How to tame the Formula Extreme?

Peter Kerényi · Mar 23, 2016

Hi! I have been mostly running post 2000 Formula 1 cars in AMS lately. Driving the V10 is no problem, I am significantly faster that the AI at 100%. The Reiza, having no native TC is a bigger challenge but I can still be faster than the AI. However with the Extreme it's haaaard. On a "simple" track like Interlagos I can get relatively close to the two leading Mercedeses, but on a track like Montreal with slow, low gear corners I am lost.

From a setup point of view I usually give the car more rear wing than front to somewhat stabilise it, and put the brake bias at 59 (lower bias locks my rears, strange)

So do you have any tips to tame these beasts full of torque? Any setups? Am I alone?

AussieDucker · Mar 23, 2016

Not that this answers your question but I'm having difficulty with Formula Extreme, too. I race almost exclusively with the Superkarts, SuperV8s and the Extremes and with the karts and v8s I have the AI set at around 95-100. With the Extremes I need the AI to be hovering around the low 80s and that's with TC!

ouvert · Mar 23, 2016

what are yout laptimes on Montreal (modern)?
I did few laps (my first time in Extreme except quick first look) and with 100% AI I manage to get on their time (1:20 .. now I know it is so slow) .. still with early braking, mistakes and very conservative throttle apply and lots of shortshiftings ...
So happy with that result I quit to record it for you ... than I loaded it again to try some setup changes with same settings and AI was 2 seconds faster than it was before (1:17)

... so I guess I $uck ...
I mean I had better laps started ... 0.9-1.5 seconds delta but I messed those laps usually trying to push too much in turn 10

.. I`m confident I could take 1 second of that time, maybe more .. after all I did only 10-15 laps in that car so far and I finnished without crashing maybe 6 of them

..
For me not really being openwheeler, high downforce guy it is really hard to be consistent in it

changes I did: power diff: 40, Brake Bias: 59:41, Rear ARB: 1click down, Rear Springs: 1-2 clicks down (based on motec suspension needs more tunning ...also more laps to tell)
I will try lower aero .. there are enough long straights to benefit and zero really fast sweepers

Chris · Mar 23, 2016

@Oscar Hardwick gave me a great explanation as to why this car is so hard to drive, especially on default.

It's primarily to do with the fact that the chassis is incredibly stiff. Hopefully Reiza (@Renato Simioni

) can loosen it up a bit to make it behave a little more predictably. On default you cannot take 130R flatout because the front left tyre lifts off the ground slightly... It's that stiff.

Main pointers would be to soften the suspension, increase the travel range. Tweaking the differential settings is also massively important to being able to get on the power early. These new-gen F1 cars produce a crazy amount of torque, so adjusting the differential power, coast and pre-load settings are crucial.

P*Funk · Mar 23, 2016

Yea I started a thread over on the Reiza forums discussing my issues with the Extreme in AMS. Default set up is way stiffer than the SCE one but even using the old SCE default set up you get way more weirdness in low and medium speed corners compared to before in my opinion.

Just into Montreal Turns1/2 I get lots of tire locking and smoke despite driving it basically normally which is odd.

Matt88 · Mar 23, 2016

Also having the same problem. The Formula Reiza is also stiff but can easily be dialled out. However in the Formula Extreme, I've lowered suspension, ARB, dampers and the rest, yet when i drive normally, as i would in any other car, I've got 1 wheel in the air, smoke and the back end always wanting to swap ends.

Although when I do manage to do a few laps this car does feel like it will be an excellent car. I thought it was just me, glad it isn't.

Will try to play about with the diff settings more as well and see what impact this has. Cheers for the tips Chris Stacey

Bram Hengeveld · Mar 23, 2016

Like @Chris Stacey said. Diff changes you feel the most. Plus you need pure throttle control so leave that heavy right foot at home

This is not a beginner car, which I think is brilliantly done. Not many can control a real life Formula 1 either (Hello Hamster from Top Gear

) let alone driving it on the edge.

Marcel Kleene · Mar 24, 2016

For me, I have the impression that Extremes in AMS are easier to handle than in GSCE.

Colin O Callaghan · Mar 24, 2016

Matt88 said:
Also having the same problem. The Formula Reiza is also stiff but can easily be dialled out. However in the Formula Extreme, I've lowered suspension, ARB, dampers and the rest, yet when i drive normally, as i would in any other car, I've got 1 wheel in the air, smoke and the back end always wanting to swap ends.

Although when I do manage to do a few laps this car does feel like it will be an excellent car. I thought it was just me, glad it isn't.

Will try to play about with the diff settings more as well and see what impact this has. Cheers for the tips Chris Stacey

I used to have the 1 wheel in the air at interlagos but not any more, I have or am in progress with a WIP setup and have mastered a proper racing line that I never get the wheel in the air anymore, well unless i go off the race line at corners or miss the apex, then i get the wheel in the air, I think its about mastering race lines dude

I have posted my WIP setup on the setups page, change the Downforce levels to 43 front and 48 rear and test, practice staying behind the AI and watch their raceline, I will try make a video after long weekend when I get back from Dublin to show the difference, now for me no more wheel in the air or smoke at back which was annoying me.

Qazdar Karim · Mar 24, 2016

This car needs a physics remake, i hope Niels will give it a serious try soon

But honestly i find it quite easy to drive, you just need to get used to upshifting while progressively putting the power down (not short shifting), it's not something you do on other cars often.

Also, you need to use the RPM vertical bar on the LCD for shifting points, not the leds

Chris · Mar 24, 2016

@Eero o. Do you mind if I ask what you find funny about Qazdar's post?

Chris · Mar 25, 2016

Chris Stacey said:
@Oscar Hardwick gave me a great explanation as to why this car is so hard to drive, especially on default.

It's primarily to do with the fact that the chassis is incredibly stiff. Hopefully Reiza (@Renato Simioni ) can loosen it up a bit to make it behave a little more predictably. On default you cannot take 130R flatout because the front left tyre lifts off the ground slightly... It's that stiff.

Main pointers would be to soften the suspension, increase the travel range. Tweaking the differential settings is also massively important to being able to get on the power early. These new-gen F1 cars produce a crazy amount of torque, so adjusting the differential power, coast and pre-load settings are crucial.

Just curious, why are people rating my post "Angry"? lol, what is there to get angry at in what I said? haha

Qazdar Karim · Mar 25, 2016

Chris Stacey said:
@Oscar Hardwick gave me a great explanation as to why this car is so hard to drive, especially on default.

It's primarily to do with the fact that the chassis is incredibly stiff. Hopefully Reiza (@Renato Simioni ) can loosen it up a bit to make it behave a little more predictably. On default you cannot take 130R flatout because the front left tyre lifts off the ground slightly... It's that stiff.

If you compare current F1 cars to older ones, you will notice that they have more rake 1.9° for the red bull for example, even the Mercedes 0.9° which looks quite low (but still high), and in my opinion, it's designed that way to allow running very soft rear and improve traction, but aerodynamics should follow because with such rakes the downforce shifts to the front by quite a lot on "usual designs".

On the F.extrem ,i couldn't get a good setup with a high rake which makes me think that the optimal rake is very low compared to what it could be on real life cars.

paracletus · Mar 26, 2016

Could be a few physics anomalies with it, but -- it is worth remembering that these cars are incredibly slow compared to f1 cars from 10-15 years ago. They are ~5 seconds slower per lap with poor grip by f1 standards. Could be accurate, who knows.

Qazdar Karim · Mar 26, 2016

Not really ...

Chris · Mar 26, 2016

paracletus said:
f1 cars from 10-15 years ago. They are ~5 seconds slower per lap

Yeah but back then there was re-fueling too, so average race pace was much quicker as well.

paracletus · Mar 26, 2016

I meant in qualifying - comparing the 2014 car to 2004. The car in the game must be based on the 2014 model as it was available in GSC for quite a while.
It does appear that the 2016 cars are now much quicker (about 3 seconds a lap quicker in qualifying than a couple of years ago, surprisingly), but that isn't what is modelled in the game.
e.g. qualifying 2004 Monza - 1:20.089
2014 Monza - 1:24.109

David Dominguez · Mar 26, 2016

Monza used to be a bit faster in 2004 though, they could cut a lot in the first 2 chicanes, now they have those big sausage kerbs that makes the corner speed much lower. Also the setup in modern F1 isn't as optimal as before, as they have to run with full tanks at the start of the race, probably compromising the ride heights and other setup bits a bit in qualy trim.