Critique my wheel choices for SC2

[gtojunkie]

I’m hoping for some feedback on my wireless wheel choices for the Simucube 2 Pro base. I’m considering getting the following:

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300mm w/ SRB BB Ultra​

• Wheel choice: likely Momo Team 30, since I can’t tell if OMP Trecento fits with SRB BB Ultra
• Vintage F1, Skip Barber, Modern Rally. Maybe GT3?

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Ascher F28-SC V2​

• Modern open wheel, GT3

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350mm bare​

• Wheel choice: Momo Montecarlo 350
• Vintage rally

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I welcome any feedback or criticism of my choices. At this time, I'm leaning toward leather and not suede nor alcantara. I'm not considering D or square shaped wheels because I don't understand them and I'm afraid to try new things. I'm in the USA, in case that impacts input. A few specific questions:

1. Can anyone confirm if SRB BB Ultra fits OMP Trecento?
2. Does 300 vs. 320 feel significant? Will I regret the 300 and yearn for the 320?
3. Does 350 vs. 330 feel significant? Will 350 feel massive in my hands?

Thanks!

 

[Elaphe]

I tried a 35 cm rim (OMP Corsica) and I found it too big. 33 or 32 cm is the perfect size for me. 30 cm is also fine for old F1, Caterhams, Radicals, etc for a more direct and extreme racing driving. I had the momo Montecarlo 320 in leather. Very nice rim, with a quite oval-shaped grip. However, I prefer my current rim, which is the Sparco Champion, 32 cm in perforated leather and semi-dished, completelly rounded (no bulges not grip zones) and with a very subtle oval grip shape. It's perfect for everything, and sublime for drifting or if you like moving your hands a lot when driving. If you choose leather, don't forget to buy a good pair of gloves with silicone inserts on the palms (you will need that for good grip)

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Momo Team 30 is too heavy. For a round wheel take a look at Sport Line/APS Imola 300, comes in suede or leather.

 

[stigs2cousin]

If possible choose a lighter rim for more FFB dynamics and details.

Also try to get them into roughly the same position, meaning the bare wheel should ne dished or use spacers

For most modern cars I use a Fanatec R300, 300mm and quite light and nimble, fits the normal 70mm PCD. Should be available used.

For Vintage cars its a 350mm dished OMP for me with H-Pattern shifter.
Dished wheels don't work too well with paddel shifters.

Leather would be the smarter choice for wheels that look nicer for longer, gloves are a given.


MFG Carsten

 

[Deleted member 1066209]

Do lighter rims actually make a difference for the Simucube 2? I was under the assumption that only weaker wheelbases would have to worry about that issue.

I've had an OMP Trecento and I really liked it. It was fairly light and the grips are comfortable. My only gripe with that rim is that it rotates like an egg, because the top portion of the rim is longer than the bottom half (so that the instrument cluster is easily viewed when installed in a real vehicle). This non-round shape makes it a bit harder to catch major slides and perform drifts. I think it will work very well for GT racing, given that you're not constantly losing the rear.

I purchased a MOMO Typ D 30 in an attempt to find a 300mm rim that will rotate roundly. This rim still rotates like an egg, although it does so quite mildly. Performing drifts is easier, but it is MUCH heavier than the OMP Trecento (from my guess, it feels like it's 1.5x heavier). On the other hand, the ergonomics of this wheel is far better than the Trecento's.

Finally, I decided to step up to a 320mm rim instead, since the selection of 300mm is limited (especially so for perfectly round rims). I purchased a Fanatec Clubsport 320mm. It's fairly comfortable, but doesn't match up to the OMP or the MOMO. I do like the fact that it is round and extremely lightweight (due to it being designed solely for simracing). I enjoy drifting with it and the FFB of my T300 is transferred very well.

I've primarily been using the 320mm Clubsport because of it's perfectly round shape. The 320mm does allow for marginally better car control, since steering inputs can be more precise. I really did like the 300mm wheels too, since it allowed for faster steering inputs. I'd pick a 300mm for GT racing, and a 320mm for almost everything else (street cars, rally, drifting). If you could only pick one, then I would highly suggest the 320mm Fanatec Clubsport (especially if weight is a consideration with the SC2).

 

[Elaphe]

Off-centered rims are a disgrace. I tried a momo Tuner (32 cm) and it was absolutelly unacceptable. The 35 cm version is centered, but some some reason the 32 cm is not. So, yes, it's a very important factor to consider when buying a steering wheel.

As regard weight, I don't think the difference is important enough to determine your choice if you have a good direct drive motor. 200 or 300 gr more or less wont be noticeable. Just don't install a one of those unnecesarily heavy button boxes, or don't install any button box at all. Some weight more than 1 kg, which is crazy.

What you said about paddles on dished rims is correct. However, you can design your own mount and have an excellent ergonomy and comfort.

 

[Rebel_488]

Same ascher as u listed and a 350mm deep dish motamec for drifting

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Do lighter rims actually make a difference for the Simucube 2?

In my experience they do. It's not a deal breaking difference per se, but you will have additional inertia you'll have no way to get rid off. With lighter rim on the other hand you can add some to your liking with Inertia filter.
It depends really of what you are after, extra damping and sluggishness of heavier wheel might actually more to your liking.
One thing for sure you would need different profiles (in game and TD) if wheel weight and diameter vary drastically.

But Momo Team 30 is really, really heavy. Never seen any rim like that.

 

[Elaphe]

I'm sure the inertia of adding 3 cm to the diameter of a rim is much higher than that of adding 500 gr to the total weight, especially considering that most of the weight is on the spokes of the rim. Any physicist here to do the calculations?

 

[stigs2cousin]

The important wheight for the inertia is in the rim itself and of course it´s diameter. The buttonbox is of less importance because it´s closer to the center, so it´s "momentum arm" is shorter
( Could some Physics Professor please put the scientific explanation here, can´t be assed to google it) Thank you.

And yes, i can feel it and use different TD profiles for different rim sizes and wheights.

The lighter rims feel more nimble and and more detailed in the FFB.

On the other hand a brute like the Shelby Cobra driven with high Torque feels definitely more "realistic" with a heavy and big wheel when your "wrestle" it around the track.


MFG Carsten

 

[blekenbleu]

Any physicist here to do the calculations?

@RasmusP explains the math, with example

FWIW, driving an old manual steering car with a small diameter wheel feels weird to me; I switch to larger diameter and forfeit some FFB detail.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

https://i.gifer.com/Foeg.gif

 

[alfye20]

@RasmusP explains the math, with example

FWIW, driving an old manual steering car with a small diameter wheel feels weird to me; I switch to larger diameter and forfeit some FFB detail.

Just driving Lotus 79T with H patern shifter and a 3DRap vintage Personal replica with ∅ 26cm, nothing else come close

 

[blekenbleu]

driving Lotus 79T

Oops, dating myself (Lotus 79 seems not so old to me);
my mid-60s sports racer also had a small diameter rim.
I should have said "cars with large diameter rims in real life",
typically front engined, e.g. E-type Jaguar.

 

[Rebel_488]

Boomer

 

[RasmusP]

Reading through this threat, getting my old onenote sheet with all the inertia equations ready, marking quotes, rolling up my sleeves (lol as if, I'm sitting here only in underwear due to the heat), getting ready to write something...

And then my old post gets quoted and my brain can simply flush its buffers

Summary:
The important thing to know about inertia is that the distance from the rotation-center gets squared, the mass doesn't.
Then, depending on the form (ring, rectangle), you get a factor in front of the calculation.

But to give the most important equations in here too:
For the outer rim, a hollow cylinder:
I = 1/2 * mass * (Inner radius squared + outer radius squared)

And for a button box:
I = 1/12 * mass * (length² + width²)

The depths don't matter due to the rotation-axis being in the center-points.

So the weight does matter, however weight further away from the rotation center makes way more difference than weight close to the center.
Meaning a 2cm wider wheel or a wheel with a slightly heavier outer-rim is often way more critical than a 1kg+ button plate in the center.

I personally find higher inertia and damper settings more immersive so I could probably like a heavier, bigger wheel and simply lower these 2 settings but as Andrew said:
Theoretically it's better to have a lighter wheel and raise the settings.
Gives you more room to dial in the perfect settings for your immersion!

 

[gtojunkie]

Strange, I was not getting updates, so I thought I had only 1 response. Oops! This has been super useful!

A few questions:​

• When you say a wheel comes in leather, are you using suede and leather interchangeably? For example, the Sport Line Imola wheel description says “black suede leather”
• Question for @Andrew_WOT (or anyone, of course) regarding the Sport Line Imola 300
  • Is the mounting centered, so it does not rotate like an egg? It appears to be off-center, like the Momo 30 or the OMP Trecento

A few thoughts after reading through the discussion​

• Rims with off-center mounts rotate like an egg and ruin the experience
  • No Momo Team 30 (plus it weighs a metric ton)
  • No OMP Trecento
  • No Momo Tuner 32
• For me, D-shaped wheels are not under consideration. I won’t be drifting, but for old style rally, vintage F1, and the Skippy, there’s too much wheel rotation for me to consider using a D-shaped wheel
• For me, button box with shifter paddles is a must for my small (30-32 cm) wheel (despite offending @Elaphe 's purist sensibilities )

Updated Candidates​

• For “small” 30-32cm w/ button box and paddle shifters
  • Momo Montecarlo 32 cm
  • Sportline Imola 300, unless mounting is off-center
  • Fanatec Clubsport 320, though this requires me getting over my strong and probably irrational bias against Fanatec
• For “large” 35 cm wheel with no button box and no paddle shifters
  • Momo Montecarlo 35 cm
  • Motamec deep dish 35 cm
  • (Whether 35 is “too big” seems to be down to personal preference)

 

[stigs2cousin]

• • Fanatec Clubsport 320, though this requires me getting over my strong and probably irrational bias against Fanatec

After reading in the forums
and personal experience of a friend your fears are in no way irrational

But: its a goddam steering wheel, so zero mechanical and electronic parts, so how hard can it be??
(Fanatec: hold my beer )


Joking aside, I got mine (very slightly) used for 80€ and its well designed and made.
The rim was a little thin coming from the TM Sparco 310 but I fot used to it very quickly and its my favorite wheel at the moment.

MFG Carsten

 

[Deleted member 1066209]

• When you say a wheel comes in leather, are you using suede and leather interchangeably? For example, the Sport Line Imola wheel description says “black suede leather”

No, I won't use suede and leather interchangeably. Although I do have to mention that the quality of leather varies between the wheels.

The Momo Typ D 30 has some of the best leather I've ever felt. It's incredibly grippy on my bare hands. On the other hand, the leather of the Fanatec 320 Clubsport and the OMP Trecento are quite slippery in comparison. Those two wheels were purchased new (and the Momo was used), so the difference might lie there.

I also forgot to mention some other places with steering wheels for sim usage. NRG has some 350mm wheels and MPI has wheels of varying shapes and diameters. They're very lightweight due to being designed solely for sim racing. MPI covers some of their wheels with their own unique material called "SuperGrip" or "RaceGrip" and it's incredible. It's a synthetic material that is very durable and grippy with bare hands.

But: its a goddam steering wheel, so zero mechanical and electronic parts, so how hard can it be??
(Fanatec: hold my beer )

Sadly it isn't as ergonomic as my OMP or Momo. But, like you said, it's easily gotten over.

 

[stigs2cousin]

No, I won't use suede and leather interchangeably. Although I do have to mention that the quality of leather varies between the wheels.

The Momo Typ D 30 has some of the best leather I've ever felt. It's incredibly grippy on my bare hands. On the other hand, the leather of the Fanatec 320 Clubsport and the OMP Trecento are quite slippery in comparison. Those two wheels were purchased new (and the Momo was used), so the difference might lie there.

I also forgot to mention some other places with steering wheels for sim usage. NRG has some 350mm wheels and MPI has wheels of varying shapes and diameters. They're very lightweight due to being designed solely for sim racing. MPI covers some of their wheels with their own unique material called "SuperGrip" or "RaceGrip" and it's incredible. It's a synthetic material that is very durable and grippy with bare hands.




Sadly it isn't as ergonomic as my OMP or Momo. But, like you said, it's easily gotten over.

I was referring to the chance to get pissed of by Fanatec longterm quality and RMA process.

But the ergonomics are equally important.


MFG Carsten