheel setups could not become stable at all. Also that new F1 2010 mod had a horrible tire model. So I quit.

It is hard to find any better than Presto GP was in 2010. Our last summer R3E FR90 races were close but we didn't have enough drivers, in Presto GP we had 12 or 13 teams and 2 cars per team, that was a real racing. Also we had League A and B, everyone should start from League B and should show his talent to raise to League A. Also Team leader could choose his drivers and we had 107 % rule like real F1. Too slow driver was automatically out from the qualy and race. Of Course I was League A driver

It is still alive

Presto GP

rFactor 2 based F1 action. Official Website: www.presto.com

www.racedepartment.com

 

[UMC 22]

Leagues do tend to be higher standard, but it still relies on the community hosting it to have a respectful member base and good rule set / penalties. RD leagues tend to be pretty clean for the most part, but I joined an F1 league last year where the standards were well below par. I even got taken out by a backmarker trying to race me at one point. Gave up after two races because it was clearly not worth the time and frustration.

 

[BrunoBæ]

in Presto GP we had 12 or 13 teams and 2 cars per team, that was a real racing. Also we had League A and B, everyone should start from League B and should show his talent to raise to League A. Also Team leader could choose his drivers and we had 107 % rule like real F1. Too slow driver was automatically out from the qualy and race. Of Course I was League A driver

Ofcourse you were Kimmo
That Presto GP thing sounds like some kind of dream/ideal.
I have good memories myself from a GTP mod league(FSB).

But conserning rF2 I have deleted it from my PC because of too many technical problems.
Eventhough I still consider their TM leading the market. At least how it works for some cars.
Conserning my own future plans then I will try to find a populated Raceroom openwheeler league - and because that is probably impossible then I will reeducate myself in either the Group-C or P2 cars and then try to find a league using these cars.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: If just iRacing created a TM similar to rF2 or Raceroom (= same behaviour) then I would resub. But I have been following the "progress" of their V7 and dont want to vaste my money on that.

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

When you're paying a monthly subscription for something, you respect it more and take it more seriously. When a service has a subscription fee the overall number of people actively using the service is lower and does not include "random users" with nothing to lose. When you're in a restricted community you don't want to alienate yourself by being a complete arsehole, because you'll end up being removed from people's races and unable to use the service you're paying for. And of course, if you're serious enough about racing to be happy with paying a monthly fee to do so, then your skill level is probably somewhat above average to begin with.

I get the opposite effect: Becuase I paid for it, and everyone around me paid for it, I just feel extra bad when I make a mistake because I'm throwing away my own and other people's money! D:

 

[BrunoBæ]

Quite honestly I cant find your "opposite effect" @Moeras.
Because just like Ross you are saying that because it costs money you make an extra effort to drive more carefully and clean.
And just like Ross you say that the end result is higher quality

 

[BrunoBæ]

In Racerooms official forum people are also beginning to experience the complete unskilled "drivers" on the ranked server.
And eventhough none of the mandatory old satisfied members have proposed something then this new guy on the block is actually proposing a completely basic but anyway a useable way to sort the worst from the complete unskilled kindergarten away.

In almost all racing a driver cannot enter without some basic proof of competence. Qualifying is a simple way to place people in a position with similar drivers. It does not follow that a driver will always perform the same in any car, anytime, on any circuit. So why are drivers allowed to race without completing at least one clean lap within some reasonable time? If no time is set could they be made to start from the pit?

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: If the unskilled (mentioned) idiot who took me out on Monza allready before first corner had been forced to start from pit then I and the skilled polesitter could probably have had a reasonable race.