Do You Think The Development Curve Of Other Sims Like AMS2 Is Good For RF2?

[Tarmac Terrorist]

As a long term user of RF2 (since the begining really) and now a long term user of AMS2 and others like ACC etc, im wondering. Are people optomistic about the future of RF2? Also do you think the steep development curve of other sims (in particular AMS2) could actually be a good thing for RF2?

Over the last half of last year and the first half of this year I have noticed the development of RF2 start to accelerate, not just new content, but more frequent updates to older content and things like Global A.I. updates being mentioned in dev reports and updates. Also the recent take over by motorsport UK.

I used to spend all my time in this sim, now, not so much, but im looking to spend more time with it again as when its working right I still can have a fantastic time, also lets not forget it was this sim that was used for one of the most exciting and historic events (Virtual 24hrs Of Le Mans) back in 2020.

Do you think the competition from other sims with a fast dev curve may be possibly spuring on S397's development of RF2, maybe not, maybe you completely dissagree?

I made this video yesterday in which I go more into depth about why im asking this question, so feel free to watch if you've got the time.

Its just an idea, and more of a question for the community.

Cheers!

 

[Shovas]

It's almost inevitable for a for-profit software house. What you're seeing from Reiza and others who release frequently are a combination of delivery techiques like Continuous Delivery, Continuous Integration, and scrum agile software development practices (think releases every 2-4 weeks, even if only internally). Who knows if they're doing official scrum and/or other agile practices or only select parts but they're doing rapid delivery somehow.

Done right it can improve time to market and quality assurance by keeping things small and manageable instead of bulky and unwieldy. Huge wins from a business value point of view.

It's also meant to be sustainable. The idea isn't to go as fast as possible but to do an amount of work in a release that you can keep doing forever without burning out.

So, yeah, I'm really hopeful Motorsport Games will encourage this even more and they'll get people in who know how to run agile software development well.

When that happens we'll start seeing the rate of improvements we've been seeing from Reiza.

And I can't wait.

PS. Watching the video now

 

[Deleted member 197115]

CICD, Continuous Integration and Delivery, and no serious companies except may be social media nothing to lose FB doing it up to production.

 

[Durge Driven]

I find it unsettling people ask this question while at the same time drive rF2 into the ground with negativity which affects their bottom line which limits there ability to hire staff

Here is a idea, how about people that really like rF2 do heaps of positive threads and put the "other" threads to page 2

You then will really see how rF2 is trolled by naysayers that don't care and just do it because they can

If those people cared anything for the people want rF2 to survive they would not persist

Peace

 

[Gevatter]

Here is a idea, how about people that really like rF2 do heaps of positive threads and put the "other" threads to page 2

Go on then. You keep talking about it instead of doing it. Instead of complaining about people complaining, be the beacon of positivity you want others to be.

To the point: The development pace of rF2 the past 5 (?) years since S397 took over went on so incredibly slowly, that I think they a) don't have the money to develop rF2 faster and have to do side gigs to sustain rF2 development somehow, or b) don't really care that much about rF2 anymore and prioritize side gigs over it. In the time it took S397 to develop a buggy UI, Kunos developed ACC from nothing to the state it's in today with constant hotfixing, being used by the SRO in it's official eSports events.

Conclusion: I don't think S397 are influenced much by the development pace of other studios all of a sudden, but maybe Motorsports Games can finally give them the means they need to get on with rF2 development. Maybe they have other work lined up for the them like the rumored BTCC game.

 

[Durge Driven]

Done many threads on positives but they always get hijacked by the same trolls.
I hosted room for 3 years where I had 300+ people drove F3 and 99% were positive and I helped rookies all day lapping slow with them

I started the F3 community skin pack which many people had never attempted online which I helped 24/7 in F3 Rookies room

So don't tell me I have not done my share, what is your contribution ?

 

[Shovas]

I think this thread is actually a positive thread in that it's opening up a discussion on development practices that are succeeding elsewhere and could help rF2 succeed like we all want it to.

Same with my thread about AMS2 vs rF2, it was more about the positive improvements of AMS2 that allowed it to become a better sim overall if not exactly beating it by every metric.

That Monza release really bothers me, if I'm honest. I used to want to buy the DLC just to support S397 but now I feel kind of taken advantage of. Other long-term supporters have posted the same thing. There was a certain point where S397 seemed to be hitting their stride, and I was happy to buy dlc to support them, but it seems they got slowed back down my MG or Le Mans 2020 Virtual or something. I think at this point I'm waiting for MG to shift them into a higher gear and to make the changes we're all looking for before I really commit to rF2 again.

 

[Amanda]

I used to want to buy the DLC just to support S397 but now I feel kind of taken advantage of

Same here. rF2 seemed to be going on a very bright path once S397 took over, and I actually bought a few of their DLC (like the first GT3 and GTE packs they launched, the Nurburgring pack), but I honestly feel rF2 stopped in time in terms of the actual sim development and instead is focusing only on releasing expensive content. The AI still seems just as bad as it was when I left sim racing in 2018, the GT3/E cars look dated, I still have to go into the Logitech profiler to manually set the rotation degrees everytime I change cars, the game still looks DX9, loading the newer tracks can take more than 10 minutes and rf2 RAM usage is like 14 GB, and we still can't even change the display page on the car (having to rely on the HUD) - this feature existed in GTR2 from 2006, mind you.
Oh, did I mention the Workshop content that essentially doubles the amount of space this game occupies? If you subscribe to a 3 GB item on the workshop, you'll unescapably have to spare 6 GB on your drive, 3 GB for a Workshop file that won't ever be used again after installing, and 3 GB for the actual rFactor 2 folder.

I feel like rFactor 2 is still stopped in time. They made progress content wise, but the overall experience is just as frustrating as ever.

After I tried AMS2, I'll probably almost never play rFactor 2 again. I already uninstalled R3E/AMS1 and will probably uninstall rF2 as well.

 

[Gevatter]

So don't tell me I have not done my share, what is your contribution ?

Basically nothing, but I never raced online and don't actually care that much about rF2 anymore, because it keeps disapointing me. Well I bought most DLC up to Spa to help keep S397 afloat financially. rF2 rested on its laurels too long while the standards rose and all the yes-men in the forums didn't help. Now there's not much left that it does better than any other sim. I'm also not the one moaning about needing more positive threads about rF2. I happen to agree with most criticisms that don't go into hyperbole.

You know, as long as people complain, they usually want to see something improve which means they still care.

 

[dajdosta]

CICD, Continuous Integration and Delivery, and no serious companies except may be social media nothing to lose FB doing it up to production.

English is not my native language and that could be the reason I don't understand what you wrote.
Are you saying serious companies are not doing CICD?

 

[GTR233]

When the creator abandons his baby then it means a lot for me : if ISI has given up then I don't think that rf2 future is bright.
@Renato Simioni is a genius so what Reiza did for simracing is the exception IMHO. Why do you think improving other sims will make rf2 better ? As long as game engines are totally different I don't see the point. Improving AMS2 will not benefit to rf2...but can benefit to improve Madness Engine in the future and vice versa. Unless Renato updates rf2 himself, rf2 will not become AMS2
rf2 had the highest potential...but it was so many years ago that I really think it is a dead platform now in 2021. You need to wait for rf3 to really see improvements. My 2 cents

 

[Tarmac Terrorist]

I find it unsettling people ask this question while at the same time drive rF2 into the ground with negativity which affects their bottom line which limits there ability to hire staff

Here is a idea, how about people that really like rF2 do heaps of positive threads and put the "other" threads to page 2

You then will really see how rF2 is trolled by naysayers that don't care and just do it because they can

If those people cared anything for the people want rF2 to survive they would not persist

Peace

Er, sorry what?? You refering to me there? Are you stating that I am driving RF2 into the ground with negativity, eh? What? WTF did you get that idea?????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[PedroF69]

I find it unsettling people ask this question while at the same time drive rF2 into the ground with negativity which affects their bottom line which limits there ability to hire staff

Here is a idea, how about people that really like rF2 do heaps of positive threads and put the "other" threads to page 2

You then will really see how rF2 is trolled by naysayers that don't care and just do it because they can

If those people cared anything for the people want rF2 to survive they would not persist

Peace

I´m a rfactor user since ISI made SportCarsGT. But i´m not a blind fan like you. Is guys like you that "kiss" S397 developers,( in my view the most incompetent developers in the game community) that make them fill that are doing a good job.

 

[Doug62]

I´m a rfactor user since ISI made SportCarsGT. But i´m not a blind fan like you. Is guys like you that "kiss" S397 developers,( in my view the most incompetent developers in the game community) that make them fill that are doing a good job.

I like Durge Driven have been banned from the Studio Stupid web site.
I was banned for as it was put "using inappropriate language". This was a few years ago now but as a forum user for 20+ years you do know not to "using inappropriate language" on any off them so I see it as their way to silence criticism regardless off how it's presented.

This has been and still is a way they've used to keep the KISS culture and remove those that don't. ISI was no different from the beginning off rF2 were they found reason regardless off how worthless their excuse was to silence people who oddly enough actually knew what they where talking about. Modders, Track builder, talented content creators to the point were most stopped working on third party content for rF2 and moved over to AC and/or other titles. This wasn't helped by people saying third party stuff was no good. Any third party work rely on the base code. As it was changing all the time and the lack off information and support from the developer didn't help in this regard. The reality off this way off working it also broke ISI own mods all the time but the KISS culture tended to ignore that faked. Plus bad converted mod from rFactor and other titles didn't help.

But at the end off the day Studio stupid as ISI don't want to know! they just ban you for trying!