Is system stability achievable?

[markie44]

I'm still in the process of building my sim, and expect teething troubles.

It seems a very delicate balancing act as you start to add in different components and software. I like a clean system, so once everything is working with a good level of stability, I plan to do a reinstall with just the software that's functioning properly.

For work, I would normally get to that point and disable all auto software updates - often disconnecting from the internet completely. Then I'd make an image of the system (using Acronis) and restore it if anything went pear shaped as its more efficient than troubleshooting.

SIM building is proving very difficult to get to that special place! It seems system is stable in isolation, but does not play nice together.

Is this the norm? Is everyone out there constantly spinning plates and making micro adjustments to deal with the fragility - or is it possible to create a rock solid system?

FYI I'm currently running VR (HP G2) FFB (SC2), Motion (PT / SRS), Wind (SRS) and will be shortly adding a shaker (SRS). I accept the more elements in the system, the greater the challenge, and I do enjoy the challenge. It sure is great when its working

 

[NeoGrotesk]

Yeah, I often struggle with this. If I don't race for a while I can guarantee then when I try I'll have to spend half an hour working out why some bit of software or hardware isn't working properly...

 

[Terry Rock]

System stability is very achievable if you keep it simple.
I can't tell you the last time I saw a BSOD and I am on the Microsoft WIP dev channel.
I use various testing variants...currently on Win 2004 (build. 21296.1000)
I never overclock GPUs...don't really see the need, with the current level of hardware.
The factory boost on both Intel and AMD CPUs do a great job of ramping up clocks to within a few percentage points of a manually O/C system.
Keeping things cool is key to better stability and more consistent operation.
Pushing for every last frame by introducing massive voltages and heat, is like the guy with exposed cone-style air-cleaner under a 'hot' hood.
Sure!... he's got better airflow initially when things are cold and the power can't really be used.
As things warm up, that flow has less molecules because it is not as dense...so loss of performance over the normal operating range.
As to software...keep it light.
Instead of ten media players, use one that does everything...ala VLC.
Keep the motherboard BIOS updated to take advantage of fixes.
Do windows updates after others have had them for a while. You'll be able to see if any common issues arise.
Using a group policy to govern updates and restarts helps here.

 

[RobertR1]

Yes but it requires a bit of research, tuning and effort.

First thing to minimize complexity. The most components you have, the higher your chances are of incompatibility.

I run a very limited setup.
1 x KB
1 x mouse
1 x OSW/SC1 base
1 x Simracing Coach GT1 wheel
1 x Reverb G2
1 x Acer x34p UW monitor
1 x HPP Pedals
1 x headphones (headphone jack)

All in all, I have 7 x usb ports in use and 2 display ports.

I only play AC. My procedure is to turn on the wheelbase, bring up Content Manage, launch the game and put on the VR headset. That's it. When done driving, I turn off the wheelbase and close out the Windows Mixed Reality app and it's all back to normal.

My system is fully overclocked for cpu/mem/gpu. Each component was stress tested individually and then together with various programs and many hours. For me, it was completely worth it as I picked up 20%+ additional performance.

When I see a lot of issues it's often to do with lot of components on budget equipment. Too often, you see people buying high end cpu's and then cheapening out on the motherboard. Where do you think that cost difference is? it's in the quality of the components used which directly impacts your stability in a complex setup. Simracing is a complex setup even with the minimum components!

The other issue, yeah it's great to have all the immersion in the world but at what cost? How many usb ports, apps running in parallel and widgets do you need to work together in perfect harmony to turn a lap? A lot of these are DIY projects or very niche players. How much cross component QC testing is reasonable for them to undertake?

I'm not saying that I never have an issue BUT because I know my system is fully stable, it's much easier for me to pinpoint the issue and revert the change rather than resort to re installing the OS and so on. Most of the issues I've encounter are my own doing.

So my take would be
1. Don't cheap out on critical components like the motherboard, power supply
2. Don't make the environment more complicated than it needs to be
3. Learn your ways around the PC ecosystem so you're better equipped to do root cause analysis than getting frustrated

 

[blekenbleu]

Practically, if you can disconnect your sim PC from the Internet after obtaining stable function,
then it should remain stable.
If, however, it remains connected to the Internet e.g. for Steam,
then it also needs antimalware maintenance,
unless you configure a firewall to allow ONLY that Steam traffic.
Since antimalware involves Windows and e.g. Nvidia "updates",
then configurations become inherently unstable,
since those changes introduce bugs and backwards incompatibilities.

 

[markie44]

This is all good stuff - and encouraging to noobs like me.

Keep it coming

 

[Turk]

I must be lucky with PCs or just have much lower standards than everybody else. I install the stuff and use it, I don't spend a lot of time tinkering with stuff, I'm not really into squeezing every last drop of performance out of my hardware (it's not worth it for a frame or two), I'm happy to work with a bit of overhead left in performance.

 

[blekenbleu]

I must be lucky with PCs

I had better "luck" with stability when just using G29 with existing monitors.
Not dedicating a PC for sim is an invitation for trouble with Windows.

 

[Turk]

I had better "luck" with stability when just using G29 with existing monitors.
Not dedicating a PC for sim is an invitation for trouble with Windows.

I don't know, I take my sim rig out every so often (not as often as I like), the rest of the time the PC is doing office work, photoshop, Davinci resolve and other gaming. My rig is all Fanatec stuff. Setting up the oculus rift was annoying because of the cameras, it's much easier now with the G2.

I did have USB3 issues with the rift. If I didn't use the headset it seemed to drop one of the ports down to USB2, but it never happened while I was using the headset.

I could do a much better job of keeping windows clean, I have the feeling it's very bloated but it's not causing me any hardship at the moment so I don't bother.

 

[blekenbleu]

My rig is all Fanatec stuff.

Bingo! Migrating from Logitech to SimXperience was fraught..

I did have USB3 issues with the rift.

My guess is that you may cultivate a glass-half-full perspective.
I tend to focus on holes to the extent of ignoring any donuts,
but going between VR and screens with prescription lenses to sort issues has been tiresome.

 

[Durge Driven]

1. What Terry said, KISS

2. Anything windows and software want you to do say no

3. Way you get to really know your system is lots of OS and software installs

4. You be amazed the amount of stuff you don't need to reinstall simply by keeping a merged registry 1 click

5. Refrain from updates so if WACUP ( Winamp) and VLC are working don't touch them etc etc

 

[Shovas]

I've had my fair share of unstable systems but rock solid stability definitely is possible.

My last instability spanned years. It was a 980 ti with a power issue that would reset my computer at random (sometimes only hours and hours after powering on and using). I didn't know it was the 980 ti until it finally died. I replaced it with a 1080 and I've had flawless stability. Funny thing, that 980 ti crashed on DirectX 9 but was okay with 8 in certain older games (not an issue with the 1080). Weird stuff like that threw me off forever.

Stability is possible but you have to narrow down the cause one by one and that's a frustrating process.

Use cpu/gpu/memory/disk stress testers to rule out the major contributors.

Buy quality parts, too. I went cheap with an SSD (Adata) and regretted it for stability and performance, so I stuck with the big names like Corsair or Samsung, etc.

 

[R8pilot]

I'm new to sim racing, and have had to solve many problems to get things up and running.

My hardware is very stable except for two annoying cases: One particular game (non-sim) and, more importantly, anything in VR. Both of these seem to stress the system more than even the usual benchmarks / stress-tests.

I strongly suspect it's my graphics card that's the weak link. I've tried under-clocking it, lowering the max power ceiling and bumping the voltage up slightly, and sometimes it seems to help, but never for long.

It's very frustrating, as I would like to get through Alyx (so atmospheric!) and explore sim racing in VR without crashes every 5-10 minutes.

 

[maelstrom]

I've had my system for several years now and it really has been very stable (and still surprisingly capable). Contrary to normal advice, I allow all Windows security updates but automatically block driver updates unless they provide features or fixes I need. I've yet to have an issue with major Windows feature updates. The secret to system stability seems to be "don't skimp on the components" - do your research and always get quality, well-known brands. If you want stability, you have to be prepared to pay for it! The PSU, in particular, should be the best you can afford with some headroom over your predicted maximum load. Don't go for anything less than Gold certified - anything above that is obviously better but you're into the law of diminishing returns as far as cost vs performance goes. Unless you're trying to fit your system in a small space, go for a tower case. Bigger is easier to work in and they generally have better airflow - overheating is one of the biggest threats to stability.

I would say try to avoid tweaking hardware settings if you want stability. In most cases, the extra few FPS you might get from overclocking is rarely worth the hassle of trying to balance out the effect changing one setting often has on the rest of the system.

 

[dud]

VR headset software is very intrusive and definitely not helping here.

 

[markie44]

I think this is where most of my own problems lie. That and irritating USB conflicts.

For me however, using VR is non-negotiable.

I've tried triples, but at the end of the day, unless they are 65" and completely filling my field of view - I know I'm in a room looking at screens - whereas with the VR, you can fool yourself into thinking you are really there. Almost.

With hindsight, I should probably have made the post title "Is system stability achievable - WITH VR?"

 

[Case_]

The title of this thread genuinely confused me. I always considered system stability to be the norm. If you're struggling with system stability, there's something wrong with your system.

 

[R8pilot]

I managed to fix the instability I was experiencing with my graphics card. But I have a related question:

If I disconnect a Windows-based PC running Steam from the internet (i.e. to block updates), does all functionality remain available indefinitely, or does something (e.g. Steam) eventually complain enough to interfere with playing games?

 

[Case_]

Why not simply set things up so updates don't bother you when you're playing?

 

[R8pilot]

I mean so they can't mess up anything at all, ever, assuming I like it the way things are.

For example, Windows updates frequently destroy "grub" settings. That's for dual-booting into Linux too (but of course, Microsoft pretends theirs is the only operating system, so why should they care!?).