how to improove braking performance?

[Arkadiusz Wawrzyniak]

Hi. I seen some crazy short brakings in acc which I find impossible no matter what on presets. Like for exapmple Monza where at t1 people brake at 150m mark and I have to brake at 175m. Tried trail braking, threshold braking, more downforce. Nothing.
So.. my question is how to tweak caster, toe, etc. to improove braking performance. I only know how camber affects lateral and longitudal grip. Caster was not available in AC. Btw. I hold some top 10 or even top 3 times (few WR on less popular combinations) in AC on borrowed setups. I am not a noob Still I am slower by 2sec in ACC, mainly cause of braking.

 

[Jivesauce]

I know it's not what you're looking for but it sounds like I'm very similar to you in terms of speed in both AC and ACC and I'm really convinced it's a technique issue, not a setup problem, at least for me. I just can't seem to match the braking of the top guys in ACC and it's where I am losing the majority of my time, but I watched this video where this person drives every car with standard setups and he is still destroying me under braking:

So it seems clear to me that it's something I just need to work on rather than try to tune out. But hey, if you find something that helps, let me know!

 

[Kek700]

i tend to agree, i too have found that braking at Monza problematic, ( it’s the only circuit i have driven in ACC ) although i brake at the 150m sign i find it difficult to trail brake the car into the actual corner, usually not getting the line i want. True for the next S corner too.
i have put virtually no effort at all into ACC, but i would still like to know the answer too, always
suspected it is down to carefully selecting ABS. It’s like the braking is not predictable lap by lap.
Probably just me though.

 

[RasmusP]

Hi. I seen some crazy short brakings in acc which I find impossible no matter what on presets. Like for exapmple Monza where at t1 people brake at 150m mark and I have to brake at 175m. Tried trail braking, threshold braking, more downforce. Nothing.
So.. my question is how to tweak caster, toe, etc. to improove braking performance. I only know how camber affects lateral and longitudal grip. Caster was not available in AC. Btw. I hold some top 10 or even top 3 times (few WR on less popular combinations) in AC on borrowed setups. I am not a noob Still I am slower by 2sec in ACC, mainly cause of braking.

You should record a video of a good lap of your current skill. I'll happily try to rip it apart as much as I'm able to with my current skill.
If you could set the telemetry laps to the maximum and do a few "good" laps that represent your current skill and upload the telemetry data, I could compare it to my almost pole lap from one of the RD races.

The files will be at:
\\Documents\Assetto Corsa Competizione\MoTeC

Just select everything that's in there and zip it. I'll pick your best lap from there and have a quick go at comparing your driving to mine. Maybe I'll find something

My qualy time was a 1:48.0xxh but that wasn't in "hotlap" mode so a bit less grip than in this mode.
Hotlap mode PB was 47.2 with the Jaguar.

Which leads me to an important question: You do try to beat the world records in hotlap mode and not in normal practice I hope? If not, go into hotlap mode and enjoy the massively increased grip

 

[luxxx797]

I only know how camber affects lateral and longitudal grip.

Camber affects braking distance too, more(negative) camber = less tire surface on the asphalt

 

[Giovaneveterano]

My rules of thumb for better braking with GT3 cars:

• don't overrev the downshifts,
• don't smash the brake pedal (weight transfer is slower than the single seaters),
• wait for turn in.

 

[Arkadiusz Wawrzyniak]

And how about traction control for hotlaping? The lower the better? In AC i never run TC at all

 

[RasmusP]

And how about traction control for hotlaping? The lower the better? In AC i never run TC at all

Depends.
Wheelspin in acc is always slower from my experience. Without any TC all cars spin too much.
BMW I use TC 1, jaguar I use TC 8.
Just try with which setting you get the best exits.
Note: for T1 at monza I put the TC to 1 with the jaguar. Everything else restricts too much.

 

[Arkadiusz Wawrzyniak]

This is my fastest lap so far but could have done better. Setup downloaded from racedepartment, cabable of lod-mid 1:44. I did high 45. Could have done mid 45. I don't like using this much TC. I tried other cars as well. Huracan does not allow such agressive driving. Touch a curb and it spins violently. How come from being so fast in AC and iRacing, I am so slow and can't find myself around ACC?! So frustrating.

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[Neilski]

I did high 45

I guess you mean 35?

 

[Arkadiusz Wawrzyniak]

I guess you mean 35?

Oh, yes. With bmw on a bit tweaked agressive preset I did 1:34:98. Seems to be faster even though feels like does not want to turn that good.

 

[Kek700]

@Arkadiusz Wawrzyniak
“ so slow and can't find myself around ACC?! So frustrating.“
Your not alone there, it’s a mystery to me too.
Hoping that as time goes by and more information
Is available for this sim and all will be revealed.
I live in hope.
If you get your head around it, let me know.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Camber affects braking distance too, more(negative) camber = less tire surface on the asphalt

That's not how it works, btw. For the standard range of cambers used in most cars you get roughly the same surface area.

Idk how it is in ACC but in AC camber does not impact braking at all. It was working as you described early in development, but that wasn't in line with RL data so they patched it out.

 

[DrRob]

After some hours in I also discovered that I mostly lack in the braking department. Good braking is really a race winning aspect if you're in a really competitive race, where the other cars and drivers match your ability but are better on the brakes.
I always notice that when racing against the AI. I set the AI to a challenging level and try to get to the front as much as possible. Usually this works just fine to gain some 5-6 positions in a 15-30 minutes race.
Where I loose the most time is in corners I think. I wait to step on the brakes as late as I dare, but the AI can still brake some meters later it seems. I don't suspect an unfair AI advantage here. I also saw this in videos of online laps of seemingly really capable drivers. If I try braking at the same point I usually outbrake myself.

So still a lot to learn here for me. Thanks for the pointers so far and keep them coming.
I want to improve my braking to some extent....and my exit speed on the mistral straight for that matter. Different story tho.

 

[Alex Townsend]

I always used to brake quite early but it appears that once you are used to how hard you can actually brake, it's just to keep that initial hard pressure until you reach the apex, trailing it into the corner and lifting off as you do so to allow more accurate steering. After you do it a few times you'll start to do it everywhere and before you know it you'll be keeping up with the faster drivers into the corners.
I have no idea how hard the AI have to be to consistently beat you as I'm purely online since this title released multiplayer

 

[DrRob]

I also use trail braking quite extensively @ZeroRisk . However I release brake pedal pressure when entering the corner after the first heavy braking at the original braking point and trail until maybe apex. I feel that weight transfer is less detrimental to stability that way. Do you really apply full braking pressure all the way to the apex?
So, maybe I am too cautious here and hence too slow. Maybe depends also on the car and setup? I frequently use the Nissan with safe setup. I cannot cope with the aggressive setup pronounced vertical rotation on weight transfer situations, especially in the Ferrari.

Side note:
At the moment I have AI at 90/30, sometimes up to 95/30 depending on the track. With 95/30 I can still win from maybe 13th position out of 17 after 30 minutes on Zolder or Misano, but struggle to keep up with 90/30 AI on Paul Ricard and come out 10th.

 

[Neilski]

I was getting tired of hearing squealy brakes in ACC so I formed a habit of closing down the brake ducts to quite low values. Then, during a race at Nurb, I started to find my braking points were waaaaay too late, especially into T1. After a few laps of confusion, I suddenly realised that (unlike in plenty of races at other tracks, and maybe in different cars too) my brakes were overheating. (The ABS settings can make a difference too of course.)

I'm quite possibly the only idiot who has wrecked a race for themselves like this, but I just thought I'd mention it

 

[RasmusP]

ACC has the beautiful function of outputting telemetry just by selecting it in the setup menu.
When I read "I do trailbrake like xyz" or "the AI is braking later, I can't brake as late" "I'm already turning the steering wheel before the apex".
Really, without a slow motion side by side replay or telemetry it's all just inaccurate words that could result in way too many different ways.

You guys should record a good lap and compare your telemetry. Maybe do something like T1 Monza only so you all record a lap where you nailed that corner in your opinion and in your available level of skill.

Then we would really see what some of us are doing and what is faster and what needs to be worked on.

Here's my best lap. Jaguar, Hotlap mode (more grip, remember). 1:47.484

You can see the metres (should be the same for everyone! (F9 to switch between time and distance).
- Braking: exactly at 750m. Starting to release from 905m, released at 933m.
- Throttle: spikes are downshifts, I start to go back on the throttle between the corners and then lift it again for the left part. It's not my pedal input, it's what the TC restricts it to afaik.
I'm completely back on the throttle while still turning to the maximum!
The distance is 956m where I put my foot down.

Maximum steering angles are -132° for the right hander, 189° for the left hander. That's quite a lot I think but ACC requires a bit overturning sometimes. At least with the Jaguar!

Maximum speed is 279.3 km/h before braking (Wing at 1). Minimum speed through the chicane is 60.3 km/h.
You see my trailbraking is actually pretty short and a nice exponential curve. Steering is pretty linear though!
Throttle is spikey as heck due to the TC stuttering it at the slip limit. TC is at "1" for that turn, 8 for the rest of the track.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

IMHO most of the super late braking points of fast drivers come down to really high entry speeds that just need less braking.

Personally i do two things while trying to get close to those super late braking points:

1) Drive with ABS off and adjust brake balance (BB) to get the car turn in well with brakes on. All cars will need some rearward BB (once in an extreme case with lambo i even reached max rear BB and it felt like car could take more).
2) Add around +2 to that balance, turn ABS on and continue threshold braking as I were without ABS.
What that does, is a small sacrifice of straight line braking performance (that can be minimized with practice) for really well behaved car on corner entry - increasing entry speed by a lot.

Thou note that many fast drivers will floor the pedal and/or use more forward BB, this only means that they are already able to control the car better it transitions. In fact i've noticed myself tweaking BB again toward front after many laps of practice. It's just that I think it's more intuitive to start from rearward BB, as it sets a good baseline to follow that can be then pushed in small steps. While initial front loaded BB is just tricky from the get go.


Besides that, i'd make sure car is close to optimum setup wise, so front splitter is as low as possible without stalling (stalling front splitter will trash braking performance really hard), tweak dampers to get the best grip, and see temps and other basics are ok.

 

[Jivesauce]

It never occurred to me to switch my TC settings for a specific corner, shows what a dinosaur I am.

My new TS-PC Racer has a button on the steering wheel that can be pushed as well as toggled up and down. Does anyone know if there is a way to make the "push button" function cycle through abs, traction control, and possibly brake balance so they can all be adjusted with the toggle functionality?