Is VR Great?

[RCHeliguy]

Plenty of folks confuse resolution and sharpness.

If the overall picture quality "appears" similar, I'm not sure the terminology matters.

Consider the BSB and how it feels sharper to me than my higher ppd Aero did because of improved contrast and having less CA and moire' to impact what I'm seeing. I know I have less ppd, but the overall view looks sharper in game.

 

[metalnwood]

If the overall picture quality "appears" similar, I'm not sure the terminology matters.

Consider the BSB and how it feels sharper to me than my higher ppd Aero did because of improved contrast and having less CA and moire' to impact what I'm seeing. I know I have less ppd, but the overall view looks sharper in game.

I don't know the context of what Artur was saying but if we know the difference why not use the correct terms? Why dumb it down ourselves because some other people may not know the difference. How does that help us when we actually discuss something where the distinction is made and we have muddled up the terms?

 

[blekenbleu]

why not use the correct terms

Correct terms could include foveated sharpening.
If done precisely, it might qualify as deconvolution by preemphasis.
My understanding is that VR1 optics have higher MTF than do Crystal's.
VR1 MTF may be enough higher that preemphasis may not be worthwhile.

In reality, deconvolution is not practical for Crystal;
user-replaceable optics are not so precisely located..

 

[RCHeliguy]

I don't know the context of what Artur was saying but if we know the difference why not use the correct terms? Why dumb it down ourselves because some other people may not know the difference. How does that help us when we actually discuss something where the distinction is made and we have muddled up the terms?

Sorry, I was just repeating what someone else said about the Crystal and it wasn't Artur. Frankly I didn't think his comments are of any less value because of the terms he used.

I think maybe you are taking my VR1 comments separate from my comments from someone else who you know from a number of forums.

 

[metalnwood]

Correct terms could include foveated sharpening.
If done precisely, it might qualify as deconvolution by preemphasis.
My understanding is that VR1 optics have higher MTF than do Crystal's.
VR1 MTF may be enough higher that preemphasis may not be worthwhile.

For vr, i don't know what will be ultimately deemed as 'good enough' but it will be hard work to make a lens that that is sufficiently flat field and aberration free with cost and weight restrictions they will have to deal with. We all know what goes in to good multi element optics that try to do the same.

 

[metalnwood]

Sorry, I was just repeating what someone else said about the Crystal and it wasn't Artur. Frankly I didn't think his comments are of any less value because of the terms he used.

I think maybe you are taking my VR1 comments separate from my comments from someone else who you know from a number of forums.

I agree with you that people probably understood what he was meaning. I was replying to 'terminology doesn't matter'. In general I think we should use the correct terminology if we know it. They may appear the same to a layman in some contexts but sometimes they are distinct.
The rest about the other forums I am not on top of.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Given the VR1 is still unreleased and the the Almalance plugin has expired, maybe it's time to wait until we have new news that makes discussing this more relevant.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Sounds very good so far.

@gamma123152 He said that it makes the Crystal feel dim with a small sweet spot. He also said it is much sharper and clearer than the Crystal and will definitely be the king of the hill for flight sims. He said the colors look more natural than the Crystal and were in between the Beyond and the Crystal.

He said with the headset loose he was getting 120H FOV - 125H if he pushed it in a bit closer and he was describing the edge to edge clarity in it as being very good.

He did mention it's weight as an issue although he has the hand tracking and pass through cameras on this one. He also referred and some other unspecified things that he didn't want to talk about and that Artur is supposed to be addressing.

He also mentioned that the pass through was very good and sharp and that he was going to have a separate video showing how he masks off his cockpit.

 

[wajdi]

Mmmmmm…. It seems another heavy bulky headset.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Mmmmmm…. It seems another heavy bulky headset.

Yup! Nothing I would touch, but amongst the bigguns it looks to be a winner.

 

[gamma123152]

Sounds very good so far.

@gamma123152 He said that it makes the Crystal feel dim with a small sweet spot. He also said it is much sharper and clearer than the Crystal and will definitely be the king of the hill for flight sims. He said the colors look more natural than the Crystal and were in between the Beyond and the Crystal.

He said with the headset loose he was getting 120H FOV - 125H if he pushed it in a bit closer and he was describing the edge to edge clarity in it as being very good.

He did mention it's weight as an issue although he has the hand tracking and pass through cameras on this one. He also referred and some other unspecified things that he didn't want to talk about and that Artur is supposed to be addressing.

He also mentioned that the pass through was very good and sharp and that he was going to have a separate video showing how he masks off his cockpit.

Oh yes, I have a feeling that Artur is going to get some money out of my pocket but I want to know for 100% sure that he accepts returns easilly, because in the end VR is an subjective experience. I don't want to spend that much until he gives a clear statement about that.

I'm also wondering what negative points VR flight sim guy didn't want to mention, IF he is able to get them solved and what they exactly are. I hope that it's not worse CA/color shifting than the Crystal because those could be difficult to solve and they can really harm the experience and that a thing that he doesn't comment on in the comment section.

I'm also concered about the render resolution, in the end of the video he mentioned that it's extremely demanding and that a 4090 struggles a lot with the VR1 so it's unusure with what settings it's currently usable at 90fps/hz locked/fullPPD/4xMSAA/fullFoV. I don't want to downgrade on my PPD/MSAA settings and since there's no 5090 on the market yet, it could be a (big) problem.

But in the end, the VR1 seems to be so insanely good that it's probably going to be a must buy for every VR enthousiast that has the budget for it.

Yup! Nothing I would touch, but amongst the bigguns it looks to be a winner.

Make sure that you don't ever see through the one of the two bigguns, otherwise you'll still switch instanty

 

[RCHeliguy]

Make sure that you don't ever see through the one of the two bigguns, otherwise you'll still switch instanty

I think I'd be up for that challenge, and I'm not even remotely concerned.

I don't think what the Beyond is has clicked for you, and I'm not sure it ever will. That's perfectly fine. I doubt that experiencing the Beyond would change your mind about it because of your priorities.

The same goes for me. I was offered a Crystal to evaluate and in my eyes evaluating a Crystal would have been work rather than something I enjoyed doing. It simply has too many deal breakers for me because I have a very different set of priorities from you.

None of this is right or wrong. We simply have different viewpoints.

All that said, I do think the VR1 is a pretty decent step forward from the Aero and Crystal.

Aero (good sharpness, limited vertical FOV, panning blur, lack of local dimming )
Crystal( good vertical FOV, working local dimming, heavy, bulky, requires battery )
VR1 ( very good vertical and horizontal FOV, working local dimming, more nits, better color, sharper optics, optional hand tracking and pass through cameras )

They are clearly Aero -> Crystal -> VR1 for image quality

And the Beyond is something different, better in some ways and worse in others.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Edit: Maybe this is a good thing.

Sounds like there may be a Crystal stripped of battery and processor available this year.

With the VR1 coming out and clearly outclassing it for visuals, they need to find ways to remove cost from the price of the Crystal to help make a better value proposition to help keep demand up.

A uOLED version seems much more questionable for this year just because of the size of uOLED displays in production. That seems more like an end of next year possibility.

 

[Leynad777]

I don't trust VR Flight sim Guy regarding the VR1. Few months ago three YouTubers could test the VR1 at the Somnium headquarter and only he gave it a thumbs up. VoodooDE VR and SadlyItsBradley both basically rated it down for the same reasons and both doesn't seem to be in possession of this new version, so I guess those problems haven't been really fixed they've mentioned...

 

[RCHeliguy]

I don't trust VR Flight sim Guy regarding the VR1. Few months ago three YouTubers could test the VR1 at the Somnium headquarter and only he gave it a thumbs up. VoodooDE VR and SadlyItsBradley both basically rated it down for the same reasons and both doesn't seem to be in possession of this new version, so I guess those problems haven't been really fixed they've mentioned...

That's fair.

Somnium will need to get the VR1 into the hands of other reviewers and if there is no correlation, that will be an issue. Also when people start to get their units and report back, we will have more information about this.

SadlyItsBradley is generally not a fan of aspheric lenses, although he generally seemed to be OK with the XR-4.

It is obvious that Artur is showing some favoritism by not just sending one pre-production headset, but also following it up with an early production copy. I'm unaware of any other reviewers getting a VR1 any time soon.

 

[Leynad777]

That's fair.

Somnium will need to get the VR1 into the hands of other reviewers and if there is no correlation, that will be an issue. Also when people start to get their units and report back, we will have more information about this.

SadlyItsBradley is generally not a fan of aspheric lenses, although he generally seemed to be OK with the XR-4.

It is obvious that Artur is showing some favoritism by not just sending one pre-production headset, but also following it up with an early production copy. I'm unaware of any other reviewers getting a VR1 any time soon.

VoodooDE likes the Crystal, BSB and Quest3, but didn't like the VR1, so certainly too early to draw any conclusion.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Given final pricing has not been specified for the VR1 except for the bare bones without eye tracking which I seriously doubt many people will buy. If another vendor were to have a headset with eye tracking for say 50% or less the cost of the VR1 with eye tracking. Let's say they even hit that magical $999 price point. That might impact VR1 sales enough to effect initial volume enough to come back around and effect pricing. Potential ouch!

 

[wajdi]

It’s a step over the Bobo M3 pro. Try built quality is much better. More comfort and fan is a nice addition plus the battery is a big improvement over the old version .
I ordered from Amazon the globular cluster F3 which seems to add much more comfort and better FOV for the Q3. I will update about it once I have it.

 

[Leynad777]

This KKCOBVR is a step over the M3 Pro as well for less than half the price.

 

[blekenbleu]

some favoritism

MRTV leaked both Crystal follow-ons and hints at another imminent micro-OLED PCVR headset
- pique at being left out of VR1 previews?

$999 price point. That might impact VR1 sales enough

Asian-assembled units should be expected to come in for half the cost of EU assembly.
I am perhaps too sympathetic to Somnium not wanting to distribute and support a bunch of beta units.
No other reviewers getting meaningful access before orders open would be quite concerning.