F1 2017 How did a F2002 mod from AC end up in F1 2017???

[Some_Guy_Here]

Codies didn't get the model from Turbosquid

Again in the email correspondence a Codies employee said that they got your model from TurboSquid.

 

[SalamanderSoldier]

I saw a screenshot of an e-mail correspondence between you and someone from Codies who said that they will pay you via some website they got the model from. Are you saying that this did not happen?

Not yet

 

[SalamanderSoldier]

Again in the email correspondence a Codies employee said that they got your model from TurboSquid.

No they did not get the model from Turbosquid check your facts

 

[Some_Guy_Here]

No they did not get the model from Turbosquid check your facts

I'm looking at your email correspondence as I type this.

The Codies employees writes: " your model was found available for free online and provided excellent reference for us at the time. As it was so useful, as gesture of good will I have arranged to purchase it through turbo squid where I have seen it for sale and you see that go through shortly."

Now, are you saying that the purchase has not yet been arranged? And is it true that you had that model for sale on TurboSquid?

 

[SalamanderSoldier]

I'm looking at your email correspondence as I type this.

The Codies employees writes: " your model was found available for free online and provided excellent reference for us at the time. As it was so useful, as gesture of good will I have arranged to purchase it through turbo squid where I have seen it for sale and you see that go through shortly."

Now, are you saying that the purchase has not yet been arranged? And is it true that you had that model for sale on TurboSquid?

He said he got it for free online. That would imply he got it from the mod which is free and not Turbosquid which costs money.

They did not pay any money to me as of the time of this writing.

 

[Some_Guy_Here]

He said he got it for free online. That would imply he got it from the mod which is free and not Turbosquid which costs money.

They did not pay any money to me as of the time of this writing.

He said he got it for free online to use a a reference. However, because it helped them so much he wanted to arrange to buy it on turbo squid where he also saw it for sale.

Is,or was, that model for sale on TurboSquid or not? And what was your asking price for the model.

 

[garyjpaterson]

lol

He said he got it for free online to use a a reference.

Got it for free despite there being a place to purchase it. Nice. For reference, yeah, that's what he's calling it. Not ripping the model, just for reference...

However, because it helped them so much..

Yeah, it helped a lot. So much in fact I doubt they had to model anything at all...

he wanted to arrange to buy it on turbo squid where he also saw it for sale.

Did he now? What a nice guy, wanting to arrange to buy it on turbosquid. On his own accord, I take it? Or after it became clear he'd stolen the model? What a lovely gesture, offering to pay for it after stealing it and being caught.

Is that how he goes about his grocery shopping too? Take the products and act like a really kind, generous person when he offers to pay for the goods after he's already eaten and reaped the benefits. Good guy Codies modeller.

 

[Some_Guy_Here]

lol



Got it for free despite there being a place to purchase it. Nice. For reference, yeah, that's what he's calling it. Not ripping the model, just for reference...


Yeah, it helped a lot. So much in fact I doubt they had to model anything at all...


Did he now? What a nice guy, wanting to arrange to buy it on turbosquid. On his own accord, I take it? Or after it became clear he'd stolen the model? What a lovely gesture, offering to pay for it after stealing it and being caught.

Is that how he goes about his grocery shopping too? Take the products and act like a really kind, generous person when he offers to pay for the goods after he's already eaten and reaped the benefits. Good guy Codies modeller.

Maybe he found the free mod before he found it on TurboSquid.

Also he doesn't have to pay salamander soldier a dime if he doesnt want to, as salamadersoldier doesn't have a leg to stand on from a legal point of view.

Again I ask: was the model on TurboSquid and how much did it cost?

 

[Some_Guy_Here]

I think I found the model on TurboSquid. It costs $159. That's right, $159. My mate owes me more than that.

 

[garyjpaterson]

I think I found the model on TurboSquid. It costs $159. That's right, $159. My mate owes me more than that.

Whats your point? What does the price of the model on Turbosquid matter? The Codies modeller did not access the model from there anyway, so its completely irrelevant.

The fact is, if Codemasters really did only use the model "as reference", as they claim, there would be zero issue being brought up at all, as @SalamanderSoldier would not have recognised his car in F2017.

It doesn't matter that they are offering a 'good will gesture' now; they stole content with no intention of paying for it. Thats not how it should work.

-----

Anyway, hows this for a laugh-

http://forums.codemasters.com/discu...-been-accepted-as-normal-for-over-8-years-now

Lol, weeks ago before this was even known to be a rip, people were already complaining that the details and accuracy of the models in F2017 were lacking... except, you guessed it, the one they stole from a modder.

 

[ltcars]

I think I found the model on TurboSquid. It costs $159. That's right, $159. My mate owes me more than that.

Maybe Codie is not @SalamanderSoldier 's mate and it is not as clear as with your mate if he will get the money back or not

 

[Stereo]

I think I found the model on TurboSquid. It costs $159. That's right, $159. My mate owes me more than that.

That's for a non-commercial license, normally it'd be at least 10x as much for a non-exclusive commercial license. It's like how 3ds max costs $200 for students but $2000 per year for professionals using it in their job.

 

[ltcars]

That's for a non-commercial license, normally it'd be at least 10x as much for a non-exclusive commercial use license.

Bullshit, my little brother owes me more than that

little irony

 

[David O'Reilly]

If codies want to get out of this elegantly rather than with egg on their face they should pay the creator of this car what they would have paid someone to do it for them from scratch. Regardless of whether it was done in house (wages costs) or by a freelancer (contract price) there would be a fair price for that work.
In other words a retrospective contract to create it.

The modder who built it may or may not have any official license to sell such a work (and nor would any person who sits at a computer for codies to build one) but neither do codies have the right to steal his labour. They own the right to commercially release these items, that's not the same as being legally allowed to steal them (or find them on the internet).

He did the work, they ripped it and have admitted it (which was a good thing).
Now they need to pay a fair price. If they get it for that everyone wins.

 

[Zinc]

If codies want to get out of this elegantly rather than with egg on their face they should pay the creator of this car what they would have paid someone to do it for them from scratch. Regardless of whether it was done in house (wages costs) or by a freelancer (contract price) there would be a fair price for that work.

Unfortunately, if they did that then it would be reasonable to ask for exclusivity, as would be standard for in-house or freelance work. Which would have it pulled from Turbosquid and more importantly, AC mod download. That would be very odd given the source of the model.

 

[Gergo Panker]

He did the work, they ripped it and have admitted it (which was a good thing).
Now they need to pay a fair price. If they get it for that everyone wins.

Even if that happens, it's not how things are done in any business in the world.
That's essentially saying that you steal a car from a dealership, the dealership finds out, you admit to it and say it's helluva car, you promise you'll pay for that other renting company a small sum for renting a similar car, adding that you're surely gonna watch out for the manufacturer's incredible car-building skills in the future. If you do that in this scenario, you go to jail.

Also, it's the artist's work that's interesting here, any Ferrari or F1-related licence is not relevant. FOM or Ferrari would have had every right to demand it be removed as a mod if it features copyrighted material, but nothing justifies using someone else's work without their consent by a 3rd party developer. Also using a model as reference as they claim is not the same as reusing it after barely modifying and optimising it, which is what seems to have happened here.

 

[Justin Davis]

I think I found the model on TurboSquid. It costs $159. That's right, $159. My mate owes me more than that.

Besides the fact that your views on the subject are laughably out of touch, how can you expect anyone to take your opinion seriously when you are hiding behind a brand new account? You say you are no stranger to the modding scene, yet your account (on one of the biggest and most popular sim mod hosting sites) was created only today, specifically to comment on this issue.

This is either you hiding your unpopular opinion behind an alt-account or someone with a motive to try and defend codemasters and/or the contracted modeller that used the community model.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Even if that happens, it's not how things are done in any business in the world.

I am not convinced by that statement.
What are you suggesting as a resolution?

 

[Gergo Panker]

I am not convinced by that statement.
What are you suggesting as a resolution?

These things not happening in the first place, or when found out, owning up to the malpractice and offering compensation that is suitable. IMO seeing it happen with such a large developer with a significantly larger budget I imagine than most developers in this niche sends an extremely dangerous message to both aspiring and well established artists and this business as a whole, even if it is an isolated case with a contract artist. If it's done by staff-artists with supervision, oh god.

The example I provided in my previous post about a real car is not so far-fetched, it just happens to be a clearly regulated segment of business and life and a palpable product. However, just because something is virtual or exists solely on the internet, it shouldn't mean that a lame excuse and a lazy attempt to clear it up with a pat on the back should make it go away. Just replace the 3D model with a physical product, and you'll see what the accepted norm is in the "real" world.

EDIT: that said, the mod being unlicenced content in the first place probably means that it's more like a moral issue rather than a legal one.

 

[David O'Reilly]

These things not happening in the first place, or when found out, owning up to the malpractice and offering compensation that is suitable. IMO seeing it happen with such a large developer with a significantly larger budget I imagine than most developers in this niche sends an extremely dangerous message to both aspiring and well established artists and this business as a whole, even if it is an isolated case with a contract artist. If it's done by staff-artists with supervision, oh god.

The example I provided in my previous post about a real car is not so far-fetched, it just happens to be a clearly regulated segment of business and life and a palpable product. However, just because something is virtual or exists solely on the internet, it shouldn't mean that a lame excuse and a lazy attempt to clear it up with a pat on the back should make it go away. Just replace the 3D model with a physical product, and you'll see what the accepted norm is in the "real" world.

I already have a bit of an idea as to what "the norm" is thanks.
You still haven't suggested a resolution.
We all know it's bad. Saying how terrible it is doesnt fix it.
Mine is not how any business in the world works apparently, what is your suggested resolution?

So far they have admitted it and offered (a laughably low) payment.
That is progress.
From here they need to negotiate.