Is there any reason to not get an OSW right now?

Hey all,

Bit of a dilemma, my g27 is starting to make some strange noises. I want to replace it with a DD wheel, and the plan was always to get an OSW. However I now know that Fanatec are in the process of creating a DD wheel, with a planned release date sometime during the summer.

Now, when reading up on the Fanatec announcements pages, they say that off the shelf motors, such as the Mige motors, are not suitable for direct drive applications, and Fanatecs offering will "successfully eliminate all torque ripple". Is this true, or is this just marketing jargon aimed at putting users off other brands?

If these really are real issues with the current DD range on offer, I may wait to see how much the Fanatec base costs , but if not I may upgrade sooner.

Thanks
Dan
 
What are the options to have paddle shifter fixed to the column (as opposed to turning with the wheel) when you have an OSW setup?

The one thing I find really attractive about Fanatec is their universal hub which has static paddles and lotsa buttons, then you use a real-world car wheel with it.
https://www.fanatec.com/us-en/steer...ring-wheel-universal-hub-for-xbox-one-us.html
Buy a pnp wheel from simracingcoach (starting from about 400€), ascher-racing (about 700€) buy the universal hub (350€ + about 50€ for rebuilding it to work standalone) or build one by yourself. I 3d-printed mine.

And the universal rim does not have static paddles. Those paddles will rotate with the wheel.
 
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  • Cordless: not an issue. also real cars have a cord.
  • Has its own wheel tuning menu: what for?
  • Will have developers and titles supporting it directly: yes, we have seen in the past how perfectly that worked out. How long did it take for GT-Sport to get the CSL-Support? 6 months... That's a pretty damn good relationship between fanatec and game develpers
  • No reason to suspect it should be any less reliable, completely different to past wheels they have made: Oh, I do. Event the pcb's on fantec's pedals and hanbrakes will fail after a year. At least on mine. So I would imagine, the podium will not be much different in quality than what we are used from fanatec.

Personal views here, it may not be what everyone seeks or agrees with but its my own opinons on why I would wait to learn more or discover how good the Fanatec Podium series is before dropping £1000+ on an already available alternative. Err this is what the thread is about yes/no?

Id prefer to have cordless, regardless I see it as a benefit and convenience.
Also expect Fanatec to bring some rather tasty rims.

If tuning can be done on the wheel you don't need to bring up other software, again convenience. This wheel is to offer a new display and possible options to previous Fanatec wheels.

We don't need to go to consoles, have Kunos and others not already stated they would support the new wheel and help the development of it in their titles? Fanatec work with software/developers partners, pure and simple. The point is a user may not need to go into a pile of manual tuning for such sims. So, to some this can be deemed as extra convenience or benefit. How many titles support a Mige wheel or other, direct from the software by its own developers, I ask as I dont know?

Let me ask you, how many people here are seeking to buy a Fanatec DD wheel for GT Sport?

Many people have had issues with Thrustmaster or Logitech as well. Quality control can be an issue. Time will tell but why would it be so hard for the Chinese to copy similar level of hardware that already is in many of the current DD wheels? We have to base each product on its own, pure and simple but as this is a premium level purchase, it uses more industrial level of components. Are some saying/believing that many companies can have items made in China that are rock solid and reliable but its impossible for Fanatec to do the same and come in at a competitive price?
 
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Personal views here, it may not be what everyone seeks or agrees with but its my own opinons on why I would wait to learn more or discover how good the Fanatec Podium series is before dropping £1000+ on an already available alternative. Err this is what the thread is about yes/no?

Id prefer to have cordless, regardless I see it as a benefit and convenience.
Also expect Fanatec to bring some rather tasty rims.

If tuning can be done on the wheel you don't need to bring up other software, again convenience. This wheel is to offer a new display and possible options to previous Fanatec wheels.

We don't need to go to consoles, have Kunos and others not already stated they would support the new wheel and help the development of it in their titles? Fanatec work with software/developers partners, pure and simple. The point is a user may not need to go into a pile of manual tuning for such sims. So, to some this can be deemed as extra convenience or benefit. How many titles support a Mige wheel or other, direct from the software by its own developers, I ask as I dont know?

Let me ask you, how many people here are seeking to buy a Fanatec DD wheel for GT Sport?

Many people have had issues with Thrustmaster or Logitech as well. Quality control can be an issue. Time will tell but why would it be so hard for the Chinese to copy similar level of hardware that already is in many of the current DD wheels? We have to base each product on its own, pure and simple but as this is a premium level purchase, it uses more industrial level of components. Are some saying/believing that many companies can have items made in China that are rock solid and reliable but its impossible for Fanatec to do the same and come in at a competitive price?
I thought having a cord would be an issue for me too when I switched to an Accuforce but it’s really not and a lot of race cars have a cord anyway so in that sense it’s more realistic. The biggest issue in all the cordless varieties is reliability and if it was so easy and much better to do it then it would already have been implemented on high end hardware.

Fanatec haven’t done anything special but what they have done and should be commended for is bridging the gap between your low end logitech gear systems to the high end Bodnar system.

Their podium wheels will be nice but again nothing beyond what is already available, the simsteering ones are incredible as are other custom rims but they also cost as much as the cheaper OSW kits and more in some cases. The Porsche rim started at what €600(?) so dont expect to be getting a podium base and podium level wheel for anything close to £1000.

Tuning on the wheel is definitely useful for older games and console games which don’t properly support automatic DOR per car. That means Automobilsta, rFactor2 (Forza 7 if you want to include that) but all the rest don’t need any on the fly adjustments at all as all the other stuff should be set to 0 anyway and adjusted in-game; plus in VR (which IMO is the future for sim games) none of it is anymore useful.

Both Bodnar and SimXperience send their kit to devs to test with their games, if you read up on R3E you will see they did a lot of work on improving it recently. Bodnars are used in most professional sim rigs and tuned to be realistic, they need the least tuning to get feeling right and much as I like all the tuning options on the Accuforce, if it was just almost perfect out the box like the Bodnar I’d rather that.

The basic force feedback systems all sims are built on are not designed for DD wheels but to work on the lower end stuff (which won’t change anytime soon since DD at current prices will continue to be niche) and are using very primitive systems which is why you get stuff like oscillation issues. Niels (AMS dev) even though he uses a bodnar still sets up the default ini. with 20-30% clipping for low end wheels which completely screws it on DD wheels which necessitates adjusting every car individually to the correct value.

As to build quality it’s more about Fanatec having previous history of needless corner cutting which resulted in near enough all their wheels needing revisions to fix the original corner cutting. All the current DD wheels use motors designed to run 24/7 which Thomas says are overengineered. Sure they may well be but they are proven and don’t break unlike whatever custom motor they will be using not designed for such extreme conditions (though of course it could be fine but history tells us otherwise and where scepticism comes from). Consumer level gear just isn’t anywhere close to as durable as the industrial stuff in any product because it’s built with cost and profits in mind not to do it’s job as well as possible as long as possible.

Just compare enterprise hard drives or even professional monitors to the consumer variants, the kind of backlight bleed and inaccurate colours are simply not acceptable in those markets and that’s why consumer monitors top out around £1500 and professional ones go up to £30k.

Fanatec make great stuff but just be aware of the market difference, they are consumer, Bodnar is professional and OSW is industrial hardware but with community software and that’s where Fanatec and SimXperience will have one up over OSW.

Anyway long story short the more DD wheels out there pushing for better integration the better it is for everyone regardless of what DD wheel they use.
 
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I thought having a cord would be an issue for me too when I switched to an Accuforce but it’s really not and a lot of race cars have a cord anyway so in that sense it’s more realistic. The biggest issue in all the cordless varieties is reliability and if it was so easy and much better to do it then it would already have been implemented on high end hardware.

Fanatec haven’t done anything special but what they have done and should be commended for is bridging the gap between your low end logitech gear systems to the high end Bodnar system.

Their podium wheels will be nice but again nothing beyond what is already available, the simsteering ones are incredible as are other custom rims but they also cost as much as the cheaper OSW kits and more in some cases. The Porsche rim started at what €600(?) so dont expect to be getting a podium base and podium level wheel for anything close to £1000.

Tuning on the wheel is definitely useful for older games and console games which don’t properly support automatic DOR per car. That means Automobilsta, rFactor2 (Forza 7 if you want to include that) but all the rest don’t need any on the fly adjustments at all as all the other stuff should be set to 0 anyway and adjusted in-game; plus in VR (which IMO is the future for sim games) none of it is anymore useful.

Both Bodnar and SimXperience send their kit to devs to test with their games, if you read up on R3E you will see they did a lot of work on improving it recently. Bodnars are used in most professional sim rigs and tuned to be realistic, they need the least tuning to get feeling right and much as I like all the tuning options on the Accuforce, if it was just almost perfect out the box like the Bodnar I’d rather that.

The basic force feedback systems all sims are built on are not designed for DD wheels but to work on the lower end stuff (which won’t change anytime soon since DD at current prices will continue to be niche) and are using very primitive systems which is why you get stuff like oscillation issues. Niels (AMS dev) even though he uses a bodnar still sets up the default ini. with 20-30% clipping for low end wheels which completely screws it on DD wheels which necessitates adjusting every car individually to the correct value.

As to build quality it’s more about Fanatec having previous history of needless corner cutting which resulted in near enough all their wheels needing revisions to fix the original corner cutting. All the current DD wheels use motors designed to run 24/7 which Thomas says are overengineered. Sure they may well be but they are proven and don’t break unlike whatever custom motor they will be using not designed for such extreme conditions (though of course it could be fine but history tells us otherwise and where scepticism comes from). Consumer level gear just isn’t anywhere close to as durable as the industrial stuff in any product because it’s built with cost and profits in mind not to do it’s job as well as possible as long as possible.

Just compare enterprise hard drives or even professional monitors to the consumer variants, the kind of backlight bleed and inaccurate colours are simply not acceptable in those markets and that’s why consumer monitors top out around £1500 and professional ones go up to £30k.

Fanatec make great stuff but just be aware of the market difference, they are consumer, Bodnar is professional and OSW is industrial hardware but with community software and that’s where Fanatec and SimXperience will have one up over OSW.

Anyway long story short the more DD wheels out there pushing for better integration the better it is for everyone regardless of what DD wheel they use.

Good points raised and informative, thanks.
I still personally even though Im not in the market for a wheel yet (other stuff to buy first) won't rule out the Podium offerings. More about them needs to be confirmed including the price to determine how they rate in spec/potential/value. I think with all they have done in the racing community as a brand and even Thomas's online presence, they deserve at least the chance to show their hand and to see how they compete with the SimX wheel or others before writing them off.

Its maybe easier for someone seeking a wheel now or in the next month or so, as indeed many of the current options, people are pleased with.
 
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Good points raised and informative, thanks.
I still personally even though Im not in the market for a wheel yet (other stuff to buy first) won't rule out the Podium offerings. More about them needs to be confirmed including the price to determine how they rate in spec/potential/value. I think with all they have done in the racing community as a brand and even Thomas's online presence, they deserve at least the chance to show their hand and to see how they compete with the SimX wheel or others before writing them off.

Its maybe easier for someone seeking a wheel now or in the next month or so, as indeed many of the current options, people are pleased with.
I certainly would have waited if they had given more details last year but the Accuforce popped up in the Black Friday sales and I wasn’t about to wait another year for the next one with literally nothing to go off.

That on top of the issues I had with parts on the Fanatec gear failing because of poor material choices like the soft aluminium wheel locking bolt jamming in the quick release so I couldn’t get the rim off was the final push.

Honestly all the other higher end stuff I’ve got since, Heusinkveld pedals, Accuforce, custom full carbon fibre F1 rim are all of significantly higher quality (bar maybe the Accuforce button box) than anything Fanatec currently make and haven’t cut any corners. I used to think the Fanatec stuff had quite good buttons but they are basically no better than a game controller, the real good stuff feels amazing and magnetic shifters just feel right.

The podium line will be interesting to see simply because in the price market they will be competing in it’s not like anything they have gone up against before. Their gear compared to Thrustmaster and Logitech is of much higher quality (and also higher priced) but up against the big boys which are renowned for durability, reliability and used/tested on pro rigs, looking good is simply not good enough so they will have to step it up a lot to a level they haven’t been at before.

I won’t be going back now just because I’m in too deep on other gear, I only have the handbrake and Clubsport V1.5 shifter left but I’m still keeping an eye on it as new hardware is always exciting even if you have no intention of buying it.
 
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Fanatec make great stuff but just be aware of the market difference, they are consumer, Bodnar is professional and OSW is industrial hardware but with community software and that’s where Fanatec and SimXperience will have one up over OSW.
no communitiy software. mmos is not beeing used anymore and simubube software comes directly from granity.
 
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Buy a pnp wheel from simracingcoach (starting from about 400€), ascher-racing (about 700€) buy the universal hub (350€ + about 50€ for rebuilding it to work standalone) or build one by yourself. I 3d-printed mine.

And the universal rim does not have static paddles. Those paddles will rotate with the wheel.

It looks like I'm really confused now. I thought those Fanatec universal hub paddles were static.

If there a system where I can buy a set of static shift paddles and use it on different wheelbases, behind real-world rims?
 
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Why do you want them to be static? Is it possible, you mean something differen?. Static paddles means, that they will not rotate with the wheel. They stay static in the same position. Fanatec does offer them, but I think it's not compatbile with the universal rim: https://www.fanatec.com/us-en/wheel-base-accessories/clubsport-static-shifter-paddles-us.html

The universal hub ist a generic button plate with paddles, where you can mount your wheel of choice. But the paddles and the buttons will always roatate with the wheel.
 
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I like static shifters better in real life cars. I can't keep track of where downshift is when the wheel turns more than 180 degrees.

In games I have the same problem with wheel-rotating paddles. I have not tried static ones in games.

How that I am thinking about it more - at least the static ones should be a lot easier to do yourself. You only have to fix to the wheelbase and you don't interact with the wheel. Maybe I should just get 2 of those individual paddles in a sprung little box and nail them to the wheelbase. I just need some USB thing and appropriate Windows driver to make it a 2-button controller.
 
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  • Deleted member 197115

From what I've read Fanatec hit some issues during development thus delay as they were promising to start manufacturing back in October.
There are some bits of info on German forum
https://forum.virtualracing.org/showthread.php/104725-FANATEC-DIRECT-DRIVE-infothread
I don't think they can compete or planning to compete with OSW, may be with Accuforce.
Simucube solution is already pretty good, and new FW removes a lot of moving parts to make it more user friendly.
To deliver something of similar industrial quality Fanatec would need to charge an arm and a leg, to be competitive they would need to skip on a lot of things and that would definitely affect the quality of the final product. Not like Fanatec was ever known for delivering reliable goods.
 
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From what I've read Fanatec hit some issues during development thus delay as they were promising to start manufacturing back in October.
There are some bits of info on German forum
https://forum.virtualracing.org/showthread.php/104725-FANATEC-DIRECT-DRIVE-infothread
I don't think they can compete or planning to compete with OSW, may be with Accuforce.
Simucube solution is already pretty good, and new FW removes a lot of moving parts to make it more user friendly.
To deliver something of similar industrial quality Fanatec would need to charge an arm and a leg, to be competitive they would need to skip on a lot of things and that would definitely affect the quality of the final product. Not like Fanatec was ever known for delivering reliable goods.

It was already mentioned by Thomas they would be priced competitively.

Speculation on this or that, is only that, nothing out of the ordinary for Fanatec to not meet date/windows for product release. They have quite a lot going on...

If SimXperience can bring a good wheel to market, I don't see why Fanatec cant but apparently I am wrong for even believing this. Do you want to price a SimX wheel sent to EU/UK?

Whats more, on an individual personal basis I, WANT to see what their offerings bring before spending £1000 or more on a wheel base and rim.

This does not make the current options a bad purchase but its potential "reasons" for holding off, perhaps for some people, others perhaps not and that's fine..... Those that want to do such are not right or wrong, its a case of just being patient and curious at the same time.
 
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  • Deleted member 197115

Nothing wrong with wait.
Two questions you need to ask yourself:
- How much longer. The whole Fanatec DD started like what, 2 years ago and all we have seen so far is just not properly working prototype at SimExpo almost a year ago.Not even a spec.
- What are the chances that Fanatec solution will outperform OSW? Realistically, when it already holds its own against much more expensive Bodnar SimSteering. We already have commercial consumer solution from AF, so if you are considering that one, then yes, maybe wait.

Almost forgot brand reliability and considering brand new hardware and software they need to develop, how much longer it will take for them to work out all the wrinkles after the release.
 
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Nothing wrong with wait.
Two questions you need to ask yourself:
- How much longer. The whole Fanatec DD started like what, 2 years ago and all we have seen so far is just not properly working prototype at SimExpo almost a year ago.Not even a spec.
- What are the chances that Fanatec solution will outperform OSW? Realistically, when it already holds its own against much more expensive Bodnar SimSteering. We already have commercial consumer solution from AF, so if you are considering that one, then yes, maybe wait.

Almost forgot brand reliability and considering brand new hardware and software they need to develop, how much longer it will take for them to work out all the wrinkles after the release.

Your welcome to your own views but its down to the individual. I find it better to determine how good or bad what Fanetec bring when it arrives and base it on known facts or user feedback reviews etc. We haven't even seen yet the full version or know enough about it pure and simple.

Its upto the individual how or what and when they want to invest in such an expensive part of their simrig. I expect to see/learn more in the coming months and maybe that will help some to decide to just get an available option now or indeed to wait.
 
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I like static shifters better in real life cars. I can't keep track of where downshift is when the wheel turns more than 180 degrees.

In games I have the same problem with wheel-rotating paddles. I have not tried static ones in games.

How that I am thinking about it more - at least the static ones should be a lot easier to do yourself. You only have to fix to the wheelbase and you don't interact with the wheel. Maybe I should just get 2 of those individual paddles in a sprung little box and nail them to the wheelbase. I just need some USB thing and appropriate Windows driver to make it a 2-button controller.
not really a difference for making static or dynamic ones. all you need is a 3d printer...
 
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It was already mentioned by Thomas they would be priced competitively.

Speculation on this or that, is only that, nothing out of the ordinary for Fanatec to not meet date/windows for product release. They have quite a lot going on...

If SimXperience can bring a good wheel to market, I don't see why Fanatec cant but apparently I am wrong for even believing this. Do you want to price a SimX wheel sent to EU/UK?

Whats more, on an individual personal basis I, WANT to see what their offerings bring before spending £1000 or more on a wheel base and rim.

This does not make the current options a bad purchase but its potential "reasons" for holding off, perhaps for some people, others perhaps not and that's fine..... Those that want to do such are not right or wrong, its a case of just being patient and curious at the same time.
Certainly at normal prices the Accuforce in the UK and Europe is just a bit too much, I just jumped on the Black Friday deal which made everything a lot cheaper after delivery, VAT, import duty and currency conversion fees. Including the angle mount it was just over £1000 which the OSW’s don’t compete with as a full package and neither will the Fanatec price wise at least.

I’d like to try a Bodnar to compare as I can’t see there being much difference in the £1000-1500 price range, it’s more about what feel you like best, how much torque you want and the ecosystem.
 
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  • Deleted member 197115

Your welcome to your own views but its down to the individual. I find it better to determine how good or bad what Fanetec bring when it arrives and base it on known facts or user feedback reviews etc. We haven't even seen yet the full version or know enough about it pure and simple.

Its upto the individual how or what and when they want to invest in such an expensive part of their simrig. I expect to see/learn more in the coming months and maybe that will help some to decide to just get an available option now or indeed to wait.
I own OSW (original Argon based design) and owned and repaired some Fanatec gear, until replaced them with something of a higher quality and better reliability.
Even with all my optimism I just cannot see Fanatec changing overnight and delivering something of OSW quality at the same or lower price.
And if it's not going to happen, what is the point of wait when you can enjoy your DD wheel today?
Do we have release date yet, price, spec, anything concrete at all?
 
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I am out of this thread. It's pointless to discuss with Fanatec-fanboys. If you have the money, buy yourself an osw right know and you will be happy for the next 10 years. Fanatec won't be better for sure.
 
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I am out of this thread. It's pointless to discuss with Fanatec-fanboys. If you have the money, buy yourself an osw right know and you will be happy for the next 10 years. Fanatec won't be better for sure.
I think that’s a bit harsh, the build quality of each of their lines from CSR to CSL to CS are very different and match the prices. It’s not like Thrustmaster in the same price segments or anyone else for that matter are doing any better.

Is higher end gear built much better with far better reliability, sure, even their pedals which are highly praised feel cheap in comparison but the higher end gear is also higher priced to match.

Let’s see what they do with the Podium line before righting it all off, it could be something special or it could be more of the same. At the prices it will come to market at their competition is much stronger with a proven track record so they can’t afford issues if they want to capture that audience and why I suspect it’s been delayed so much.
 
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