Foldable aluminium rig suggestions?

[R Soul]

Hi all.

I currently use a desk with a G27 clamped on to it. It's important to me that it's not fixed so I can use the PC for other things. For those that don't know, "other things" is a general term for tasks that do not involve sim racing

I sometimes toy with the idea of getting a new wheel, possibly even direct drive, and I know that a simple desk won't cut it. Aluminium profile seems like a good sturdy mounting solution but most of the things I see out there are fixed.

Here's my current arrangement with the wheel/pedals not in use:

Note the keyboard tray clamped on to the desk.

Here's the most common use with the wheel:

• I don't have the skill to use the gear lever/clutch properly so the former is just clamped on to allow me to use the buttons for a few things.
• The pedals are screwed to a piece of my old desk which has a hole cut out to stop them/the chair sliding away from each other.
• There's enough room to slide the keyboard tray out, which is nice but not essential.

If I do decide the try the gear lever, another part of my old desk can be clamped under the wheel with a tab sticking out on which to clamp the lever:

That board was rectangular but I cut out a piece to make it an L shape, which allows the gear lever to be closer. The wooden blocks are glued on and act as spacers to lower the board.

Gear lever attached:


Generally the setup works but it's a bit cumbersome to arrange. The hole in the pedal board was initially cut to allow the chair casters to fit perfectly in the middle (when I was always using the clutch). I later made a rather crude alteration when I went back to just using the throttle and brake and the casters were replaced with stands.

Given what you've seen above, can anyone suggest a design for an aluminium profile rig that would fit around that desk and be sturdy (with DD or may just a belt driven wheel) yet foldable so I can put it away? The space on the left of my chair is fine to use.

This shows an example of hinges for swivel arms:

https://www.boldman.co.uk/paletti-catalogs/Catalogue-section-L.pdf

Would they be sturdy enough to use or might there be too much flex?

Also, I'd be willing to replace the desk completely it that gets in the way of a good solution.

Here's a rather crude diagram of how the wheel might fold away (rests on the desk but held in place at the front with aluminium profile and can rotate forwards/downwards for storage)

 

[Ruttman98]

Here in the US, I gave used 80/20 adjustable motion pivots which tighten up quite solidly using a hex key.

Here's s link to one 40mm metric example in black (silver is also available):

40-4353-Black

40 Series 0 Degree Standard Structural Pivot Assembly with Dual "L" Arms

8020.net

There are several different widths and pivot arm cofigurations from which to choose:

40-4395-Black

40 Series Universal Standard Structural Pivot Assembly with Dual Straight Arms

8020.net

40-4398-Black

40 Series 90 Degree Standard Structural Pivot Assembly with Dual Straight Arms

8020.net

15-series fractional (note: not metric but I have found some interchangeabilty btw. 1.5-in.and 40mm profiles using my standard 15-series hardware and bracketd and with parts of my SimLab monitor stand):

4358

15 Series 90 Degree Standard Structural Pivot Assembly with Straight and

8020.net

I believe Bosch, Motedis, or another European manufacturer should have similar articulated options.

 

[Chrhun]

You could also just build a rig behind the table like I've done?

 

[Daniel R.]

Or use the Playseat Challenge. It's comfortable for normal height people.

I tried it some years ago. It's foldable and works really well. You could keep wheels and pedals on it, fold it together, and put it somewhere else.

 

[5-Card-Major]

Or use the Playseat Challenge. It's comfortable for normal height people.

I tried it some years ago. It's foldable and works really well. You could keep wheels and pedals on it, fold it together, and put it somewhere else.

For a while I was thinking of that same rig. Problem is I would have to find a place to store it close to that room. I would have to clean out (OMG) the floor of my 1/2 of the BR closet & keep it there...

 

[R Soul]

Thanks for the advice so far. I'm beginning to think the hinged approach isn't the right one, at least not for the wheel. I think for now it's best to start with something closer to a fixed/conventional design, which shows what I'd like when driving, and then try to work out the storage solutions.

I've made a model of my desk & keyboard tray in Blender to help with coming up with designs:

I made the wheel motor and screw holes using the dimensions I found here:

Simucube 2 PRO (R2)

Shipping on 6th of September 2021 High-end Simucube 2 Pro force feedback wheel base will make you forget you are in simulation, it will be the golden standard for years among e-sport pros and gear heads who demand the the best price / performance ratio. With it's 25 Nm rated torque it is more...

racewerk.com

The below shows a possible design, using this this type of bracket to secure the wheel to two aluminium beams (2 40x40 or maybe 1 40x120 depending on what's best (weight & cost vs required strength):


I'm not sure if that would be structurally sound. I've designed in some clearance; the desk height hasn't been measured precisely (it's on a carpet so it's sunk down a little, and the rig itself would sink into the chair mat/carpet too, and I'd need to be able to adjust the angle.

You'll notice by having the wheel hanging over the desk I might not have to move my monitor from its usual position.

 

[Emery]

You know, using those brackets, you might be able to bolt it to a 3-4mm thick sheet of aluminum which you then use quik-clamps to affix to the desk. Just need something to sandwich in-between the aluminum and the desk to avoid having bolt heads damage the desktop. The idea is then you can quickly remove the wheel for when you want to use the desk without figuring out how to move a whole frame. Drawback is you probably can't use the full strength of the wheel.

If you're going to create an 80-20 frame, you might as well add a pedal deck. Look to the sim-labs site to see what parts you'd need to make it sturdy.

 

[R Soul]

Thanks for the advice. There's no way I'd have the strength or stamina to use a direct drive wheel anywhere near full strength. If I had such a thing I'd probably turn it down very very low.

Regarding pedals, that seemed to be one of the easier things to deal with so I didn't bother to make a design for them.

I just found this thread which deals with a compact rig: https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/new-80-20-rig-design.164984/

What I like to know is that the sliding pedal unit is completely solid when the locks are engaged.

It also occurs to me that I might not need a full seat base. I could drop my chair over the back of the frame like this:

I'd have to use a 40mm height profile to allow the chair to remain flat, so I'd need extra reinforcements. There's also the possibility that the chair would swivel due to the increase forces from the controls, but it might be possible to install some sort of temporary locking mechanism between the main body of the chair and the frame.

 

[Emery]

What I like to know is that the sliding pedal unit is completely solid when the locks are engaged.

"Pedal box is absolutely solid in terms of rigidty. Locks perfectly with the two clamps."

New 80/20 rig design

Been using a GT Omega rig for the last few years which I've had to modify in order to cope with the stresses of OSW and load-cell pedals. Despite (or possibly because of) this it's still rather creaky so I've decided to build myself a new 80/20 rig. Motion's out due to the fact that I'm limited...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[maelstrom]

It also occurs to me that I might not need a full seat base. I could drop my chair over the back of the frame like this

If you're going to do that, why not consider a folding wheelstand like the GT Omega Apex - very strong, highly adjustable and easy to tuck away:

There are even reviews of it online using a TM DD1 wheelbase at max settings in the driver and game!

 

[R Soul]

"Pedal box is absolutely solid in terms of rigidty. Locks perfectly with the two clamps."

New 80/20 rig design

Been using a GT Omega rig for the last few years which I've had to modify in order to cope with the stresses of OSW and load-cell pedals. Despite (or possibly because of) this it's still rather creaky so I've decided to build myself a new 80/20 rig. Motion's out due to the fact that I'm limited...

www.racedepartment.com

Er, thanks for digging out the comment but that's what I was referring to when I said "I like to know it's solid" which is not be confused with "I'd like to know if it's solid".

If you're going to do that, why not consider a folding wheelstand like the GT Omega Apex - very strong, highly adjustable and easy to tuck away:
There are even reviews of it online using a TM DD1 wheelbase at max settings in the driver and game!

It may be fine for gear or belt wheels, but I've seen the footage you mentioned (with a DD wheel) and some flexing is mentioned (at normal strength settings). There's also the matter of the position of the wheel. It looks like the stand would hold the wheel too far from my monitor, so it's one more thing I'd have to adjust before racing.

On the other hand, I've seen plenty of footage of aluminium profile rigs showing them to be solid, with plenty of comments to back it up.

Plus, I seem to have my heart set on that material and a custom design. I've just set up an animation in Blender showing how the folding design my work:

The motor on it's own weights 11KG, and when adding the pedals the stowed position might be a little o n the top-heavy side.

 

[maelstrom]

On the other hand, I've seen plenty of footage of aluminium profile rigs showing them to be solid, with plenty of comments to back it up.

Plus, I seem to have my heart set on that material and a custom design.

You'd probably (but not definitely) build a more solid rig with that material. However, it depends on how foldable and compact you want the final result to be. You would also still probably have your wheel at a similar distance from your monitor with the Apex wheel stand as, because of the sloping design, most of it would still be under your desk. A potential problem with your design is that, without the seat actually mounted on it to weigh it down and stabilise it, you'd still have the potential for a DD wheel to move it around at high torque settings. How/where will you mount the pedals on your design?

 

[R Soul]

Are you saying I'm so heavy that my unoptimized body is the only thing that can stop an industrial servo motor??

If you are, you make a good point.

For the pedal design I was thinking of something simple, like the 4th image on this page:

My New Sim Racing Rig

Recently I saw a Craigslist ad from a guy selling some 15 Series 80/20 aluminum extrusion for a great price. This coincided with me receiving both Clubsport V2 Pedals and a T300RS as gifts, so I knew it was...

thelateapex.com

If I want the wheel to be close to the monitor (as in the current design), it has to be quite high up to clear the desk. That means the pedals will also have to be a bit on the high side, so the front edge of the pedals may be raised up a bit.

 

[R Soul]

Apologies for the double post but this is some time later and with a change of subject:

After looking putting together a rig in Frame Designer I wasn't happy with the support of the wheel; just didn't look right, so I'm considering using a standard front mounting bracket as seen in this example: https://simblacks.co.nz/product/chassis-sbb-v2-black-anodized-copy/
(I know there are others but they have a similar shape).

Mounted like that, the wheel would have to be further from the monitor than I'd like, so, if I mounted it backwards and tilted it back, should there be a decent amount of space at the sides for my hands?

Example screenshot (dimensions are way out because I don't know what they should be):


Could there be stability problems with the motor on the other side to the support bolts? If it's really not a good idea to mount it that way I am willing to compromise, mount it normally, and bring my monitor forwards.

 

[Emery]

As long as you have 20" (50 cm) between those flanges, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

 

[R Soul]

Thanks. It haven't been able to find a set of dimensions for that bracket but the horizontal one here has a width of 60, so I assume that's a standard that other systems will adhere to.

I've had more second thoughts about the hinge (third, fourth thoughts etc). Instead of the wheel support being hinged, it could be secured to the base with the seat mount and pedal boxes both sliding. Like a combination of the basic idea behind this compact sim rig* but made with much more sturdy sliders as in Brun's idea (mentioned in post #8).

*The compact sim rig can be seen to flex in this video just from the driver getting in and out.

 

[Emery]

but made with much more sturdy sliders as in Brun's idea (mentioned in post #8).

Yes, sturdy is better. When he grabs the steering wheel to get out near the end of the video, it's obvious it's not sturdy. Triangulation and/or thicker beams needed.

 

[Neilski]

Tbh, it looks more like it's simply moving (not bolted up tightly enough?) than flexing. However, it's hard to be certain because the camera only cuts to him when he's perhaps already leaning a bit on the wheel...

 

[R Soul]

Yesterday I received a cable from Leo Bodnar to connect my G27 pedals to the PC directly. Small steps eh?

 

[G_B]

Hello,

I have the Wheel Stand Pro V2 : https://www.wheelstandpro.com/

You can adapt it to Logitech or Thrustmaster Model and also with the shifter (Logitech or Thrustmaster). The customer service is really fast and professional.

Also, you can adapt the size, the angle, the position of the pedals.

Nothing to see., you have a Fractal Define tower, nice , i like this product. Alternatively, if you have tools, you can cut out the central part of your desk and make it foldable. That way you gain depth while keeping the keyboard. And with a Wheel Stand Pro you're safe.