CPU upgrade needed!

Interslice

Club Staff
Premium
Recently picked up an rtx 3070 and odyssey plus. With some messing about with reduced settings/apps i have it going ok now and a solid 90fps but thats at 90% cpu usage leaving no room for crew cheif or any sort of screen recording.
There is alot of fps drop now if i try and record the AC replays at 60fps now.

Other specs.
Noctua NH-U9S Slim CPU Cooler
16GB 2x8GB CMK16GX4M2B3000C15
Intel Core I5 7600K S1151 Kaby Asus 18% auto overclock...
Prime Z270-A Motherboard

Where do i go from here? Is it worth getting a new motherboard?

Thanks in advance.
 
If you don't get a new mobo all you have is an 8700k right? It is certainly an upgrade getting 12 threads but for that money I'm sure there are better solutions. But any other solution does require a new mobo.

Not sure tbh. A bit clueless with the whole compatibility side of it.
 
Recently picked up an rtx 3070 and odyssey plus. With some messing about with reduced settings/apps i have it going ok now and a solid 90fps but thats at 90% cpu usage leaving no room for crew cheif or any sort of screen recording.
There is alot of fps drop now if i try and record the AC replays at 60fps now.

Other specs.
Noctua NH-U9S Slim CPU Cooler
16GB 2x8GB CMK16GX4M2B3000C15
Intel Core I5 7600K S1151 Kaby Asus 18% auto overclock...
Prime Z270-A Motherboard

Where do i go from here? Is it worth getting a new motherboard?

Thanks in advance.

Hi Brian, can I ask what game you were using when you hit '90% cpu usage' and how many cars were on the grid @ the time? Also, what was the gpu usage? - ramping up the graphics can have a detrimental impact on cpu performance (i.e., Sol mod), but not as much as number of cars in the race.

If the game is AC, and you've not already tested your VR set up with a large grid, I think that that you will find that it will struggle to maintain 90fps. I suspect ASW (45fps) would kick in. If your uncomfortable with ASW, there is an option to set the Odyssey+ to 60hz but there would be a trade off with the FOV (border) - basically :poop:.

AC uses up to 4 threads. On a quad cpu (7600K), that doesn't leave much room for extras. CPU upgrade wise, I think you're limited to a 7700K (I'm not sure that the 8700K is compatible with a Z270 chipset), which, sadly, are going for silly prices on ebay (more than a 10600k).

To give some perspective, I currently have a Ryzen 5600X, and a 1080ti with my Odyssey+ & I could maintain 90fps for 99% of the time in last Sunday's AC RD club race - not a perfect score, with the odd frame dropping in to the 70s (mainly @ the start). Prior to the 5600X, I had a Ryzen 3600X and my system struggled with more than 22+ cars on the grid. I imagine the 7700K would be in the same boat as the 3600X.

If you're looking to upgrade i would recommend going down the Intel route, especially as Intel's next gen. cpu's are going to be compatible with the current 10th gen motherboards.
 
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Thanks for the detailed response Patrick. I'll have to read that a few times and google some bits to digest it all!

90-95% usage is big grid online in AC with TS and the headset running. 80-90 % on practice server. I've CSP and SOL and video setting running on low to lowest settings pretty much. I found turning CSP off made it worse. I think I'm running a true 90fps according the content manager. Not sure on the gpu usage. I think both RAM and gpu are at 50 percent

I'm starting windows virtual app, then steam, steam VR and finally content manager before joining a race. I noticed in the windows display settings i have 4 monitors running at this point.. Not sure if I'm doing it wrong and overworking the system unnecessarily.

Screenshot_20210206-154957.png


I'm also thinking of a clean windows install to skim of the bloatware that has built up over the last 4 years.
 
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I just use the vanilla version of AC. I've never really been interested in SOL & CSP, but it sounds like the game is running well if you're not experiencing any frame drops, stuttering, etc., and you're getting a solid 90fps. The only reason I upgraded from an Intel i7 3770 to a Ryzen 3600X, and ultimately to a 5600X was because my PC systems couldn't achieve/sustain 90fps.
 
I just use the vanilla version of AC. I've never really been interested in SOL & CSP, but it sounds like the game is running well if you're not experiencing any frame drops, stuttering, etc., and you're getting a solid 90fps. The only reason I upgraded from an Intel i7 3770 to a Ryzen 3600X, and ultimately to a 5600X was because my PC systems couldn't achieve/sustain 90fps.

I could be very wrong but i think CM with CSP/sol on lowest setting may be able to run the game more efficiently than the vanilla version. I tried the vanilla and it was unplayable but didn't really get deep into the settings.
 
I just use the vanilla version of AC. I've never really been interested in SOL & CSP, but it sounds like the game is running well if you're not experiencing any frame drops, stuttering, etc., and you're getting a solid 90fps. The only reason I upgraded from an Intel i7 3770 to a Ryzen 3600X, and ultimately to a 5600X was because my PC systems couldn't achieve/sustain 90fps.
I could be very wrong but i think CM with CSP/sol on lowest setting may be able to run the game more efficiently than the vanilla version. I tried the vanilla and it was unplayable but didn't really get deep into the settings.
There are a few important things:
Sol afaik always increases the workload for both cpu and gpu!
I'm not sure if the lowest settings (performance preset afaik in the sol app?) is less demanding than the default weather though.

However the big thing is CSP:
- there are quite a few good cpu optimizations available and selected at default
- there is hardware accelerated custom font rendering for hud apps!!!
- there is a lot of extra stuff that definitely puts more work on the cpu and especially the gpu.

Example:
I'm using basically everything from csp.
I did a benchmark via afterburner, playing the first lap of our zandvoort race (32 multiplayer) in cockpit view.
Result:
With csp: 105 fps average, 70-80% gpu load on my 3070 at 3440x1440. Cpu bottleneck

Without csp: 83 fps average, 30-40% gpu load, very clear cpu bottleneck

So you can see that the cpu optimizations from csp gain me 22 fps on average but also all the extra goodies double my graphics card load.


The main cpu issue with AC are the hud apps, reflection update rate and general polygon count.
So no hud, reflections on static and reduced world details are the most important settings for high fps. Also disabling post processing is quite a huge impact but you also lose a lot of visual quality and no brake lights anymore!

With csp, the impact of the hud apps is massively reduced (custom font rendering).

The issue here is that ac has 2 big main cpu threads (process explorer - properties of the running ac exe - threads) And the hud apps are rendered inside of the bigger of these 2 threads.
When your cpu has 3 cores or more, that one big thread will hit the single thread performance limit of your cpu instead of all threads together reaching the overall cpu limit.

So while only at 8.3% overall cpu load with a 12 thread cpu (100% / 12 threads = 8.33% maximum per cpu thread), the fps are bottlenecked by it.
In reality windows spreads the load on multiple cores very quickly so in Taskmanager it looks like all cores are used, but not fully.
But that's only an average! If Taskmanager would update with the cpu clockspeed, you would actually see each core getting to full load and then idling while the next core get to full load.
1s refresh rate in Taskmanager means 4.9 mrd cpu cycles averaged on my 4.9 GHz cpu clock.

I did a huge benchmark afternoon for acc and deactivated hyperthreading and cores on my 10600k.
After having 5 active cores, activating the 6th core didn't gain me anything.
Hyperthreading even caused lower fps!

With only 4 cores, hyperthreading increased fps by quite a bit but not as much as activating the 5th core!

ACC uses one more big thread, especially with AI instead of multiplayer.
So for ac, 4 cpu cores are fine, in theory. It's getting close though, as we can see from the 80-90% cpu load for Brian!


About cpu upgrades:
For simracing you need Single core, single core and single core performance!
And then 5 cores minimum to have some headroom.

AMD 3600: way lower single core performance compared to Intels 9th or 10th gen. The issue mainly is that you can easily slap a 9600k to 5 GHz on all cores but with amd it's a bit more complicated from what I've read.
The confusing thing is that single core benchmarks look very good for the amds. But when you play a game, the boost will drop, since the cpu slightly loads 3-5 cores and not just 1 core. When you overclock all cores, it will only become stable at so much lower clocks, that letting the cpu boost automatically actually gives more fps.
With pbo you can increase this boosting though.

Intel 8th, 9th,10th Gen:
Basically the same single core performance. More cores, hyperthreading, new chipsets and with 10th core even a new socket.
6 cores would be a nice upgrade for you! But I'm not sure that your board is compatible with the 8700k. Also you would first need to find a cheap 8700k... Or 8600k.

AMD 5600x: hands down best gaming cpu right now. Blows Intel 10th Gen out of the water in single core performance.
Problem: current situation inflated the price!
Second problem: amd is known for upgrade compatibility but Ryzen 5000 is the last gen with ddr4 and the current socket.

Intel 11th gen: will probably very slightly beat amd 5000 in single core performance and will be plug & play with 10th Gen z490 boards.
But it will very likely be less energy efficient than amd 5000...
I'm definitely getting a i5 11600k to easily gain 20% fps compared to my 10600k.
Issue: also last gen on ddr4 so no future compatibility...

About Intel: they used the skylake architecture and 14 nanometer process for 6th,7th,8th,9th,10th Gen. Only slight updates...
11th Gen will be using the architecture that was planned for the 10nm process. It got upscaled to 14nm now.


Upgrades for you:
- 7700k for not more than 50 pounds on top (after selling the 7600k)
Thid would only give you hyperthreading. Headroom for background processes but only a few fps...

- 8600k/8700k for not more than 100/130 pounds difference. Make sure that it's compatible with your exact mobo!
This would give you 2 cores and a bit of general speed. Probably 10-15% higher fps.

- amd 5600x + b550 mobo
This would be a huuuuge fps boost! Easily 100 fps in ac at all times.

- upcoming Intel 11600k + z490 mobo
Same as 5600x and no cold feet in winter :p

PC Hardware market is a mess right now... I hope the 11600k won't be more than 280€ and actually available...


Question: what's your actual cpu clock with 18% auto oc? You should download hwinfo64, run it in "sensors only" config (you can select that when starting it) and check the maximum for each core and also the max temperature for each core.
Just start it, then watch a replay for 5 minutes or do a quick race with 20 ai and then check the maximums.
Noctua u9s is great for its size but might struggle, when you push the 7600k to the limit..
 
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Update: I had a look at how ti make z270 compatible with 8th Gen and.. It isn't...
In theory you can mod it to make it work but I wouldn't do it...

Just sell your motherboard + cpu. Maybe even with cooler and ram so you'll have less experienced people in the buyers pot too that will be able to just screw the mobo in their case and run it like you built it.

Still interested in the clock speeds of your 7600k!

If you want a comparison for ac/acc performance compared to other cpus, do a cinebench R15 run and set the "advanced settings" to 3 threads, run it and then 4 threads and run it again.
The truth lies somewhere between these runs and you can compare it very well.

In other threads I already gathered the results for multiple cpu's :)

I'm on my phone right now but it's not complicated. Cinebench R15 is free and you just need to extract a zip and run the exe.
Then top left corner menu, advanced something and type in 3 threads.
To run that 3 thread benchmark, you need to click on the standard "run" button next to cpu.
Don't click on "run all" or the gpu run or the single core run!

That way you can see what an upgrade to 8th Gen, 9th Gen or 10th Gen would give you.
I also have data for Ryzen 5000 :)
 
There are a few important things:
Sol afaik always increases the workload for both cpu and gpu!
I'm not sure if the lowest settings (performance preset afaik in the sol app?) is less demanding than the default weather though.

However the big thing is CSP:
- there are quite a few good cpu optimizations available and selected at default
- there is hardware accelerated custom font rendering for hud apps!!!
- there is a lot of extra stuff that definitely puts more work on the cpu and especially the gpu.

Example:
I'm using basically everything from csp.
I did a benchmark via afterburner, playing the first lap of our zandvoort race (32 multiplayer) in cockpit view.
Result:
With csp: 105 fps average, 70-80% gpu load on my 3070 at 3440x1440. Cpu bottleneck

Without csp: 83 fps average, 30-40% gpu load, very clear cpu bottleneck

So you can see that the cpu optimizations from csp gain me 22 fps on average but also all the extra goodies double my graphics card load.


The main cpu issue with AC are the hud apps, reflection update rate and general polygon count.
So no hud, reflections on static and reduced world details are the most important settings for high fps. Also disabling post processing is quite a huge impact but you also lose a lot of visual quality and no brake lights anymore!

With csp, the impact of the hud apps is massively reduced (custom font rendering).

The issue here is that ac has 2 big main cpu threads (process explorer - properties of the running ac exe - threads) And the hud apps are rendered inside of the bigger of these 2 threads.
When your cpu has 3 cores or more, that one big thread will hit the single thread performance limit of your cpu instead of all threads together reaching the overall cpu limit.

So while only at 8.3% overall cpu load with a 12 thread cpu (100% / 12 threads = 8.33% maximum per cpu thread), the fps are bottlenecked by it.
In reality windows spreads the load on multiple cores very quickly so in Taskmanager it looks like all cores are used, but not fully.
But that's only an average! If Taskmanager would update with the cpu clockspeed, you would actually see each core getting to full load and then idling while the next core get to full load.
1s refresh rate in Taskmanager means 4.9 mrd cpu cycles averaged on my 4.9 GHz cpu clock.

I did a huge benchmark afternoon for acc and deactivated hyperthreading and cores on my 10600k.
After having 5 active cores, activating the 6th core didn't gain me anything.
Hyperthreading even caused lower fps!

With only 4 cores, hyperthreading increased fps by quite a bit but not as much as activating the 5th core!

ACC uses one more big thread, especially with AI instead of multiplayer.
So for ac, 4 cpu cores are fine, in theory. It's getting close though, as we can see from the 80-90% cpu load for Brian!


About cpu upgrades:
For simracing you need Single core, single core and single core performance!
And then 5 cores minimum to have some headroom.

AMD 3600: way lower single core performance compared to Intels 9th or 10th gen. The issue mainly is that you can easily slap a 9600k to 5 GHz on all cores but with amd it's a bit more complicated from what I've read.
The confusing thing is that single core benchmarks look very good for the amds. But when you play a game, the boost will drop, since the cpu slightly loads 3-5 cores and not just 1 core. When you overclock all cores, it will only become stable at so much lower clocks, that letting the cpu boost automatically actually gives more fps.
With pbo you can increase this boosting though.

Intel 8th, 9th,10th Gen:
Basically the same single core performance. More cores, hyperthreading, new chipsets and with 10th core even a new socket.
6 cores would be a nice upgrade for you! But I'm not sure that your board is compatible with the 8700k. Also you would first need to find a cheap 8700k... Or 8600k.

AMD 5600x: hands down best gaming cpu right now. Blows Intel 10th Gen out of the water in single core performance.
Problem: current situation inflated the price!
Second problem: amd is known for upgrade compatibility but Ryzen 5000 is the last gen with ddr4 and the current socket.

Intel 11th gen: will probably very slightly beat amd 5000 in single core performance and will be plug & play with 10th Gen z490 boards.
But it will very likely be less energy efficient than amd 5000...
I'm definitely getting a i5 11600k to easily gain 20% fps compared to my 10600k.
Issue: also last gen on ddr4 so no future compatibility...

About Intel: they used the skylake architecture and 14 nanometer process for 6th,7th,8th,9th,10th Gen. Only slight updates...
11th Gen will be using the architecture that was planned for the 10nm process. It got upscaled to 14nm now.


Upgrades for you:
- 7700k for not more than 50 pounds on top (after selling the 7600k)
Thid would only give you hyperthreading. Headroom for background processes but only a few fps...

- 8600k/8700k for not more than 100/130 pounds difference. Make sure that it's compatible with your exact mobo!
This would give you 2 cores and a bit of general speed. Probably 10-15% higher fps.

- amd 5600x + b550 mobo
This would be a huuuuge fps boost! Easily 100 fps in ac at all times.

- upcoming Intel 11600k + z490 mobo
Same as 5600x and no cold feet in winter :p

PC Hardware market is a mess right now... I hope the 11600k won't be more than 280€ and actually available...


Question: what's your actual cpu clock with 18% auto oc? You should download hwinfo64, run it in "sensors only" config (you can select that when starting it) and check the maximum for each core and also the max temperature for each core.
Just start it, then watch a replay for 5 minutes or do a quick race with 20 ai and then check the maximums.
Noctua u9s is great for its size but might struggle, when you push the 7600k to the limit..

Thanks so much for that rasmus. You've gone above and beyond again! As I said to Pat I will have to google the terminology during the week to fully digest it all.

I'll also post settings screenshots etc so it's comparable to others.

The 18% OC is a built in 'cpu/fan xpert' program the comes with the asus motherboard. You just hit the button and it runs various load tests and fan settings for about 20 minutes.. Not sure what the clock or voltage increase is in reality. I'll check it out. I've ran it previously and acheived 34 percent OC. Seemed like a scary number so went back to normal. It wasn't really needed at the time outside of rendering videos. That was with the side panel removed on my old case. I would guess there is some but not a huge amount of OC left in it. I'll run the tests you suggested to see where it's actually at.

Content manager fps monitor is giving me 90 fps in practice. The big online gt3 race last weekend was 88.7 or so. It has the odd stutter but it's generally fine. I'd guess it's briefly dropping to 70fps every few laps when the cpu get something extra to do. The only major driving related issues i'm having with it is the braking points being hard to see with the low settings. Coming into ascari the shadows are dancing all over the road.. From my monitor days with maximum world details I'm used to using the marks and features on the tarmac as braking points!

I'll report back with actual numbers to back up the waffle!
 
Update: I had a look at how ti make z270 compatible with 8th Gen and.. It isn't...
In theory you can mod it to make it work but I wouldn't do it...

Just sell your motherboard + cpu. Maybe even with cooler and ram so you'll have less experienced people in the buyers pot too that will be able to just screw the mobo in their case and run it like you built it.

Still interested in the clock speeds of your 7600k!

If you want a comparison for ac/acc performance compared to other cpus, do a cinebench R15 run and set the "advanced settings" to 3 threads, run it and then 4 threads and run it again.
The truth lies somewhere between these runs and you can compare it very well.

In other threads I already gathered the results for multiple cpu's :)

I'm on my phone right now but it's not complicated. Cinebench R15 is free and you just need to extract a zip and run the exe.
Then top left corner menu, advanced something and type in 3 threads.
To run that 3 thread benchmark, you need to click on the standard "run" button next to cpu.
Don't click on "run all" or the gpu run or the single core run!

That way you can see what an upgrade to 8th Gen, 9th Gen or 10th Gen would give you.
I also have data for Ryzen 5000 :)


Thanks again! I'll give it a whirl! I know the 7600k is a beast for single core. I was comfortably running ac at max setting ,all apps and acc at med-high settings(2560x1440). until VR entered the mix. It would still be a great buy for someone not interested in full settings acc/ triples/VR or streaming/ high def recording. Saying that i could stream and record fine when i had the gtx 1060 attached.
 
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I know the 7600k is a beast for single core.
Yep it's a really good CPU!
But then you look at this and it's just clear that for 90 fps in VR, you really want a new CPU :(


1612701057097.png



About your settings:
I think we could get you some settings back! But not sure which... But some things are really only hitting the graphics card so these could be set higher!
TAA from CSP, grass FX I guess too, maybe ambient occlusion...
 
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I think I need to reinstall windows for a start... I had my computer in storage from august to november. It hasn't been right since. Updates or someting.
 

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CPU has returned to 2 - 5% normal idle. Whatever it was up to for 10 minutes on launch i don't know.

ok figured it out. you can change the threads in 'preferences'

Not sure what the 3 vs 4 thread comparison tells me?
 

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I think I need to reinstall windows for a start... I had my computer in storage from august to november. It hasn't been right since. Updates or someting.
Ah, so probably 4.5 GHz set in the bios. My performance monitor shows 4.89 GHz instead of 4.9..

The cpu load is windows updates installing + scanning for malware.
Yes, don't ask me why the heck, but windows is scanning its own updates! :cautious::rolleyes::poop:
 

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