Isolation for rig on wheels in apartment block inc tactile feedback

[super kermit]

Hi All

My rig is on wheels (and has to stay on wheels) and I also need to be nice to my neighbors.

Rig is on a tiled concrete floor, though I can put an ikea rug down as an option over rubber matts?

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STOENSE Rug, low pile, off-white, 133x195 cm - IKEA

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I have a buttkicker mini LFE on the pedal deck and one on the seat. (2 x mini LFE)

Behringer NX1000D Power Amplifier 1000W with DSP (overkill?)

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NLR Next Level Racing GTtrack Simulator Racing Cockpit.

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Next Level Racing GTtrack | Advanced Simulation Products

nextlevelracing.com

I am thinking of using these to isolate the seat and pedals from the rig

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

to isolate the seat and the pedal deck from the frame and now considering the below to provide some immersion but also not annoy the neighbors.

Elite SRS ShakeCombo (includes SRS License for Bass Shaker) | simracingstudio

Save when you buy the SRS Elite ShakeCombo Kits include the following: 1x ShakeBox Elite 1x ShakeSeat 1x ShakePedal 1x ShakeBack Extra Layer of Padding (removable) on ShakeSeat SRS License for Shaking All cables Just plug-and-race Shakers tuning guide...

www.simracingstudio.com

Any feedback would be great, I went down the hole of more transducers then thought of my neighbors.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I don´t think ( but do not know either) that the rug will do much isolating.

After I found out that my first try in isolation didn´t do much ( neighbor was very nice about it)
I´ll have to up my game.
A wooden beam under the aluminum profil rig and three 6mm layers of rubbermat didn´t do enough.

Step two will be four feet (m10 with 30mm caps) on the aforementioned rubber mats, seems an improvement, i could turn the amps down a bit.
Let´s see ( hear) what my neighbour thinks about it.

Step three would be to use much thicker rubber mats, 30mm can be had locally, they are marketed as noise/vibration stop for washing mashines. reviews are not that bad.

The rubber mounts you mentioned above I´ve tried on my seat, they had loads of deflection, so with a 30kg brake the seat would bend back several cm´s.
At the moment I have them under my heel plate disconnected from the pedals so it´s freefloating on the isolators, still the heel shaker can be felt in the complete rig.

Let´s see where this journey goes,

MFG Carsten

 

[super kermit]

Can I ask what you used for your seat then instead please?

 

[stigs2cousin]

The seat rails itself are only divided from the rig by a 6mm rubber strip which probably doesn´t do much.
But the seat bottom in my (street car) Recaro Sportster CS is a plastic "bowl" that is connected to the steel seat frame by two hinges in the front and two springs in the back. So I guess that counts as isolation too.

I just did a test, the smaller shaker under the heelrest which is suspended on the rubber blockes can be felt in the frame rails of the rig much stronger than the stronger shaker under the seat.
So the rubber blocks don´t do a good job of isolating the vibrations.

MFG Carsten

 

[blekenbleu]

rubber blocks don´t do a good job of isolating

Isolation requires elastic (e.g. steel) springs; rubber has too much internal damping, which necessarily transfers rather than storing (and subsequently returning) energy.

 

[super kermit]

OK, So I need STEEL springs for the seat and the pedals to isolate them from the frame?

 

[blekenbleu]

STEEL springs for the seat and the pedals to isolate them

Some elastomers may be elastic enough, but getting that right requires expertise beyond mine.
Steel springs want added damping to keep them from bouncing too much for too long.
That may be accomplished e.g. by sponge plugs inside coil springs and/or elastomer cups around them.
Springs must change length in order to store energy;
springs rate can be calculated from total loads and allowable deflection.
Getting damping right can be tedious, as can
controlling (minimizing) unwanted spring deflections in other directions

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I am not sure about wheeled installation but these worked quite well under Sim-Lab P1X legs.

Amazon.com: Diversitech MP4-E E.V.A. Anti-Vibration Pad, 4" x 4" x 7/8" Pack of 4: Home Improvement

Amazon.com: Diversitech MP4-E E.V.A. Anti-Vibration Pad, 4" x 4" x 7/8" Pack of 4: Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

They will stink rubber at first so leave them outside under the sun for a few days.

 

[Botmeister]

I used to have a rug but with a lot of static issues. As soon as I switched to an (anti static) rubber mat all problems were gone.

 

[JJ Gordon]

Anti-vibration pads or a heavy duty rubber mat for me. Can't go wrong and will keep you well isolated from static.

 

[No Depth]

I also am an apartment dweller with a very thin floor(and neighbors below that previously complained when I had a single Gamer 2 going on a Playseat Evolution with no dampening). Since then, I managed to isolate well enough with my current rig, a P-1X with an NLR Motion V3 and six bass shakers(four Dayton Exciters, a BK Gamer 2, and a Concert Mini).

I basically put down one of those puzzle-piece gym mats and then draped a shag rug over it(more for my feet and my standing desk which the rig shares space with). That combo will help dampen some, but I also have both my Seat and Pedal deck isolated with M8 rubber bobbins. Basically just fitting them between the place they normally bolt directly to the rig profiles. It doesn't entirely silence the vibrations, but it does limit it quite a bit.

So between the floor mat and the rubber isolators I have not had another complaint yet. My rig is moving and shaking like crazy but when I feel the area underneath, it is barely buzzing as much as a controller vibration, which I doubt is felt to them below.

 

[super kermit]

I also am an apartment dweller with a very thin floor(and neighbors below that previously complained when I had a single Gamer 2 going on a Playseat Evolution with no dampening). Since then, I managed to isolate well enough with my current rig, a P-1X with an NLR Motion V3 and six bass shakers(four Dayton Exciters, a BK Gamer 2, and a Concert Mini).

I basically put down one of those puzzle-piece gym mats and then draped a shag rug over it(more for my feet and my standing desk which the rig shares space with). That combo will help dampen some, but I also have both my Seat and Pedal deck isolated with M8 rubber bobbins. Basically just fitting them between the place they normally bolt directly to the rig profiles. It doesn't entirely silence the vibrations, but it does limit it quite a bit.

So between the floor mat and the rubber isolators I have not had another complaint yet. My rig is moving and shaking like crazy but when I feel the area underneath, it is barely buzzing as much as a controller vibration, which I doubt is felt to them below.

Do you have a link to the rubber isolators please?

 

[Ruttman98]

Ditto--please provide a link to the bobbins.

And your casters as well!

 

[No Depth]

Ditto--please provide a link to the bobbins.

And your casters as well!

Do you have a link to the rubber isolators please?

So the bobbins can be found relatively easily on Amazon in various varieties. I chose M8 40mm x 40mm with no stems on either side. 40mm diameter(1.5 in) matches the length of the rails so they fit snug across the width. I needed extra height for my buttkicker clearance in the back to avoid rubbing against the back rail as my seat mover will tilt the arm, so I also added a rubber washer on top to give it a bit more height too(unnecessary for most though), but this is all specific to my rig. Can go lower in height if not needing extra clearance. Below is an example of what I got, but again there are many identical and different varieties to source. No need to get these exact ones. 40x30mm can work fine for normal cases(easier to find too)

MroMax 1.57" x 1.57 '' M8 External Thread Rubber Mounts, Vibration Isolators, Replaces Anti Vibration Pads Flat Silentblock Base Block Black 1pcs: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

MroMax 1.57" x 1.57 '' M8 External Thread Rubber Mounts, Vibration Isolators, Replaces Anti Vibration Pads Flat Silentblock Base Block Black 1pcs: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

The big issue you will face is that if you get ones with a stem on one end(to bolt right into a t-nut), the stems included are too long and will bottom out in the channel. I think most come with 25mm stems, but you really need like 16mm to fit snug into the rail. Either you can Dremel them down to fit(recommended if access to tools) or find alternatives. I don’t have power tools, so I got a pack of these to fit into the rail and bolt to the bottom of the bobbins(instead of t-nuts). It’s not clean but it works and gives no issue once you tighten. May scratch inner channel of rail though.

PZRT 8pcs M8 x 16mm Hammer Head Bolt T Screw, 8pcs M8 Hexagon Flange Nuts Set, Carbon Steel Nickel Plated for 4040 Series Standard 8mm T-Slot Aluminum Profile: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

PZRT 8pcs M8 x 16mm Hammer Head Bolt T Screw, 8pcs M8 Hexagon Flange Nuts Set, Carbon Steel Nickel Plated for 4040 Series Standard 8mm T-Slot Aluminum Profile: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Basically had to get creative, but again if you can shorten the bolt length with a tool, bobbins with a bolt attached are recommended to fit right into a t-nut direct. Maybe you can find bobbins with ~16mm stems, but I couldnt.

The casters are just 4” flat top(no stem). Lots of varieties, colors, etc on Amazon or hardware store. The flat top has four bolt holes and m8 bolts fit perfectly into the corners of the rails(well 3 bolts will get used with the fourth requiring a corner bracket or unbolted). No need to get 4” wheels either, I needed them as my rig is heavier than most and I need to wheel it on top of my mat, so 4 worked best for me. Can certainly go 2 or 3 inch. SimLab sells 2” wheels for their rigs for example.

Amazon.com: Heavy Duty Plate Caster Wheels 4" PU No Noise,Premium Polyurethane Double Ball Bearing Steels,Easily Lock or Unlock -330 Lbs Per Casters (Pack of 4, 2 Swivel Dual Locking & 2 Swivel) Black Wheel : Everything Else

Amazon.com: Heavy Duty Plate Caster Wheels 4" PU No Noise,Premium Polyurethane Double Ball Bearing Steels,Easily Lock or Unlock -330 Lbs Per Casters (Pack of 4, 2 Swivel Dual Locking & 2 Swivel) Black Wheel : Everything Else

www.amazon.com

Oh and just to add, I threw a thin layer of rubberized foam on the caster plate(cut holes for the bolts). So basically the foam is sandwiched between the rig and the wheel plates. Got the idea from @Mr Latte in a separate thread. It may help further dampen a bit as well.

Finally expect this to reduce transfer of vibration(especially in the rig!). But some will still escape, just not as much.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I´v tried some of these " bobbins" ( generic amazon) and they didn´t work out for me.

I use a street car seat that is mounted rigidly to a DIY aluminium rig.

The four bobbins were easy to mount but showed way too much deflection to steer, let alone brake with any kind of control.
Which seems logical since one can bend these things with the naked hand. Pedal set was T3PA pro with loadcell modification. My HSV Sprints with around 50kg´s brakeforce would have me (probably ) severing the seat from the profiles.
So they may work for a seat mover, but I can´t see them working under a seat mounted directly or with a slider.

I also don´t like them very much as an insulation for my heelrest because the ( not very powerful ) Dayton Audio BST-2 can clearly be felt in the aluminium profiles even though mounted with for boobins on wooden traverses.

I had some success by putting the whole rig on M10 feet and rubber matting, but there´s still lots of room for improvement.

MFG Carsten

 

[Ruttman98]

So the bobbins can be found relatively easily on Amazon in various varieties. I chose M8 40mm x 40mm with no stems on either side. 40mm diameter(1.5 in) matches the length of the rails so they fit snug across the width. I needed extra height for my buttkicker clearance in the back to avoid rubbing against the back rail as my seat mover will tilt the arm, so I also added a rubber washer on top to give it a bit more height too(unnecessary for most though), but this is all specific to my rig. Can go lower in height if not needing extra clearance. Below is an example of what I got, but again there are many identical and different varieties to source. No need to get these exact ones. 40x30mm can work fine for normal cases(easier to find too)

MroMax 1.57" x 1.57 '' M8 External Thread Rubber Mounts, Vibration Isolators, Replaces Anti Vibration Pads Flat Silentblock Base Block Black 1pcs: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

MroMax 1.57" x 1.57 '' M8 External Thread Rubber Mounts, Vibration Isolators, Replaces Anti Vibration Pads Flat Silentblock Base Block Black 1pcs: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

The big issue you will face is that if you get ones with a stem on one end(to bolt right into a t-nut), the stems included are too long and will bottom out in the channel. I think most come with 25mm stems, but you really need like 16mm to fit snug into the rail. Either you can Dremel them down to fit(recommended if access to tools) or find alternatives. I don’t have power tools, so I got a pack of these to fit into the rail and bolt to the bottom of the bobbins(instead of t-nuts). It’s not clean but it works and gives no issue once you tighten. May scratch inner channel of rail though.

PZRT 8pcs M8 x 16mm Hammer Head Bolt T Screw, 8pcs M8 Hexagon Flange Nuts Set, Carbon Steel Nickel Plated for 4040 Series Standard 8mm T-Slot Aluminum Profile: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

PZRT 8pcs M8 x 16mm Hammer Head Bolt T Screw, 8pcs M8 Hexagon Flange Nuts Set, Carbon Steel Nickel Plated for 4040 Series Standard 8mm T-Slot Aluminum Profile: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Basically had to get creative, but again if you can shorten the bolt length with a tool, bobbins with a bolt attached are recommended to fit right into a t-nut direct. Maybe you can find bobbins with ~16mm stems, but I couldnt.

The casters are just 4” flat top(no stem). Lots of varieties, colors, etc on Amazon or hardware store. The flat top has four bolt holes and m8 bolts fit perfectly into the corners of the rails(well 3 bolts will get used with the fourth requiring a corner bracket or unbolted). No need to get 4” wheels either, I needed them as my rig is heavier than most and I need to wheel it on top of my mat, so 4 worked best for me. Can certainly go 2 or 3 inch. SimLab sells 2” wheels for their rigs for example.

Amazon.com: Heavy Duty Plate Caster Wheels 4" PU No Noise,Premium Polyurethane Double Ball Bearing Steels,Easily Lock or Unlock -330 Lbs Per Casters (Pack of 4, 2 Swivel Dual Locking & 2 Swivel) Black Wheel : Everything Else

Amazon.com: Heavy Duty Plate Caster Wheels 4" PU No Noise,Premium Polyurethane Double Ball Bearing Steels,Easily Lock or Unlock -330 Lbs Per Casters (Pack of 4, 2 Swivel Dual Locking & 2 Swivel) Black Wheel : Everything Else

www.amazon.com

Oh and just to add, I threw a thin layer of rubberized foam on the caster plate(cut holes for the bolts). So basically the foam is sandwiched between the rig and the wheel plates. Got the idea from @Mr Latte in a separate thread. It may help further dampen a bit as well.

Finally expect this to reduce transfer of vibration(especially in the rig!). But some will still escape, just not as much.

Thank you for detailed reply and for your ingenuity. Part of the fun of building a rig is finding creative solutions and getting to use power tools!

 

[Atak_Kat]

As an alternative, look into getting 4 Yoga Blocks made from EVA foam. They are very common, and inexpensive. They are 'just' a bit taller than the wheels on my P1X frame, so I put one under each corner of the frame and the entire things is suspended on the blocks. I guess if you need the rig moveable every day, that could be a pain to add/remove them each time. So depends on how often you have to move the rig, I guess.

EVA foam is commonly used for vibration and shock protection in many uses. It works well for me, and is a pretty low cost option/alternative to try, before spending lots of $

 

[Deleted member 197115]

So what is the latest word in isolation world?
Looking for solution that provides seat isolation with no flex. Currently using these, and seat does move a bit under breaking and when leaning from side to side. No drama and perfectly acceptable, but would love to see if there is anything more rigid, if such thing exists.

 

[RCHeliguy]

So what is the latest word in isolation world?
Looking for solution that provides seat isolation with no flex. Currently using these, and seat does move a bit under breaking and when leaning from side to side. No drama and perfectly acceptable, but would love to see if there is anything more rigid, if such thing exists.

Have you seen Mr. Latte's Race-Bass isolation ? It's has been used by Peter Winkle in his build thread. It appears that it is pretty solid horizontally while allowing vertical travel. He has 4 of the Race-Bass isolators mounted to brackets on his profile frame then to a plate above that a BK-LFE and TST429 bolt to below and the seat bolts to above.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I saw that, not so sure about pretty solid horizonatally part with that sandwiched spring. Afraid some flex in isolators is inevitable due to the nature of the function.