Fanatec CSL dd or simplicity setup
- Thread starter ripmaster
- Start date
They are vastly different products, to be honest.
The CSL DD + 8nm is a really nice plug and play DD with a a decent ecosystem of rims/wheels that have a very good price/performance ratio. It's limited by the fact that it works best within the fanatec environment (meaning there are othe extra steps to make non-fanatec wheels work).
The simplicity is a relatively bare-bones but cost effective OSW solution that will be stronger overall in terms of force feedback and the bandwidth on offer at the cost of being more in the hands of the user to configure and set it up for each sim you choose. The units from them aren't unpopular so finding settings that will work for you shouldn't be too difficult.
If you plan on only playing one or two PC sims and are comfortable with spending a little more and configuring things yourself, the simplicity is probably the best choice. If you jump around from sims go games and all over the place and want something a little more plug and play, with an overall less expensive environment, go with fanatec.
Personally, if the offerings above the simplicity are out of budget I would go with a CSL DD 8nm and then upgrade later to the VRS or a Simucube.
I will say though, that the 8nm CSL is a really nifty bit of kit for the price, even factoring in the price of the better PSU.
The CSL DD + 8nm is a really nice plug and play DD with a a decent ecosystem of rims/wheels that have a very good price/performance ratio. It's limited by the fact that it works best within the fanatec environment (meaning there are othe extra steps to make non-fanatec wheels work).
The simplicity is a relatively bare-bones but cost effective OSW solution that will be stronger overall in terms of force feedback and the bandwidth on offer at the cost of being more in the hands of the user to configure and set it up for each sim you choose. The units from them aren't unpopular so finding settings that will work for you shouldn't be too difficult.
If you plan on only playing one or two PC sims and are comfortable with spending a little more and configuring things yourself, the simplicity is probably the best choice. If you jump around from sims go games and all over the place and want something a little more plug and play, with an overall less expensive environment, go with fanatec.
Personally, if the offerings above the simplicity are out of budget I would go with a CSL DD 8nm and then upgrade later to the VRS or a Simucube.
I will say though, that the 8nm CSL is a really nifty bit of kit for the price, even factoring in the price of the better PSU.
If Fanatec has a rim or rims with which you expect to be satisfied,
then even if/when you eventually decide that 8 N.m does not suffice,
you may be able to sell that wheelbase and source Fanatec's DD1/2 without paying much of a penalty.
On the other hand, for e.g. clutch paddles and more than 2 thumbwheels on a 30 cm or wider rim,
adapting non-Fanatec rims to Fanatec wheelbases is more hassle than the reverse.
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TedBrosby-
Premium
Where are you located?
One thing to keep in mind, I've had people comment on my YouTube videos that they ordered a Sim-Plicity wheel and had difficulty getting a hold of the maker. It's apparently a one-person shop so getting returns or repairs is going to be difficult/challenging.
My thoughts:
Shipping an SW20 to the US is $95 alone. So you're looking at $642 shipped to the US for an SW15 Esports version from Sim-Plicity. You can DIY build an 8NM power supply and I imagine there will be some popping up on Etsy for $35-60 soon. Fanatec has a distributor in the US so if you're US based, you're looking at $15-20 for shipping at most for a CSL DD. That's almost half the price for 8Nm.
I think you should keep your CSL DD and you'll know if it's under powered or not. Plus given how long the wait times are, you can easily sell it for what you paid.
Cote Dazur
SIM Addict
What wheel do you currently have?
Not sure why you would think that an 8nm CSL DD is not going to be plenty strong enough.
I have a CSL DD and I do not run any of my SIM at full FFB strength, it is just not natural, past the first wow moments, I quickly lowered everything down to get a comfortable feeling and enjoy my driving. Main advantage of DD is detail coming from speed and smoothness. 20 nm and a safety button! Really?
Depends on the cars you drive, if you only drive GT3 perhaps it will be fine, maybe but depends on the sim. I ran the CSW 2.5 for a few years and found it very underpowered and its close to the same power as the CSL DD. If you run cars with no power steering like Indycar on iRacing the CSL DD has no where near enough power to run it at anywhere near realistic forces. I end up clipping 3-5% of telemetry on my SC2 Pro when running the car at or near realistic forces. This isnt running obnoxious amount of wheel weight either, its a very realistic manageable settings. The problem with underpowered motors is you will lose out on a ton of detials when hitting bumps or curbs in the road unless you make the steering on the car extremely light to begin with on sims like iRacing that actualy model real world steering column forces . Personally unless I was on a budget I would never purchase a motor with less than 20nm.
Cote Dazur
SIM Addict
This thread would not be complete without the quote about the "need" for a 20 nm DD to drive a Indycar at "realistic" forces. Thank you for filling up the gap.
Also I am glad that you and anybody else are enjoying those "realistic" forces. Nothing wrong with it, to each its own.
This is why one purchases a DD to be more realistic, not to make compromises. If you can afford it buy a more powerful base for sure, @ $62 a nm the CSL DD is the worst value out of all the major DD's.This thread would not be complete without the quote about the "need" for a 20 nm DD to drive a Indycar at "realistic" forces. Thank you for filling up the gap.
Also I am glad that you and anybody else are enjoying those "realistic" forces. Nothing wrong with it, to each its o
Butthurt_Saddle_sore
Premium
Dollars per Newton meter math. Oh boy, let me grab my abacus...
Finally got time to divide the prices of the wheel bases by their respective Newton meters, and something interesting popped out.
First the worst precieved deal on Fanatec's site...
CSL DD with the Boost kit 180. $479.95÷8Nm = $59.99/Nm.
Now the darling deal on Fanatec's site...
CSL DD. $349.95÷5Nm = $69.99/NM. Interesting. Its $10 higher per NM.
Let's go up market...
Podium DD2. $1499.95÷25Nm = $59.99/Nm... What?!?... That can't be right.
What about the...
Podium DD1. $1199.95÷20Nm = $59.99/NM.
I could continue on about the PS compatible wheel bases minus a reasonably priced steering wheel thats similar to whats packed in the box, but all we'll find out is how the PS compatibility skewed the almighty $/NM equation. But that is besides the point.
Playing the dollar to nm game, highlights that the CSL-DD with the BK180 packed in; is in line with Fanatec's other products, while the 5nm kit is marked up.
Sounds good, no?
On top of that, there's more to a wheelbase than its Nm numbers. Would you take a wheel with poor software support, a stepper motor and limited accessories just because has a better Nm/$ than the GT DD Pro 8Nm kit? Newton Meters is only part of the story, not the sole performance number.
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I bought a SC2 Pro, had it cranked up to realistic forces for cars with no power steering and promptly turned it back down. I'm not a small/weak guy either.
I also just received a CSL DD and it's really quite nice and I think people are going to be thrilled with it. It's a definitely upgrade from the CSW 2.5 and absolutely destroys the Thrustmaster G GT 2. It's also smoother than my friend's DD2.
" ... have ... on order ... was wondering whether to cancel and order ... " instead
Peak customer lets say incomprehension, why you wonder AFTER your order? This is why we cant have nice things, is this fashion to you?
Peak customer lets say incomprehension, why you wonder AFTER your order? This is why we cant have nice things, is this fashion to you?
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I have both a DD1 and a simplicity SW10.
My advice, go for the Simplicity 15 or 20 nm. It's easier to set up (basically the less you use filters the better it is).
By the way as soon as you will have bought one you will have a full support from Ollie.
Skype session for installation and if your base is broken they will send you another one immediatly.
I'm in the process to replace my SW10 for the 20NM and sell my DD1 probably after.
My advice, go for the Simplicity 15 or 20 nm. It's easier to set up (basically the less you use filters the better it is).
By the way as soon as you will have bought one you will have a full support from Ollie.
Skype session for installation and if your base is broken they will send you another one immediatly.
I'm in the process to replace my SW10 for the 20NM and sell my DD1 probably after.
Cote Dazur
SIM Addict
What are you expecting from the 20nm that the SW10 does not provide you?
In my experience the Fanatec bases are relatively easy to get up and running across multiple sims. Exponentially so compared to OSW systems. Even compared to my SC2 Pro with it's robust and phenomenal software is more difficult to get dialed in across sims than the DD2 I had experience with and my current CSL DD.
One thing Fanatec does really well is having their bases work consistently across a multitude of titles. When comparing the SC2 to the Podium offerings, one of the very few instances I would recommend the Fanatec over the Simucube is if you play a lot of sims and enjoy playing simcade titles. It definitely possible to get the SC2 into a spot where it doesn't feel bad in those titles, it just doesn't feel as consistent across them. It's really hard to describe, but people like Will from boosted media and a handful of other people who have tried both have expressed similar sentiments.
But if you're a dad who just retires to the sim cave once or twice a week to hammer out a few races in iracing and iracing only with the occasional ACC, then yeah the simplicity is probably a good call.
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I have all major sims and i came to the conclusion that using filters on the DD is a bad idea whatever DD you are using.
So i always count on the game's ffb and just use what i need useful for the DD. With the SW10 i use only the Mode filter.
The weight is disengaged, the center wheel filter and details are disengaged the other parameters are not filters but parameters like rotation, speed...
I use the max torque than i set up the ffb strength in game in order to avoid clipping.
So it's not difficult to set up a DD for me.
So i always count on the game's ffb and just use what i need useful for the DD. With the SW10 i use only the Mode filter.
The weight is disengaged, the center wheel filter and details are disengaged the other parameters are not filters but parameters like rotation, speed...
I use the max torque than i set up the ffb strength in game in order to avoid clipping.
So it's not difficult to set up a DD for me.
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Cote Dazur
SIM Addict
I hear you, you like massive torque, but at the end of the day is 20 nm not more about range than strength of torque?
FFB will send 1 to 100, until it clips.
Being able to set gain at much lower, will give you full range of what the sim can communicate and 20nm, if set correctly, will be able to communicate the signal with better accuracy and dynamic, but does not mean that it will that much stronger (violent), except in extreme cases like accidents.
In a very low strength wheel base, you have to choose between feeling the high forces or the lower forces, stronger wheel will have sufficient dynamic range to communicate the lowest at a reasonable level and also the maximum that the SIM can communicate.
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If you are looking for a small package, then the csl dd is the way to go. Simplicity wheels do have the electronics and PSU in an extra box, which is bigger than just the PSU on the csl. Overall, it will need more space than the csl.
