gtr2-race 07 AI : face to face on facebook

[cangrejin]

I have some questions
but please don't take them out of context

POINT 1
many years ago .....
Many people complained that in race 07 (and all their dlcs) gt cars are "easy" (no offense) to control, (and that they adapted tire handling and racing to the time and style of touring cars.) it has lights (according to lei), (google it, "" RD race vs GTR2 "... or etc".
Why have gt cars, if you can't race at night?

ok, all this I mean ... it's unfair: race 07 is tailor-made for WTCC cars and races (and everything that is touring car)
EVERYTHING: the fight body body with the ai, the duration of races, the tires, the physics fwd etc.
.... the rest (gt, protos, formulas) was incorporated and adapted (more less) to that style. they did not keep separate: the AI, the tires, or the duration of the race..etc

That is why I do not take into account the GT-protos-formulas in race 07 (and all their dlcs) .... I just ask and I am interested in touring cars in race 07.

all of this above, no mods

POINT 2
that race 07 is mainly touring does not mean that it is bad at GT cars. The same for gtr2 is not bad with the touring (in fact I provided the mod "Super Touring World" and it is SO excellent recreating the touring btcc of the 90 ... melee fights everywhere, ((contains its own AI -AI specifies)
(from rfactor I can say that it is mainly for f1, but again, you can try other things and there is no problem)
f1c is SO focused on f1 style, that I use it just for that.

Obviously the mods. these can totally change the games (gtr2, rfactor, f1c, race07) and have DTM in f1c, touring car in GTR2, GTs in RACE07, and the flying delorean in rfactor (true) ...

and it is HERE that I have the first big problem, and the FIRST question:
there are so many mods, in so many games ... that it is difficult to determine where it is "harnessed-squeezed-it becomes very close to reality" a mod

1 question which ia (or ai) is better in each case? (all this only GAME BASE)
for touring car which one? for gt which one? (race, gtr2, rfactor)
with mods of which one is closer at each point
example .... there is a btcc 1990s mod for race07 that is very "specialized" (ia, performance) for tourings. Does it compare to the STW of GTR2?

of course, the "gtr2 ai enhancement" mod makes gtr2 and its gt cars more realistic, but if a touring mod doesn't have its own ai ... it will use gt car ai ... (and we already know that those gt they don't fight all the time) ... in that case GTR2 HAS the best AI for gt cars (better with the AI mod)

2-How is the AI of race07 (the AI of tourings) compared to the AI of GTR2?
(I wonder why there are mods that only use the game's AI ... and not their own adapted AI ((as in f1c)))


A thousand apologies for all this ... I want to start again paying if necessary ... that's why I make sure I know what I buy.

 

[Kenny Paton]

On the AI:
I haven't used vanilla GTR2 for years, but as you've already pointed out with the anniversary patch from GTR233 it's very good, whichever choice you make.
Having said that I do think that Race 07's AI was out of the box better and with touring cars is still ahead of GTR2.
IMO the best touring car AI is to be found in RaceRoom, they are happy to rub paint with you and the biggest difference is they don't fall away once you pass them.
If you do get Race07 then I recommend getting AndreasFSC's touring cars reloaded mod which covers the late 90's BTCC as in the original Toca games.

 

[Deleted member 13397]

an answer with an different aproach
1. buy both, they both are cheap now
2. i dont know how real racing cars feel like, never driven one,
but in SIMRACING
until you dont have a sophisticated motion rig
the main immersion comes from visual and FFB
ok, visual there a very comparable (with vanilia R07 in front)
FFB is up to you, if you have a dull FFB, its sh.....
if you finetune how you want to be CHEATED by the wheel
it becomes very enjoyable

for example i cant drive PC2 GT3 because they feel different then SIMBINs and kunos ones

3. AI, yes i think the vanilia R07 is better, more close, driving, BrandsHatch curves three cars wide
dont happen in GTR2
but still next corner you get a bump into the back of your car
so RACEROOM is better (sometimes)

 

[AndreasFSC]

I think the physics and ai in GTR2 and Race 07 are almost identical.
The difference is not in the games but how the cars are made.
The only difference between the games that I have discovered is that GTR2 ai has more rear tyre grip.
So when I did some experiments converting one of my Race 07 mods I had to decrease rear tyre ai grip bias.
There are almost endless possibilities to change how cars and ai should be in both games.

 

[Jempy]

The biggest difference between GTR2 and Race07, as I drove both for some years, can be summarized in a few words I feel:
GTR2 is typically an "Endurance" game while Race07 is typically a "Sprint races" game mostly.

Should I have to choose nowadays between Race07 or Raceroom ... I'd go for the second, but just regretting the lack of rain.... RRE's AI is very good.

 

[cangrejin]

Thank you very much for your answers...
as I said ... I don't care about the ffbb, or the graphics (in another thread I talk about f1c), or things like that.

and as many say about whether the same GT car feels different in race 07 (than in gtr2) ... it is of course that race is tailor-made for WTCC .... ALL FWD ... you can't compare a GT car in race07.
here just ask for the AI. Yes, the race AI is more focused on the wtcc (than on a 24 hour endurace, where the cars move away from each other). (It does not mean that one or the other is wrong, they are just different APPROACHES) ... the problem is using gt's in RACE07 ... and touring car in GTR2 ... obviously depending on the quality of the mod (and the AI customized and adjusted for the same mod) open a larger or smaller zooming in on the "wheel to wheel" (speaking of touring car)

I saw very closely the mentioned mod ("AndreasFSC"), taking into account that the BASE game is the AI, the duration of races, the choice of tires, focused on the TOURING CAR, and the mod is pure tc, and fwd and the I adjusted to that "style" .... I guess there is no mod and game CLOSER to that style and driving (wheel to wheel)

... without detracting from the excellent marvelous spectacular "Super Touring Evolution" for gtr2 ... (10/10).

but the base, is the base. and closer than in any other game.
(Here the example is ACC, (not AC) is very close to the GT, but of course my pc would explode, I have neither money nor the minimum requirements to make it work)

only the problem of having a game for each thing appears.
(gt's mods for GTR2, tourings mods for RACE, F1 for rfactor) and that's a problem if I have to checkout. Nor is it that now I have money to be capricious, it barely reaches me ... and that is precisely why I asked for your opinion ... to make good decisions.

raceroom: nope. I prefer to have the installer on my hard drive, and make it mod friendly, for pc potato KING.

Thank you so much.
(if you want, keep talking, i exit)

 

[The Iron Wolf]

My 2cents: except for the graphics you can shape GTR2 into Race07, but you can't shape Race07 into GTR2. But it all boils down to what you want to enjoy, it doesn't have to be one or another

Should I have to choose nowadays between Race07 or Raceroom ... I'd go for the second, but just regretting the lack of rain.... RRE's AI is very good.

Imagine if RRRE did not lose all the GTR2 features it lost via multiple iterations - safety car phase, dynamic weather, realistic pit stop, 24hr cycle. Combined with their stellar content and polish, it could've been the ultimate sim today.... oh well!

 

[AndreasFSC]

Yes, I would say Race 07 is GTR2, with improved graphics and some fixes to little annoying but not crucial things, but also the endurance "things" removed sadly.
When it comes to ai and physics it is just how the cars and drivers are tweaked.

 

[cangrejin]

important points (that make "the difference"):

A- RACE 07 has dynamic weather? (something missing in gtr2, without touching anything)
Does the sun rise or does it rain during the same session?
Does the day advance? (the sun rises and falls?)

B-have you solved the use of rain tires? (gtr2 had a problem) (I think AI lasted longer)

C-of course, you don't have a night? (neither track lamps, nor can you turn on your car lights) please confirm this.

D-does the temperature change in the same session? (in gtr2 the track -the asphalt- rises in temperature)
fixed the "dynamic temperature"? (ahaha) I mean that in gtr2 when the day passes, the temperature increases ... but the temperature did not drop at night (at night you had the same track temperature as with sun above)

E) very important ... (I think they had already answered) the ai when passing it and leading ... keep pushing hard or not? (as in touring car wheel to wheel, the whole race)
(In gtr2 the AI if it is advanced, it falls very low, and if they overtake you ... you never reach them again. It is an error-bug ... although it is adapted to the GT ENDURANCE)

 

[AndreasFSC]

important points (that make "the difference"):

A- RACE 07 has dynamic weather? (something missing in gtr2, without touching anything)
Does the sun rise or does it rain during the same session?
Does the day advance? (the sun rises and falls?)

B-have you solved the use of rain tires? (gtr2 had a problem) (I think AI lasted longer)

C-of course, you don't have a night? (neither track lamps, nor can you turn on your car lights) please confirm this.

D-does the temperature change in the same session? (in gtr2 the track -the asphalt- rises in temperature)
fixed the "dynamic temperature"? (ahaha) I mean that in gtr2 when the day passes, the temperature increases ... but the temperature did not drop at night (at night you had the same track temperature as with sun above)

E) very important ... (I think they had already answered) the ai when passing it and leading ... keep pushing hard or not? (as in touring car wheel to wheel, the whole race)
(In gtr2 the AI if it is advanced, it falls very low, and if they overtake you ... you never reach them again. It is an error-bug ... although it is adapted to the GT ENDURANCE)

A: Weather can be set to "changeable" in Race07, so it can start to rain during sessions. The track can also be wet without it raining (at practice sessions at least). Sun position changes during the day, but it is more from one session to the next. But there is a "plugin" for the game to change time and also change time scaling, so I believe the sun position can change during races also, but the changes are probably too small to be noticed.

B: No problem I have heard of, it can be tweaked in WearRate and AiWear in the tyre files.

C: Time can be set to night and track lights can be used in Race07 too, but no car lights on track.
Cars have lights obviously, but they don't light up the track.

D: The temperature rises at least, but don't know about falling

E: No problem that I have noticed, ai fights back if ai aggression is set high enough i the talent files.

 

[GTR233]

I agree with Jempy : why Sector3 did not apply all the work they did for gtr2 (well none of the actual employee worked on gtr2 but they can use some of the key features) then Race series in RRE to make the best sim ?

 

[Kenny Paton]

I agree with Jempy : why Sector3 did not apply all the work they did for gtr2

You've got to remember that it was originally designed to be used in lan events at racetracks and financed by KW Suspensions, so their decisions weren't completely free.
I don't think we'll ever see another GTR2 as the business model has changed so much since then. ACC and AMS 2 might be the nearest we'll get.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

A- RACE 07 has dynamic weather? (something missing in gtr2, without touching anything)
Does the sun rise or does it rain during the same session?
Does the day advance? (the sun rises and falls?)

Gtr2 does also have dynamic weather and alone on this site there are several solution posted how to enable it in Race
The Iron Wolf's plugin fixes it without hex editing.

Mucho has made a tweak that enable you to set the time and advance it at any rate you want.
In reality Race 07 are even less likely to change the weather during a session than Gtr2.
But it does.

B-have you solved the use of rain tires? (gtr2 had a problem) (I think AI lasted longer)

Again The Iron Wolf has fix that issue in his plugin.
Drivers car didn't have tire wear before you pitted in the steam version while it works fine in the NoCD version of Gtr2.

D-does the temperature change in the same session? (in gtr2 the track -the asphalt- rises in temperature)
fixed the "dynamic temperature"? (ahaha) I mean that in gtr2 when the day passes, the temperature increases ... but the temperature did not drop at night (at night you had the same track temperature as with sun above)

While it is true that the track temperature tend to rise as you drive it it does fall too with ambient temperature special if it starts to rain a lot.
Yes night and lack of sun shine does not have any influence on track temperature.
Yu can make it happen with the weather.txt file but a huge job and you will get scripted weather.

For a long time it bugged be that there was no night in Race 07 but now I am fine with it .
Better focus on what a sim does well than what it doesn't do (well).

I would say that overall Gtr2 are somewhat more complete . It is still the most complete race sim out there 15 years later.

But Race 07 got slightly better graphics also find the sound to be better!
Also prefer the FFB in Race 07 to Gtr2 but not a huge difference.

The Ai has been discussed since forever and not sure one is better than the other it is more about the Ai values in .hdc, .trk and .plr files
Setting a correct feeler flag box and update rate. Limited the number of Ai cars to what your cpu can deal with helps a lot.
Also find that the closer you stay to 100% AI the better they behave.
I am getting old and slow so for the most at 96-97% which is ok.

As most are stating it should not be ether or.
Both are great sim's and have focused strength on different aspects of sim racing.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

I think it's rf2 that's closest to gtr2 of all the current sims. In fact, it is even more feature complete, the state of those features is where the problem is. Unfortunately, things that put rf2 in the lead in my book do not appear to be a priority to devs or are on the long hold). But yeah, as Kenny said business model has changed.

 

[Kenny Paton]

I think it's rf2 that's closest to gtr2 of all the current sims

I take it you're referring to the physics because for an awful amount of people (unlike GTR2) you couldn't describe it as plug and play.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

I take it you're referring to the physics because for an awful amount of people (unlike GTR2) you couldn't describe it as plug and play.

Maybe you could describe it as Plug and Wait
I do like rf2 but you really have to be committed to it to enjoy it.

On another note updated my NVIDIA driver this morning something I have not done that in a long time and find the Simbin titles looks better than ever?

 

[The Iron Wolf]

I take it you're referring to the physics because for an awful amount of people (unlike GTR2) you couldn't describe it as plug and play.

What I mean is feature set. This is the only game under development that has safety car phase (broken and ignored unfortunaltely) and is moddable (not clear if that's a priority either). I do not find rF2 any less user friendly compared to GTR2, unless you are referring to a nice organized content and Championships we get in GTR2, then yes - GTR2 is friendlier experience.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Drivers car didn't have tire wear before you pitted in the steam version while it works fine in the NoCD version of Gtr2.

If you are curious - I believe my plugin has fix for this as well (enableMissingTelemetryFix).

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

Yes I stated that.
Good work!

 

[Gregoryleo]

My 2cents: except for the graphics you can shape GTR2 into Race07, but you can't shape Race07 into GTR2. But it all boils down to what you want to enjoy, it doesn't have to be one or another


Imagine if RRRE did not lose all the GTR2 features it lost via multiple iterations - safety car phase, dynamic weather, realistic pit stop, 24hr cycle. Combined with their stellar content and polish, it could've been the ultimate sim today.... oh well!

RRRE is what happens when the publisher has total control over content. That and the fact that sector3 is a very small team with somewhat limited resources.