Image Space Incorporated Exclusive Interview

Paul Jeffrey

Premium
rfactor 2.jpg

In the latest addition to our series of interviews with the big hitters from the world of sim racing, RaceDepartment recently sat down with developers of the world renowned rFactor and rFactor 2 racing simulators to discuss the future of the rFactor 2, new content and what highly sought after enhancements fans can expect in future.


Founded in 1992, Image Space Incorporated (ISI) is a well respected software developer specializing in the fields of computer game development, “man-in-the-loop” simulator architectures, computer image generation, and entertainment systems integration.

ISI has a well established, and highly skilled development team, with both artists and programmers dedicated to the design and development of cost-effective, high quality software and computer products.

With experience in the latest hardware and software systems, ISI offers rapid time-to-market and real-time performance for a variety of gaming and simulation applications. A creative flair, robust technology, and in-depth knowledge of the gaming industry gives ISI the technical and creative edge required in today’s highly competitive market.

As rFactor 2 continues to go from strength to strength in recent months RaceDepartment thought this to be the ideal time to sit down with the team and discus their premium simulator, rFactor 2.

RD: Hello, many thanks for the opportunity to have a chat with you today. It’s a great pleasure for me to talk today about one of my personal favourite race simulations on the market, rFactor 2. As I usually do I would like to open up this little Q&A by asking you to introduce yourself and tell us a little about what you do over at ISI?

TW: I’m Tim Wheatley and my primary role at ISI is the commercial licensing of our products. This is for companies who want to promote their brand at a trade show, or new companies setting up sim centers where they charge for access to their hardware.

RD: Thank you. So it’s now customary in these Q&A’s to start off with some light questions about those behind the scenes and get to know a bit about who is involved in creating the sims we love. First things first, what car do you drive on a day to day basis at home and why?

TW: Toyota RAV4, because it was cheap and fits my wife, kids and dogs. Maybe one day I’ll just answer “because I wanted it” – but not today!

RD: A controversial one here - who’s the quickest virtual driver at ISI?

TW: Right now I’d say Christopher Elliott, but we’re going to say that’s because he gets the most track time...

RD: Back to the world of pixels, what would you consider your favourite racing / road car is to drive outside of rFactor / rFactor 2?

TW: I don’t have a lot of time to run sims (even our own), but I like low downforce historics, so I’ve had rare fun with the 1960’s cars in other sims. There is a fair bit of nostalgia for me in firing up a Lotus 49 in iRacing, but I prefer period tracks when I can get them, and it’s nice to see some sims doing a great job with those.

RD: When not sampling the world of the virtual racing car do you play any other type of game? What’s on your computer at the moment that you tend to gravitate towards in any free time you might have ?

TW: I’ve always enjoyed space games alongside racing sims, I’m using Elite: Dangerous whenever I need to escape real life for a bit! I don’t have a lot of time to play anything else.

RD: ISI have a stellar reputation in the sim racing (and real world racing) industry with titles like rFactor, rFactor 2 and rFactor PRO in recent years but still run a relatively tight ship over in the good old US of A, how many people do you have working on rFactor 2 at ISI currently?

TW: Most projects work under external contractors hired to do specific content, but the core team of full-time software engineers (who aren’t building cars or tracks) is four. We have two full-time car guys, two full-time track guys, plus contractors working with them. We’re a pretty compact organization.

RD: Obviously you provide simulation software for a number of racing teams simulators in the real world, what sort of feedback do you receive from the professional drivers when they sample the consumer version of the game and how do they compare it to their real life race cars?

TW: Most of what they will try in the retail version has been built by a third party, often without access to the car or data. Good third-party content and first-party items get good feedback.

RD: Along a similar line, does real life driver feedback get incorporated into the sim, and if so how useful has that been in developing the physics and feel of the game?

TW: Driver feedback is really only used on a final pass for any content we produce in-house. Our physics engine allows us to input real values and get real results from that, so provided our data is good, the cars should always feel pretty accurate before anyone drives it.

RD: What do you consider to be your greatest / most proud achievement so far in the life rFactor 1 and rFactor 2 and why?

TW: We broke new ground on a lot of features that once implemented by other engines and studios will move sim racing forward as a whole; RealRoad rubber build-up being probably the most useful for the genre.

Plus, even though we are an extremely small team, we are proud to continue to support our products and the community around them for many years. Too many products seem to be abandoned if they do not achieve a huge critical following, and that’s not our philosophy.

rfactor 2 Classics.png


RD: The (fairly) recent inclusion of a triple screen tool in game has been a dramatic improvement to the immersion level for 3 screen users of the title, do you plan to create a more ‘user friendly’ version of this imbedded in the main game UI?

TW: If and/or when we have time. The implementation and function is obviously more important to us.

RD: Talking of the visual side of things, many people were disappointed to see the Consumer Unit Oculus Rift not supporting DX9 games (such as rF & rF2). Is this a concern to you as VR seems to possibly be the future for sim racing, and more to the point do you anticipate rF2 moving away from DX9 going forwards? Additionally I hear rumours of dropping Windows 8 support, does that mean DX 12?

TW: I think Microsoft have already dropped Windows 8 support (last month, I believe), as they’re trying to push everyone to Windows 10. The VR APIs have frankly been way too fluid for us to seriously look at, and I doubt we’ll look again at native support until after devices are in the hands of the public for a few months. Their changes in specification have obviously left things behind that we rely upon at this time.

RD: Sorry, I've got to push you on this one... could you share with us some indication of timeframe when users could realistically expect to see the move from DX9?

TW: Not able to give a timeline, or even a confirmation we’ll see that in rFactor 2 – and obviously this affects the VR answer previously. It also could be argued that modders now have a stable platform to create for, it might not be beneficial to mess with them.

RD: Still with Virtual Reality, now that users can fully view and engage with their surroundings using VR headsets, will more details and higher resolution gauges and cockpits for ISI content vehicles make an appearance in future builds do you think?

TW: We update older cars as best we can, but aren’t going to devote much time to extremely old content for minimal returns. Most newer cars shouldn’t need much of an update in this area.

RD: rFactor 2 is the platform of choice for many major leagues around the globe, specifically using the endurance features within the game and making the most of real weather / day to night transition functionality. With regards to how weather is implemented in game, does the team at ISI have plans to implement things such as rain drops on windshields (physics based rendering) / aquaplaning / puddle formation etc?

TW: We’re actually looking at this again now. We haven’t decided on what features will get dropped or pushed, and which should be implemented in short order.

RD: On a similar topic, in dry conditions can we expect to see some kind of dirt/marble pick up on tires?

TW: We’re unlikely to implement that in rFactor 2, you’ll just have to deal with the existing drop in grip on those surfaces.

RD: Keeping to the theme of endurance racing and features for a moment if I may, have the team considered the possibility to limit the set of tires available for a race weekend (endurance this is a big thing as well as F1 and many other series) and the possibility of saving part worn tyres in the garage for use in further sessions / later race stints?

TW: No, but I think we now output the tire data in the replay and plugins to allow leagues to easily track tire usage. While we can now store tire data (resume from replay does), we don’t foresee allowing them to be saved and reused within existing sessions.

RD: Again another endurance type question (although relevant, sadly, for Formula One too) – Hybrid/KERS/Brake Recovery simulation in game. Yes this is a murky and challenging area to simulate I would imagine but could add a lot to the immersion aspect of several major racing series. Does ISI plan to have this in game in future builds and if so how far along the path of develop are you at present?

TW: We’re in talks for a 2016 GP car as I speak, so we need to look at this at some point, probably when we build an updated FISI and/or GP car.

RD: Staying with the theme of cars and car features, could we maybe expect to see the ability to adjust onboard TC steps as onboard engine mapping or onboard differential Settings in future builds? The current TC settings are more a driver aid than in car setting and can sometimes feel a bit obtrusive when driving at the limit.

TW: Probably not. It’ll most likely continue to work as it does now.

RD: Moving away from this topic now for a little while and getting on to in game content for a bit, ISI have released a number of US centric Oval content of late, how big of a change in thinking was that to get it into the sim and working correctly with all the nuances involved in oval racing physics and rulesets?

TW: We’re still working on the rules, they’re incredibly complex from a design standpoint. The sheer number of variables for what appears a simple rule is just mind blowing.

RD: Are you happy with how it’s gone, the fan reaction seems very positive so far and the steady stream of 3PA oval / roval tracks has been very impressive

TW: Would like to see more of the rF1 stock car leagues moving over sometime soon. If leagues want to work with us to arrange bulk purchase deals, they should contact us.

RD: Speaking of tracks, its been a long while since the last “major” official track release, can you share with us some highlights of what tracks fans might expect to see in the coming year?

TW: Our track team spend their time helping the 3PA guys and working on their own projects. I think ISITrackTeam on Twitter does a petty good job of teasing upcoming content, whether that is their “rising sun” updates, or Toban (which is probably next).

rFactor 2 Suzuka.png


RD: Same question , this time related to upcoming car content. We heard many months ago about a proposed Super GT car and more recently the Daytona Prototype, how are things progressing with these?

TW: As always with cars it seems, we’re waiting on data. Teams have two seasons: Winter vacation and racing season. We have quite a few cars at a similar state, so once data starts to come in we’ll have a good batch of releases (including those you mention).

RD: Does the team have any inclination to include further historic content, possibly a playmate to the sublime BT20 Grand Prix car in future?

TW: We have some licensed, but they’ve simply never made it to the top of the stack yet. As a historics fan, this pains me greatly! We’d welcome inquiries from mod groups interested in working on licensed content.

RD: Of course many old historic cars use the classic h pattern gearbox and heal and toe technique, how does the team intend to penalise those who use paddle shift and no clutch to prevent laptime advantage against drivers using an h pattern configuration?

TW: We still have plans to release an updated drivetrain model.

RD: The Third Party Affiliate Scheme (3PA) seems like it’s been a huge success for ISI since its inception, how does this work? Do you approach people or do they have to apply to ISI with a finished product?

TW: Either way. Usually we have a track model we are offered by a studio using our engine, we then find someone to work on bringing that track up to spec. In a few cases people have come to us with near completed content of varying quality and we’ve helped them to complete it.

rFactor 2 Suzuka 2.png


RD: Will ISI be looking into the possibility for enhanced rF2 support to run more than 40 cars on the grid during an online event? Of course that has been seen already but in practice it has shown that running more than 40 cars online regularly leads to issues such as stuttering/connection loss and other critical issues?

TW: Nothing stopping you from running more than 40 cars. If you have issues I’d look into how plugins being used cope with the data, or how the server load is.

RD: Also on the topic of multiplayer / player to player interaction could we have a little insight into the developer’s thoughts about a robust player ranking system similar to the system we see in titles like iRacing?

TW: You won’t see a feature like that from us, but we obviously would and have supported any organization wishing to develop their own version. Our plugin system can be used for many features like this that instead of charging a subscription for, we want to see people able to do for themselves – if they want.

I think you’ll see a public launch of a few sites over the next few months.

RD: Regarding match maker, is this side of the sim due for further support and polish and could be expect more features in the theme of things like Chat, Iobby, filters, and a working matchmaker Iist where you can see how many people are online including Steam and non Steam clients?

TW: Yes, we’ve been looking at this lately (within the past two weeks).

RD: The damage model in rF2 is more restrained than some other titles at present, would it be possible, and is it considered on the teams to do list, to add features around suspension damage i.e when riding curbs / going off road in a violent way cause noticeable damage to your cars suspension and do plans exist to create a more sophisticated damage model in general?

TW: It might be something we look at in the future, but not sure what will/won’t be seen in rFactor 2.

RD: rFactor 2 has been in development for a number of years now and continues to be improved and developed with each new build released by the team. Do you at ISI have a development timeframe for this title, basically how much longer do you expect to support rFactor 2 before retiring development and looking to move onto rFactor 3 and/or other projects?

TW: Internal planning and discussion on another title (not rF3) has taken place, but rF2 is still our focus product at this time.

RD: If money and other blockers were no issue, which Marques would you ideally like to see licensed in the sim?

TW: All those tracks who are used to being paid by Sony and Microsoft for console titles, unable to comprehend what a niche sim racing title even is, and why their budgets differ. Though I’d focus more on racing cars than road cars, the same applies.

RD: Rumour has it that the exclusive Porsche licence comes up for renewal soon, any chance of seeing some of the German sports and racing cars in future for rF2?

TW: Not if they sit themselves behind an agency who’re more interested in their fees than promoting the brand they’re licensing.

RD: Almost finished now… so do you guys want to tell us anything else that we haven’t already covered so far in this interview? This is a chance to speak directly to our many thousands of readers here at RaceDepartment.com who follow with interest the development of rFactor.

TW: I guess the biggest recent event is Steam, and we are pretty happy with how well the transition to Steam has gone. We encourage people to look into the Workshop as we continue to find new ways to make it a bigger part of rF2!

RD: Now comes that time where I ask you to think up an imaginative way to say no without hurting my feelings….. An unapologetic attempt to secure a RaceDepartment exclusive piece of news! Anything you want to share with our many readers that aren’t already widely known in the sim community?

TW: We are looking into possibility of paid mods as part of rF2. I’ve mentioned this a few times but it’s getting serious now. There’s no reason someone shouldn’t be able to give the community what it wants when developers aren’t able to.



Big thanks go out to Tim at Image Space Incorporated for kindly taking time out of a busy schedule and answering our questions here today. Visit the rFactor 2 section of RaceDepartment for all the latest news regarding this sim.

rFactor 2 is available to buy now on the Steam platform or as a standalone edition direct from the ISI website.

Enjoyed our interview? What do you think of rFactor 2? How does the game perform in your opinion? Let us know in the comments section below!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree with this 100%. I believe this is why so many people love Pcars or AC. I think they literally can't feel much, if any, difference in the physics. I think many can't really tell the difference between proper loading and unloading of suspension and proper weight transfer. They feel resistance in the wheel when turning and that's about as far as many people's understanding of physics goes and after that, it's all about the eye candy.
I love how the primary line of defense is the retarded notion that people dislike rf2 because they can't fully appreciate the physics. :roflmao: Most common criticism of rf2 in this thread, i.e. the fact that after 5 years it still suffers from problems I would expect in a BETA (and by dictionary definition should still be in ALPHA) isn't even addressed.

Id love to hear all about the "missing features" so many seem to talk about in this very painful to read thread,considering rf2 is the most feature rich sim out there
Clearly, you haven't read this thread, otherwise you would be able to see a dozen of legitimate issues that were brought up. But, for the lazy, I will provide things that are missing for me, just a few because I actually really enjoy rf2 even if it's a frustrating piece of software:
1. Ridiculous lack of consistency with rain physcis and transitions of whether. That's even without getting into whether the physics are accurate or not, the way rain affects the track seems completely random.
2. Lack of dirt pick up. AMS has added it pretty much as soon as it was released to the public.
3. Night racing can be great or nearly impossible. Pick one, because there seems to be no middle ground. You either have a great night race or sh*t is breaking and glitching out every 10 seconds.
4. Lack of ability to create a custom championship within a sim. For something that is (supposedly anyway) a modding platform, it's really bizzare that it's missing tools to create a series/championship with presistent cars/drivers and leaderboards displayed after each race. And no, log analyzer is not an answer. It's a workaround that was slapped onto this sim, because ISI didn't bother to add this functionality during last 5 years. Running your old DOS games through an emulator isn't a 'feature', it's a necessary annoyance.
5. Low amount of settings you can change 'on the go'. These are bloody race cars. They allow you to customise a very wide range of parameters while driving, but rf2 doesn't support that beyond the most simplest form e.g. brake bias.
6. Unrealistic traction control and ABS systems. In real life these systems are used to change the way car responds to input, in rf2 these are digital 'helps' designed to make it easier to drive.

So here it is. Those are 6 features that come immidiately of the top of my head. I am sure people who genuinely hate this sim could provide more, personally I enjoy it quite a bit so my own list isn't going to be a mile long. Notice these are just the features therefore I didn't include glacial pace of development and lack of support for DX11, but these are problems I mentioned before.
 
That's my post in ISI forums. Isi 2.5 + more modern graphics, DX12, licensed content + support for modding, VR and everyone would be happy. I would gladly pay for a Race Room style business model (more expensive if needed) if they made that happen if it means more development and people in rF2. And honestly they should have done that already in a partnership with a existing studio (hello Reiza)
I agree with the exception of DX12. I want DX11, because it's essential to improve the performance compared to ancient dx9. I don't want DX12, because there's no f*cking way I am upgrading to Windows 10.
 
I agree with the exception of DX12. I want DX11, because it's essential to improve the performance compared to ancient dx9. I don't want DX12, because there's no f*cking way I am upgrading to Windows 10.
Well if they were going to do this would make no sense to avoid the most recent tech considering there is and there will be even more performance.(from marketing side it is a plus too, works on some people's mind idk why)
I don't get all the hate with Win10. Talk about moving to a "newer gen" video card and everyone is fine even if they are just previous chips with higher clock. Now talk about moving to a new OS and everyone loses their minds :rolleyes:
 
Well if they were going to do this would make no sense to avoid the most recent tech considering there is and there will be even more performance.(from marketing side it is a plus too
It absolutely technological sense to not support dx12, because it requires an operating system that many people choose to avoid or do not have. From a marketing side it may be plus to someone who wants to play Battlefield 25 and doesn't care about anything else other than new graphical features offered by dx12. Simracing, especially as advanced as rf2, will NEVER have a widespread appeal and it's certainly not going to get attention from people who will play literally anything as long as it supports some new technology.

Talk about moving to a "newer gen" video card and everyone is fine even if they are just previous chips with higher clock. Now talk about moving to a new OS and everyone loses their minds :rolleyes:
New graphics card doesn't involve change to policy which affects the privacy and security of my system. Upgrading from GF 780 to GF 980 also doesn't break compatibility with other software you have on your computer.
 
Its all comparative

1. Ridiculous lack of consistency with rain physics and transitions of whether. That's even without getting into whether the physics are accurate or not, the way rain affects the track seems completely random.

"seems random", is that a official measurement you did? got any specifics? its still far better than what anything else others have, by a long shot, Pcars rain is a joke, not even a basic dry line.

2. "Lack of dirt pick up. AMS has added it pretty much as soon as it was released to the public. "

Yeah they added it to old ISI tech, using mods, its a shame to not have this one in rf2, but hardly essential, you know like proper tyre dynamics or accurate working heating\grip\wear etc, ppl seems to get so upset on this small detail yet forgive HUGE glaring issue in the other major sims.

3. Night racing can be great or nearly impossible. Pick one, because there seems to be no middle ground. You either have a great night race or sh*t is breaking and glitching out every 10 seconds.

I have no idea what this means, very vague, what breaks? you make a list and dont bother actually saying the issue, I cant reply to that.

4. Lack of ability to create a custom championship within a sim. For something that is (supposedly anyway) a modding platform, it's really bizarre that it's missing tools to create a

Rubbish, with log analyzer, you can very very easily create fantastic proper custom champs, with more information about races and results then you could possibly use, including very detailed contact data between every car, the only other sim that does custom champ is rre, its good, but Log analyzer blows it outta the water, but yet again like many of rf2 great features, using a browser based solution completely stumps your average gamer, isi isn't looking to cater to "average gamers", that takes time and resource from far better things, just because you choose to write it off for some undisclosed reason doesn't make it any less effective.

5. Low amount of settings you can change 'on the go'. These are bloody race cars. They allow you to customise a very wide range of parameters while driving, but rf2 doesn't support that beyond the most simplest form e.g. brake bias.

Ok now we going into a fantasy land, are you sure your playing RF2 and not mistakenly booted up pcars or ac? RF2 is the most detailed setups you can get, I cant even fathom how you came up with this one, do you even sim brah?
Edit: ok just re read, essentially the same as number 6, yes you cant adjust boost or tc in car, its a shame and a feature that would be welcome.

6. Unrealistic traction control and ABS systems. In real life these systems are used to change the way car responds to input, in rf2 these are digital 'helps' designed to make it easier to drive.

The only thing is you cant do is adjust TC (real TC not the AID) in car like you can in SOME real cars, just like your number 5 im having extreme doubts youve even used rf2, you can adjust the car TC if it has it in setup screen, you can also modify the diff (if adjustable in real car) with the must options available in the sim, adn are far far better to change car behaviour in that respect.

Far keep trying, I can easily triple that list with actual real issues and basic stuff in any of the competition sims, the only issues you came up with is dirt pick up and not being able to adjust boost or TC in car, its a tiny list, and if those are major issues, you must really not like the other sims.
 
Last edited:
It absolutely technological sense to not support dx12, because it requires an operating system that many people choose to avoid or do not have. From a marketing side it may be plus to someone who wants to play Battlefield 25 and doesn't care about anything else other than new graphical features offered by dx12. Simracing, especially as advanced as rf2, will NEVER have a widespread appeal and it's certainly not going to get attention from people who will play literally anything as long as it supports some new technology.


New graphics card doesn't involve change to policy which affects the privacy and security of my system. Upgrading from GF 780 to GF 980 also doesn't break compatibility with other software you have on your computer.
Many people choose for now it's just temporary, they'll be Win10 sooner or later especially for games when more of them move on, it was the same thing with WinXP. We all watched that movie already.
There are compatibility modes available anyway. And meh privacy... people cry too much about this... it gets annoying after a while...
 
I think people are seriously confused when the first reaction to any criticism in "well such and such sim sucks worse"

To stop this schoolyard nonsense, I will point out that I have zero interest in the other current sims other than AMS which is now my new sim home. But that had nothing to do with rF2 because rF2 is in the state it is in regardless of what state other sims are in. How did the sim racing community become so fanboyish that a sim cannot be discussed independently. Does ISI have to pay taxes to Kunos or something? It's ridiculous.

Having said that, I do indeed believe that the timing of ISI's throwing in the towel was as poor as you can get coming right off of Reiza's thunder which no one would want to follow.

But that doesn't change whether rF2 is done or not. Someone please explain how other sims not working means that rF2 works :O_o:
 
"seems random", is that a official measurement you did? got any specifics?
Fine, how is it that when I set Silverstone to rain it has 'x' amount of rain and water in corner 1. A week later, I am driving around silverstone with exact same settings, yet that same corner appears to react differently to the weather.
its still far better than what anything else others have
Except simracers don't go around saying that those 'other' sims supposedly have the best physcis and feature set within simracing overal. Besides, whether it is better than rain in GTR2 or worse, rain in rf2 is practically useless. Saying 'hey we have rain physics that are almost usable' doesn't change the fact that it's far from realistic.
Pcars rain is a joke, not even a basic dry line.
And I could compare Arma III to Call of Duty, but that would be an indicator that I don't know how to counter somebody's argument and I have to stack the cards in my favour. PCars is barely even a sim and it certainly doesn't target the same audience as rf2 or iRacing.
ppl seems to get so upset on this small detail yet forgive HUGE glaring issue in the other major sims
Why are you bringing up other sims as if that somehow defeats other person's argument?


You asked for the features that peope are missing. When I give you the list of things I think should have been implemented 2 years ago, you instead come up with the reasons why you DON'T have to address the argument. Also, have you considered that the people who complain about lack of dirt pick up (i.e. hardcore simracers like me) are NOT the ones who seemingly accept every bullsh*t that comes from PCars physics?

I have no idea what this means, very vague, what breaks? you make a list and dont bother actually saying the issue, I cant reply to that.
Since I used the word 'glitch' it's fairly obvious that I am talking about bugs and graphical problems that are present during night races. Flickering shadows, missing lights, reflection that you get on the front window when you have lights behind you (cool effect, but why the hell does it exist in a car with no backside windshield?

Edit: ok just re read, essentially the same as number 6, yes you cant adjust boost or tc in car, its a shame and a feature that would be welcome.
No, it has nothing to do with 6. Yes, you can adjust boost and tc while driving. VERY basic stuff. I can't even remember the amount of in-car setting that iRacing allows you to change on the fly in something like their new F1 car.

The only thing is you cant do is adjust TC (real TC not the AID) in car like you can in SOME real cars, just like your number 5 im having extreme doubts youve even used rf2, you can adjust the car TC if it has it in setup screen, you can also modify the diff (if adjustable in real car) with the must options available in the sim, adn are far far better to change car behaviour in that respect.
You are, again, trying to come up with reasons why you don't have to address my points instead of debunking them.
And then you have the audacity to imply that people are wearing rose-coloured glasses when they look at other sims.

I can easily triple that list with actual real issues and basic stuff in any of the competition sims
Yes, we all know that in a thread about the development and future of rfactor 2 you feel a strange urge to bring up other sims, many of which are on the market for a fraction of the time rfactor 2 was available for purchase. Personally, I try to comment on the development (or relative lack thereof) of this particular sim. I don't feel the need to constantly seek validation of comparing the physics from an actual sim to something like a mainstream driving game, like PCars. Likewise, if I wanted to criticise the graphics in rf2, I wouldn't compare it to PCars, because I don't see the point of bringing up software I don't even plan on using.
 
Last edited:
2. "Lack of dirt pick up. AMS has added it pretty much as soon as it was released to the public. "

Yeah they added it to old ISI tech, using mods, its a shame to not have this one in rf2, but hardly essential, you know like proper tyre dynamics or accurate working heating\grip\wear etc, ppl seems to get so upset on this small detail yet forgive HUGE glaring issue in the other major sims.
How do you know rF2 has proper and accurate tyre dynamics with working heating\grip\wear and AMS doesn't?

For purposes of my posts, finished = no further development = sim is stable = modders won't have scrap / rework.
Totally agreed. Finished and complete sims and games in general are boring and not many people play them any more.
Although the term 'complete' can be double edged, depending on the perspective. You can already have a very good game that suits most needs, so yes, we could call it complete. But why stop there? Even a 'complete' game can still have active devs that change things, add others, improve some. Because the word complete is not synonym with perfect or appealing. Some games on itself don't have enough reason/gameplay to be played on no end, so sims in this regard are infinite. But the appeal towards them isn't infinite, that's why I say that finished and completed sims (different than complete) are boring and serve little purpose.
 
There are compatibility modes available anyway. And meh privacy... people cry too much about this... it gets annoying after a while...

There won't be any compatibility modes for win10 :D. The whole thing ms is trying to do is to force people to move to win10. Ms is going everything it can to make sure that there is no compatibility mods for win10 games. They are even buying game studios so they get their exclusive titles for win10...

Maybe you feel so unimportant and meaningless that privacy is not important for you but for some of us it is.

And there are tons of good reasons to not move to win10. Privacy is an obvious issue but so is the microsoft policies. Ms is basically one huge bully and the windows store is nothing less but an overall downgrade in every possible way. Only draw for gamers is dx12 but I hope the alternatives win.

What is annoying is people who think closing their eyes will make problems go away.
 
"Yes, we all know that in a thread about the development and future of rfactor 2 you feel a strange urge to bring up other sims"

Because ppl have constantly commented about writing rf2 off because of some kind of perceived lack of features, Id like to think im a logical person, with a attitude like theirs, logic would dictate they dont play any sim, as again they barely have a fraction of the features rf2 has, the model T is a terrible car, but in context and compared to what else was on offer it was great, its stupid I have to even explain this, when ppl berate a game and say X title has to few features, yet when x game has the most features out of all the comp, its more a comment of the state of all games then.

Maybe if some of you die hard fans of certain other devs held them to the standard you are trying to hold ISI at, rfactor 2 might have some decent competition, which I would love, as competition pushes development further, but the state of the others, if I was ISI, Id just sit on my arse for 2-3 years, going of other devs work rate thats when they MAY catch up.

I also find the fact AMS (insert any ISI based game here) is somehow lorded over rf2, rf2 is the next iteration of that fantastic engine,that allows ppl like SMS, Sector3 and reiza to build the great content these titles have, because ISI did the most complex work for them, and no doubt be the same crap all over again once the first 2.5IsImotor based sims are released, ppl with little to no understanding of engines and how they work will again claim X dev did so much better job then ISI, without realising they are playing a ISI built sim, with content and modifications from X dev I.E AMS RRE Pcars.

"How do you know rF2 has proper and accurate tyre dynamics with working heating\grip\wear and AMS doesn't? "

AMS does, much the same rf1 worked, surprised?its Pcars and AC where thats a major issue, AMS is a great sim, but suffers from the same kind of (Hash EDIT:no need to call names) criticisms that rf2 suffers from, i would throw a lot of money at reiza to dev that dirt driving aspect more, but again no ISI no AMS.
 
"How do you know rF2 has proper and accurate tyre dynamics with working heating\grip\wear and AMS doesn't? "

AMS does, much the same rf1 worked, surprised?its Pcars and AC where thats a major issue, AMS is a great sim, but suffers from the same kind of (Hash EDIT:no need to call names) criticisms that rf2 suffers from, i would throw a lot of money at reiza to dev that dirt driving aspect more, but again no ISI no AMS.
Of course there are issues, but you are being too much "captain obvious" here when talking about AC. Because since 1.3 and continuing 1.4, the tyres are work in progress (incomplete), because the devs started doing different things to them, tyre properties and heating model, which possibly are in a state where older game versions had more consistent cars.
But now for 1.5 either this or next month, they've had more time since December to finalize this work they started in 1.3.
 
Id like to think im a logical person,
when ppl berate a game and say X title has to few features, yet when x game has the most features
There is in fact a very understandable and logical explanation that you missed. Maybe, just maybe, rfactor 2 is lacking the features people want even if, mathematically, it has more features overal?

I'm in simracing, because I like driving. I like rf2 physics. I like competing with people online. I like participating in RD leagues. Here's the thing though. After half a year I focused on rf2, it became very clear that modding is piss poor compared to rf1 and with the non-existent work pace of ISI there's nothing new for me to actually drive. There's barely any community online. RD doesn't actually have a league for rf2 and races once a week, if the assuming people have the motivation to sign up, which they didn't last friday, despite GT3 event at Sebring. So I have this awesome sim, that has great physics except I can't do in it almost anything that I enjoy. What do you suggest that I do? Fap to the physics engine? Or maybe I should put a tinfoil hat and start fighting major disinformation* on several different forums, because - supposedly - I love this sim so much, but I don't f*cking race and instead keep talking how amazing it is.

*(doesn't that sound like some kind of jewish conspiracy in simracing?)

Maybe if some of you die hard fans of certain other devs held them to the standard you are trying to hold ISI
I do hold them to the same standard. And guess what? When Reiza says they're working on a car, they actually are working on a car. When I came back to rf2 in October last year, ISI just released MillsMetro. Alongside, they released new screenshots of Super GT. I got excited. Now it's the end of March. In this interview I found out that guys at ISI don't even know when that car is coming... Reiza never did something half this stupid.

What about their business model then? rfactor 2 is the only sim dev that charges for online access to a sim that has dead public servers. In fact, you have to pay up even if you don't use the public servers at all; you want to play on your friend's server? Tough sh*t, you pay ISI fun tax anyway. Believe me, if other sim developers did something equally unfair and anti-consumer I would be screaming from the roof tops. But all of them, Reiza, Kunos and Simbin, have not sank that low despite rf2 fanboys going around telling everyone that modern simulations are evil 'coz DLC'.
EDIT: Honestly, it's fairly obvious that rfactor 2 has a very small, but passionate and devaut community. I fully understand that passion, because I gave a genuine shot at rf2 on a number of occasions. However, due to stubborn attitude of the developers, I can't see the situation changing for better any time soon. Those people keep saying that others are 'missing the point' of this sim or what a modding platform should look like. That may be true, but it's also very clear that the developers as well as the most devaut fans of this sim flat out do not understand people's frustration. So to end my contribution to this thread I will simply post a short clip that explains my feelings towards this sim and ISI's work over the last few months:


EDIT 2: apologies for harsh language and grammar. It's late and I've been repeating the same arguments for more than 10 pages yet some people imply that I don't like rf2, because I just don't understand it the way they do. Clearly, I am not a member of the enlihtened.
 
Last edited:
So I have this awesome sim, that has great physics except I can't do in it almost anything that I enjoy. What do you suggest that I do? Fap to the physics engine? Or maybe I should put a tinfoil hat and start fighting major disinformation* on several different forums, because - supposedly - I love this sim so much, but I don't f*cking race and instead keep talking how amazing it is.
I absolutely agree. That is the ultimate defeat of people who keep listing what their sim of choice has and say what does better than other sims, and talk bad about other sims. Do you think you win customers that way? A resounding no.

Not even themselves are part of racing in their sim of choice, but are fighting a battle of useless statistics. Why are they useless? Because they don't put people on the race track.

I'd rather take an arcade racing sim that has 5 features but puts 1000 people on the race track, than a real racing sim where people feel more proud about the features they have than using them. Of course they use them, but they use them on a forum thread. :rolleyes:
 
A real race driver will expect drivetrain modelling to simulate sequential gearshift mechanisms,
electronic features as downshift protection. Gears/ gearbox/ clutch leading to failure if consistently misused or abused. Turbo modelling, boost / push-to-pass and energy recovery systems. Realistic TC and AB. He will also expect the wet racing line to reward you but it doesn't, which makes wet weather racing in rF2 useless.
This is just a "tip of iceberg":roflmao: which makes rFactor2 useless as racing simulator. :thumbsdown:
 
Last edited:
It seems like people are a bit narrow-minded when speaking which are these essential sim features. People keep moaning some decade old features from other developers but can't see the features missing from the platform they're using the most. Every developer has their own priorities but since ISI managed to sold their engine for several different manufacturers their "thruth" has been the loudest thruth (well diserved too). There wasn't much competition.

Just to give some example you see moaning why sim x doesn't have on-the-fly-adjustable ARB's even it has been ISI feature since ancient times. Now you don't have adjustable differential maps, engine maps, ABS programs, TC programs in a sim which may have the most advanced environment simulation and therefore would benefit the most. You can start thinking which ones of these are the most important for real life racing.

Now there's basically 3 different engines which all are offering very different experience. Still with every platform you have to drive pretty much identically if you want to go fast. There is no ultimate thruth. In the end it's the product built around the engine that matters and this aspect is the one where we see most differences.
 

Latest News

What is the reason for your passion for sim racing?

  • Watching real motorsport

    Votes: 482 69.5%
  • Physics and mechanics

    Votes: 294 42.4%
  • Competition and adrenaline

    Votes: 318 45.8%
  • Practice for real racing

    Votes: 147 21.2%
  • Community and simracers

    Votes: 190 27.4%
Back
Top