Cold tires for 2022 ?

[Antony Snook]

I heard tire warmers will be out in 2023. This scares me as unless Perelli make a real good tire model this will make havock. You will have somone on cold tires pushing hard to get temprature in them and somone of hot tires close to a pitstop. And boom the driver on hot tires has to get around somone on colds. And cold tires will throw you of the track. I remember Mr Berger at Hungary flooring it out the pit lane and binning it in the wall as his tires where not quite hot enough.

 

[Antony Snook]

I got the date wrong as i said 2022 intead of 20223. Can only edit post not tittle.

 

[jgf]

I've favored dumping tire warmers for years. "Indycar" gets by without them, NASCARE gets by without them, GT racing gets by without them, LMP gets by without them; apparently F1 drivers are the only ones incapable of handling cold tires.

 

[RichardHessels]

It's good, makes the smarter drivers go faster.
More room for driver errors.
Saves a shitload of energy also.
As all the tire-combos for the 20 teams need have to be hot & ready.
They already slashed the mount of tire blankets from 40 per team to 20 this year.

 

[Antony Snook]

I've favored dumping tire warmers for years. "Indycar" gets by without them, NASCARE gets by without them, GT racing gets by without them, LMP gets by without them; apparently F1 drivers are the only ones incapable of handling cold tires.

NASCAR and touring cars don't need them as they have full body's and more down-force over tire so it heats up quicker. F1 is open wheel like Indycar. I cant comment on the IRL series as i don't watch it as spec racing boars me. Though Indy use a different airo package than F1.

 

[jgf]

NASCAR and touring cars don't need them as they have full body's and more down-force ...

NASCARE has more downforce than an F1 car?!

 

[Deleted member 1066209]

NASCARE has more downforce than an F1 car?!

Why do you call it NASCARE?

 

[jgf]

Why do you call it NASCARE?

The final "E" for "Entertainment", as with WWE.

 

[bi11y]

I cant comment on the IRL series as i don't watch it as spec racing boars me. Though Indy use a different airo package than F1.

Indycar has been awesome the last few seasons. More interesting races due to different strategies due to same cars and a better combination of tyres, not sure how much refuelling adds to it. More drivers are competitive with a genuine chance to win races.

Qualifying process in Indycar with groups of less cars on track and using an offset timing line to get cars quickly off track is great. Some of the 'road course' tracks are just epic.

 

[jgf]

Indycar has been awesome the last few seasons. ...

Matter of opinion. I view "Indycar" as a pale shadow of the CART years. Virtually spec series running NASCARE style rules (one car spins in one corner on a 4.5 mile road course and they call a full course yellow? red flag for rain?). Cars that resemble open wheel front end, Canam rear end, and only needing another square foot of metal to be tin tops. None of the current drivers are near the stature of an Andretti, Foyt, Mears, Unser, or Fittipaldi. And consider - thirty years ago the reigning F1 champion came to Indycar and it was seen as a sideways move; an F1 driver, much less the champion, going to "Indycar" today would be considered a step down (probably several steps).

The CART/IRL split also split the sponsor base and fan base, and neither series thrived. When they merged back it was too little too late, it will be at least another generation, if ever, before they achieve their former glory. More likely they will cruise along as a little homegrown alleged open wheel series with only the allure of the Indy 500 to maintain them.

The cars do sound good though.

 

[Antony Snook]

NASCARE has more downforce than an F1 car?!

Yes there are less wings on a NASCAR and the body has more surface area.

 

[Antony Snook]

Matter of opinion. I view "Indycar" as a pale shadow of the CART years. Virtually spec series running NASCARE style rules (one car spins in one corner on a 4.5 mile road course and they call a full course yellow? red flag for rain?). Cars that resemble open wheel front end, Canam rear end, and only needing another square foot of metal to be tin tops. None of the current drivers are near the stature of an Andretti, Foyt, Mears, Unser, or Fittipaldi. And consider - thirty years ago the reigning F1 champion came to Indycar and it was seen as a sideways move; an F1 driver, much less the champion, going to "Indycar" today would be considered a step down (probably several steps).

The CART/IRL split also split the sponsor base and fan base, and neither series thrived. When they merged back it was too little too late, it will be at least another generation, if ever, before they achieve their former glory. More likely they will cruise along as a little homegrown alleged open wheel series with only the allure of the Indy 500 to maintain them.

The cars do sound good though.

I gues you are talking about Nigel Mansell. I went to Toronto Indy in 1993 after emigrating to Canada. I found it boaring and the only kick i got was talking to Mario Andretti. He was in the pits and being ignored. Nigel his team mate was taking attention from him. Nigel was the bigest name in the series as the F1 tittle is worth more. Other drivers have gone there after poor performance in F1. Even Jimmie Jhonson from NASCAR is in there. The bottom line if you watch say sportscar like Leman 24 hours F1 drivers or ex F1 drivers seem to be better. Juan Pablo Montoya won a race last weekend, He did F1 and NASCAR now hes in a Prototype sportscar.

 

[jgf]

Yes there are less wings on a NASCAR and the body has more surface area.

And that surface area causes more drag, in addition the NASCARE car weighs over twice as much as an F1 car and has a much higher center of gravity. According to published specs, both series can produce about 3500lbs downforce, but in the "stock" cars (and I use the term loosely) over half the downforce is mechanical not aero, and current NASCARE regs call for a reduction to 1500lbs max downforce and more powerful engines. Thus an F1 car can produce over twice its weight in downforce where a current "stock" car produces less than 50%.

I still say dump the tire warmers and let the F1 drivers adapt, like all other drivers. (But please don't go the route of NASCARE's idiotic arbitrarily programmed "competition yellow" so "the drivers can check their tires". Apparently while F1 drivers cannot handle cold tires, NASCARE drivers cannot tell when theirs are worn.)

 

[jgf]

I gues you are talking about Nigel Mansell. I went to Toronto Indy in 1993 after emigrating to Canada. I found it boaring and the only kick i got was talking to Mario Andretti. He was in the pits and being ignored. Nigel his team mate was taking attention from him. Nigel was the bigest name in the series as the F1 tittle is worth more. Other drivers have gone there after poor performance in F1. Even Jimmie Jhonson from NASCAR is in there. The bottom line if you watch say sportscar like Leman 24 hours F1 drivers or ex F1 drivers seem to be better. Juan Pablo Montoya won a race last weekend, He did F1 and NASCAR now hes in a Prototype sportscar.

Just my point. It would be seen as a definite step down for a modern F1 driver to go to "Indycar" today, but it wasn't thirty years ago. Solely due to today's "Indycar" being a far cry from the CART of those years.

 

[bi11y]

Matter of opinion. I view "Indycar" as a pale shadow of the CART years. Virtually spec series running NASCARE style rules (one car spins in one corner on a 4.5 mile road course and they call a full course yellow? red flag for rain?). Cars that resemble open wheel front end, Canam rear end, and only needing another square foot of metal to be tin tops. None of the current drivers are near the stature of an Andretti, Foyt, Mears, Unser, or Fittipaldi. And consider - thirty years ago the reigning F1 champion came to Indycar and it was seen as a sideways move; an F1 driver, much less the champion, going to "Indycar" today would be considered a step down (probably several steps).

Yes it's a matter of opinion, but ones I have my reasons...

Criticism of safety process for full course yellows, and red flags in the rain.... have you seen the debacle that is Fl for the last couple of seasons?

It is an opinion but I really really like the current indycar look - I think the previous was not so good and the current one looks clunky from a couple of angles but most of the time it looks awesome. The new Fl cars look great from most angles too, but too much like a aeroplane that stays on the ground and I would like them too be more like cars.

In my opinion Fl is a step down (probably several steps) than what it was 10 years ago.

Mostly my opinion in this is based on how competitive the series is as a sport and how entertaining it is as a sport - for my opinion and interest Fl is currently behind Indycar and also behind Formula e.

I do think that phasing out the tyre warmers will be a good thing for Fl.

 

[Antony Snook]

People like Indy as it is spec racing that seems mentally that it would be better. Same airo and small selection of power units. But the W series i have seen Chadwick win them all bar Hungary where she was 2nd. So having clones run around dose not make it competitive. Just dull to me. And F1 has had more than 2 (3 Verstappen,Perez and Leclerc) So it is not like Max has dominated. He retired a bit in the early stages. But in racing consistence y wins over wins.

 

[bi11y]

People like Indy as it is spec racing that seems mentally that it would be better. Same airo and small selection of power units. But the W series i have seen Chadwick win them all bar Hungary where she was 2nd. So having clones run around dose not make it competitive. Just dull to me. And F1 has had more than 2 (3 Verstappen,Perez and Leclerc) So it is not like Max has dominated. He retired a bit in the early stages. But in racing consistence y wins over wins.

Does the W series end up with a simple inevitably similar race strategy?

With similar equipment it is very likely that a strong competitor can dominate a series - like the Usain Bolt scenario... An incredible competitor will make predictable outcomes that sometimes make it less interesting.

However, Indycar isn't quite "always the same" scenario... There is widely varied tracks with different surface and layouts, the fuel and tyre sitation means that very rarely is it possible with one pitstop so a team can't always cover off the opposition because a decision at an early stop could have implications for a second or third stop...

Indycar had 9 different race winners this season so I'm confused by reference to W series?

If Fl can get their tyre situation a bit more like Indycar so it is more of a challenge for the teams and drivers then it would be a good thing.