Hydraulic Brake pedal set

[jfh123@yahoo.com]

Are any members using these Hydraulic Brake pedal sets?

They both use non-load cell/potentiometer .
They use 1000psi pressure transducers (x2 simtechracing?) for the brake pedal.

http://bjsimracing.com/index.php?id_product=20&controller=product (£815 inc Vat EU (Spain Based).

Or these

https://www.simtechracing.co.uk/products/hydraulic-sim-pedals (£810 inc Vat UK (UK based))

How do they compare to Heusinkveld or prosim etc?



bjsimracing say

ELECTRONICS
The load cell measures the throttle position and the two pressure sensors measure the clutch and brake pressure. Unlike designs with hall sensor and potentiometers and other components, the load cell and pressure sensors provide a real linear output in relation to the pedal input. Its precision is incomparable.
The 12bits USB controller board ensures that each pedal responds instantly and accurately to your preferred platform.
A 20kg load cell for the accelerator pedal.
2 high-quality 1000psi pressure sensors for the brake and clutch.


BRAKE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM
Our hydraulic brake system is composed of 2 Wilwood master pumps with their respective oil tanks, which we inject through the hoses and their 2 3-way valves, the oil to our double bearing slave cylinder, which is where we get create the totally real touch.

CLUTCH HYDRAULIC SYSTEM
The clutch is composed of 1 Wilwood master pump with its respective oil tank and 1 double-slave slave cylinder and its entire hydraulic system.

HYDRAULIC SYSTEM
The pressure sensors of great quality and reliability that we use for our hydraulic system, obtain a super high precision and a really incredible linearity.

In the slave cylinder is where we can modify the hardness or travel of our brake, with the combination offered by BJsimracing.
The combination for the brake and clutch pedal is composed of fibroelast and spring, their combinations are very variable getting forces from 30kg to 110kg.
The pedals include 1 kit of 2 springs and 2 fibroelast.
On our website you can find fibroelast kits of different hardnesses.


ACCELERATOR SYSTEM
Our system in the accelerator is composed of 2 types of shock absorbers, these shock absorbers add strength and offer resistance when we press or release the pedal.

The touch is smooth and precise, its 20kg load cell gives us that resolution and precision we need to have in an accelerator.

CALIBRATION SYSTEM
We offer the calibration program so that the client can modify the pedal stroke to his liking.


CHARACTERISTICS

PEDALERA BASIC:
High-end pro hydraulic pedaling
Maximum precision with 12bit controller
High quality electronic and mechanical materials
Maximum control in accelerator, brake and clutch
Regulates pedal grades
Configurable braking pressure
Configurable clutch pressure
"D" shaped pedal plates in curved design, ideal for foot pedals
Movement pedal plate
Kit 2 springs and 2 fibroelast
Plug & Play connection
The pedals come filled with oil ready to use
Compatible with PC

simtechracing
Only the brake pedal is Hydraulic.
Hydraulic Sim Pedals
Features:

Clutch Brake and Accelerator
2 connection options Direct to SimuCube (X11 Socket) or USB
Billet Aluminium Pedals
Closed loop system, no leaks
Fully adjustable brake feel
Basic Clutch Operation
High Quality components
Optional base plate with heel pad
Easy calibration
Extremely strong custom pedal box
The brake is neither load cell or potentiometer it’s a 2000psi pressure transducer

The throttle and clutch are potentiometers
All 12 Bit



How do they compare to Heusinkveld or prosim etc?

 

[callumjtc]

I'm liking the look of the BJ as it stands, nice Wilwood parts and a hydraulic clutch is cool, both pedal boxes are the same, OBP billet aluminium (I was going to use these myself), but the BJ pedals just look a bit better at a glance. At this level they will simply be different to Heusinkveld, maybe more realistic on pedal feel depending on how it is setup? The Heusinkvelds will be lower maintainence, but will not give the actual hydraulc feeling, I think they feel a bit too perfect. But you will be happy with either I say.

 

[Fairytalq]

but will not give the actual hydraulc feeling

Hydraulic sim pedals do not, in my experience, replicate the feeling of a real car better than a high end set up load cell set. The reason is simple: since the hydraulic fluid doesn't compress, the lines are way too short to show significant deformation, and there's no spinning brake disks with lots of inertia to stop, the only way to have pedal travel is to use the same skateboard bushings as regular load cell sets to give some travel to the pedal. It's basically just a way to convert the pedal's rotating movement around its axis to a straight pull on the skateboard bushing. All those pedals are actually doing is looking cool at the cost of expense (and eventually maintenance). That said, they're probably solidly built. I'd say save yourself the trouble.

 

[elloLeo Kinnunen]

will not give the actual hydraulc feeling

Hi,

I had considered choosing HE ultimates one day, so I'm curious about your comment. Was it in reference to the non-hydraulic HE pros? Or the do the Ultimates somehow lose the actual hydraulic feeling even though they are hydraulic?

"The Sim Pedals Ultimate are a full-hydraulic pedal set: All 3 pedals feature an adjustable hydraulic damper" Source: https://heusinkveld.com/products/sim-pedals/sim-pedals-ultimate/?v=6cc98ba2045f

 

[Bitacaia]

Hydraulic sim pedals do not, in my experience, replicate the feeling of a real car better than a high end set up load cell set. The reason is simple: since the hydraulic fluid doesn't compress, the lines are way too short to show significant deformation, and there's no spinning brake disks with lots of inertia to stop, the only way to have pedal travel is to use the same skateboard bushings as regular load cell sets to give some travel to the pedal. It's basically just a way to convert the pedal's rotating movement around its axis to a straight pull on the skateboard bushing. All those pedals are actually doing is looking cool at the cost of expense (and eventually maintenance). That said, they're probably solidly built. I'd say save yourself the trouble.

I have the same opinion.

I have made DIY hydraulic pedals (brake and clutch) and my conclusion is: Too much work for having the same result as a Load Cell Pedal.
You will need more parts, therefor more expensive. You will have to play with fluids and leakages (and if you go for a DOT brake fluid, you will have a corrosive fluid at home...).
I wouldn´t do it again. Soon i will convert the hydraulic clutch for a normal Potentiometer and springs. I will still use the brake pedal as it is.

My tip: Load Cell all the way

Tiago Viana

 

[callumjtc]

I have the same opinion.

I have made DIY hydraulic pedals (brake and clutch) and my conclusion is: Too much work for having the same result as a Load Cell Pedal.
You will need more parts, therefor more expensive. You will have to play with fluids and leakages (and if you go for a DOT brake fluid, you will have a corrosive fluid at home...).
I wouldn´t do it again. Soon i will convert the hydraulic clutch for a normal Potentiometer and springs. I will still use the brake pedal as it is.

My tip: Load Cell all the way

Tiago Viana

After building my own DIY pedals, I personally prefer the hydraulics feel, however agree there is little to choose between them plus you are spot on considering maintainence. I use a pneumatic clutch however, which only requires a master cylinder, big spring and a pressure sensor. My pedals cost me less than Heusinkveld Pros, though obviously were much more work. I think a big advantage is the ease of changing resistance. 2 nuts slide bushings off and on, do nuts back up. Done in 30 secs, easy to experiment with.

 

[mcnasty1]

Know this is old but im about to purchase a pedal box and go the hydraulic route again..i did this mid ti my t3pas a few years back and love them.the real gear bushings from ricmotech are great for adjusting super stiff to softer with a quick change of the bushings on pull slave cylinder..i used a pressure sensor I wired to the existing thrusmaster board.power ground and signal just like the pot. Sensor that exist already..they read perfect only have to go to settings in game to adjust some times depending on game..

 

[mcnasty1]

I have more pics but they apparently are too large of files to post.

 

[3ller]

Hydraulic sim pedals do not, in my experience, replicate the feeling of a real car better than a high end set up load cell set. The reason is simple: since the hydraulic fluid doesn't compress, the lines are way too short to show significant deformation, and there's no spinning brake disks with lots of inertia to stop, the only way to have pedal travel is to use the same skateboard bushings as regular load cell sets to give some travel to the pedal. It's basically just a way to convert the pedal's rotating movement around its axis to a straight pull on the skateboard bushing. All those pedals are actually doing is looking cool at the cost of expense (and eventually maintenance). That said, they're probably solidly built. I'd say save yourself the trouble.

I have the same opinion.

I have made DIY hydraulic pedals (brake and clutch) and my conclusion is: Too much work for having the same result as a Load Cell Pedal.
You will need more parts, therefor more expensive. You will have to play with fluids and leakages (and if you go for a DOT brake fluid, you will have a corrosive fluid at home...).
I wouldn´t do it again. Soon i will convert the hydraulic clutch for a normal Potentiometer and springs. I will still use the brake pedal as it is.

My tip: Load Cell all the way

Tiago Viana

Im with Tiago in here also, I was a noobie when i take a shot into hydralics and IMO its not worth it, i had problem with low quality masters cylinders leakage more difficult build and in the end its a complicated method to do the same, in the end in both systems you are compressing rubber bushings and these are the ones that will give you the mechanical feeling in the end, the stack of rubbers you use in your slave cylinder or the stack of rubbers in a load cell based model, in one method you push directly in the other through the fluid that may add a little bit of hose expansion and a little dampened feeling. Its to much hassle extra cost for 95% the same result. In my next build i plan to use a mountain bike rear shock that will provide hopefully the little dampened hydraulic feeling, i will have to add rubber bushings to put in the middle of the rod and a different spring with lower rate.

 

[Bitacaia]

Just connect a simple and cheap motorbike steering damper. Look for a cool one, and is done.

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The problem i see with the bicycle suspension: it will be hard to fine tune the spring rate and the dampening effect. For fine tuning you will need to spend allot of money. Buy one suspension with dampening tuning and different spring rates... And i prefer to compress rubber than a spring.

my 2 cents

Tiago Viana

 

[mrbean_phillip]

Hi,

I had considered choosing HE ultimates one day, so I'm curious about your comment. Was it in reference to the non-hydraulic HE pros? Or the do the Ultimates somehow lose the actual hydraulic feeling even though they are hydraulic?

"The Sim Pedals Ultimate are a full-hydraulic pedal set: All 3 pedals feature an adjustable hydraulic damper" Source: https://heusinkveld.com/products/sim-pedals/sim-pedals-ultimate/?v=6cc98ba2045f

Using hydraulic dampers on pedals doesn’t make them hydraulic. The HE’s all use loadcells on all 3 pedals.

Real hydraulic pedals use hydraulic master- and slave cylinders on the brake and clutch, with pressure transducers as measurement devices....

Chees,
Beano

edit: To clarify, here is a pic of my high-end diy hydraulic pedals:

Below showing the pivoting Tilton Racing master-cylinders I used in the build.

 

[3ller]

The problem i see with the bicycle suspension: it will be hard to fine tune the spring rate and the dampening effect. For fine tuning you will need to spend allot of money. Buy one suspension with dampening tuning and different spring rates... And i prefer to compress rubber than a spring.

The idea is to replace the original spring with one with a rate that is suitable for the job, you still can stack rubbers in mountain bike shocks just disassembling the ""top head"" and you can remove the original spring and insert rubbers and as you said if you spend lot of money you can have a shock with adjustable rebound and ""compression dampening"", you can have one with just rebound adjustment for 40€ aprox, without any adjustment even for less and you still can adjust spring preload easily, also installation seems to be easier.

 

[3ller]

Using hydraulic dampers on pedals doesn’t make them hydraulic. The HE’s all use loadcells on all 3 pedals.

Real hydraulic pedals use hydraulic master- and slave cylinders on the brake and clutch, with pressure transducers as measurement devices....

Chees,
Beano

edit: To clarify, here is a pic of my high-end diy hydraulic pedals:

Below showing the pivoting Tilton Racing master-cylinders I used in the build.

My point is that in the end you are doing the same in a more complicated way, the mechanical feel in your pedal comes from the rubber bushings you have installed in your slave cylinder in a 95% to say something, the rest is maybe a little bit of hose expansion and the compresion of master and slave cylinder sealings, it is supercool the setup you have and those doppler pedals looks gorgeous, what model of potentiometer are you using in the throttle?

 

[mrbean_phillip]

Hi Mate,
I use a LVIT as measurement device on the throttle

 

[Philip K]

Using hydraulic dampers on pedals doesn’t make them hydraulic. The HE’s all use loadcells on all 3 pedals.

Real hydraulic pedals use hydraulic master- and slave cylinders on the brake and clutch, with pressure transducers as measurement devices....

Chees,
Beano

edit: To clarify, here is a pic of my high-end diy hydraulic pedals:

Below showing the pivoting Tilton Racing master-cylinders I used in the build.

Beano, how are you finding the Doppler pedals as a lower cost alternative to the Tilton pedals?

 

[mrbean_phillip]

Hi Phil,
‘They are significantly better than the comparable Tiltons, I have those here as well. For the price, the Dopplers can’t be beaten, they have ball-bearings on the pedal-pivots, plus, I am using Tilton pivot-style master cylinders - overall by far the best pedals I have ever used, that includes the pro-sim hydraulics.

Yes, they were pretty expensive to finish, but very well worth it for me. I have a work log over on iRacing.

 

[Philip K]

Hi Phil,
‘They are significantly better than the comparable Tiltons, I have those here as well. For the price, the Dopplers can’t be beaten, they have ball-bearings on the pedal-pivots, plus, I am using Tilton pivot-style master cylinders - overall by far the best pedals I have ever used, that includes the pro-sim hydraulics.

Yes, they were pretty expensive to finish, but very well worth it for me. I have a work log over on iRacing.

the Doppler‘s did look good but always nice to hear from someone who has them in hand to judge the quality.

I‘ll get a look at your thread

cheers

Phil

 

[mrbean_phillip]

Cheers Mate, here’s the direct link -> https://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/3631873.page

 

[Bitacaia]

For those who look for a a low budget pedal box, I recommend to use this Chinese Handbrake, cut the top of the handle, and fix some pedal face plates.

Make this, 3 times, and you have a low budget, with acceptable quality. The handle have some kind of bushing in the rotation axis (don´t look like brass). and don´t have much slack. I´m really pleased with them!!!

Here is my setup (old pic):

more pics:

Pedal Box V1

9 new items · Album by Tiago Viana

photos.app.goo.gl

Tiago Viana

 

[3ller]

For those who look for a a low budget pedal box, I recommend to use this Chinese Handbrake, cut the top of the handle, and fix some pedal face plates.
View attachment 365518

Make this, 3 times, and you have a low budget, with acceptable quality. The handle have some kind of bushing in the rotation axis (don´t look like brass). and don´t have much slack. I´m really pleased with them!!!

Here is my setup (old pic):
View attachment 365521

more pics:

Pedal Box V1

9 new items · Album by Tiago Viana

photos.app.goo.gl

Tiago Viana

This is an awesome low budget setup there!! congrats! very smart solution! how much is the pedal ratio roughly it seems a little bit on the high side, what is the measure from pivot to the rod end hole aprox?