PC1 Let's kill one of the biggest misconception about WMD

[c172fccc]

A misconception so big that SMS and many WMD members are getting wrong.

"Project CARS was tested by 80 000 people"

Yeah, let's kill that one.

1. Where does this miconception come from?

On wmdportal, at the bottom, it is written

.

2. Why is it wrong?

It isn't wrong, it is very true. The problem is that free members and people with multiple account (I'll talk about this) are included in that count.

3. So how do we count how many are paid account than?

The answer is in the face of everyone.

This:

Let's do some math.
A Junior account is 10€, Team Member is 25€, Full Member is 50€, Manager is 1000€ and Senior Manager is 25000€.

88180/10 = 8818
255025/25 = 10201
380315/50 = 7606,3 (it doesn't work for some reasons)
158300/100 = 1583
486805/1000 = 486,805 (I'll explain why it doesn't work)
887030/25000 = 35,4812 (I'll explain why it doesn't work)
For a total of 28 731 members, and that's just the maximum.

4.Why is it the maximum?

What if you wanted to put more than 100€, but 1000€ was too much? It's easy, you just had to buy another account.

What if you wanted to put more than 1000€, but 25 000€ is too much? Managers could have a multiplier. You could be Manage (x1.75), for example.

What if you wanted to put more than 25 000€? Senior Manager could also have a multiplier.

I doubt there was more than 20 000 different people.

5. So that's it, there was approximately 20 000 people testing the game?

Not really. Some of these people never really tried the game for many reasons. Some people didn't have a proper pc to play the game, some people were just waiting for the final game, some people were here only for the money, ect.

And that's not all. Testing the game is nothing if you are not reporting. If you had a crash, you had to go on the forum to post them, nothing was automatic. Same thing for bugs, you had to report them.

I counted some times ago that there was exactly 9697 members with at least 1 post on the forum and most of them probably didn't ever post proper feedback. Also don't forget that people that only reported things 4 years ago are included in this count.


In conclusion, SMS, WMD Members and everyone, stop saying that there was 80 000 testers. Say more than 20 000 testers, and you're still wrong. Say more than 20 000 backers and you might be right.

 

[William Wester]

Very good assessment. I believe a very large number of members bought in to play the game and provided very little feedback if any at all. What I saw was a relatively small group that were very active in the discussions. I still believe the concept worked to a point but the game was ultimately developed by SMS staff. Just because they received feedback didn't mean the feedback had a large influence on the end result.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Even if the game was tested by hundreds or a few thousand people the end result with massive bugs is just poor. Posting an excuse thread makes no difference, 20,000 is still a massive group and the largest in sim racing history for sure.

If SMS didn't listen to the feedback dedicated testers have given with regards to bugs you didn't push enough. If people really cared about quality of the end product you would have fought for it.

 

[c172fccc]

That wasn't an excuse thread. Just wanted to inform people that this statement was wrong, but whatever Bram. If you want to turn an informative thread into a negative thread against SMS and WMD, go for it, but I expected better.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

You call it negative, I call it realistic. If this game was properly tested during the three years of being in development my life as an organizer would be a lot easier. Not to mention the players that encounter the same recurring issues when they want to race on our dedicated server evening after evening.

We have now arrived at patch 2.0 and still the red flag issues aren't solved. Please link us to a recent WMD thread where you guys are pushing for these bugs to be fixed.

 

[c172fccc]

It was a damn informative thread about a misconception, Bram. I talked about it because people were talking about this in the comment section on the last articles of PRC. But, yeah, sure, I made that just as an excuse for the bugs, while I didn't even mentioned the bugs once.

I didn't want this to be an inflammatory thread about the bugs and how SMS and WMD Members handled it. I just wanted a neutral informative thread, but you decided otherwise.

 

[Hash_V8]

Can anyone tell me the number of beta testers of RF2? or AC? what about RRE? no, probably because no one cares, the games a mess, and the only possible reason to state number of testers, which is still a staggering amount for any game,is damage control, you should head over to WMD forums and post your results in the bugs section, remind the devs how much help they,ve had.

 

[c172fccc]

the games a mess, and the only possible reason to state number of testers, which is still a staggering amount for any game,is damage control

I was just correcting a common misconception.... No need to start conspiracies...

 

[SwaggerJacker]

I was just correcting a common misconception.... No need to start conspiracies...

The thing of it is, no one really cares. I honestly don't know why you posted it. I'm playing the game again. Still the most fun I've ever had racing in a game, but the game is riddled with cockroaches. Big fat greasy windshield cracking T3 "I'll be back", bugs.

Swagg

 

[Andy_J]

Like Swagger says, who cares who and how many tested and reported anything. It didn't make any difference to the finished result. I did regular build reports here and if I mentioned something was crap I said so. And I regularly got jumped on for saying so.

I remember not long before the final build I said something along the lines that Pcars was just not ready yet with too many bugs, too many things not implemented. But again I got some negative responses from the investors (and some more insults) but water off a ducks back to me.

Anyway I am still enjoying the game for practice laps and car testing and the odd MP races here at the club and I am hoping it will get better before they abandon it. I pray that they will fix what we need for great MP racing as I don't bother with the carreer part as it has too many bugs.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

It was a damn informative thread about a misconception, Bram.

Instead of venting your anger at me, why not address it to the people that are actually responsible for the misconception.

So once again it's okay to mislead people before launch with false advertising and after launch when the problems hit the fan the WMD members need to spread damage control information that contradicts with what SMS themselves have stated over and over again.

Don't get mad at those that debunk the fables, get mad at those that actually spread misleading information in the first place.

And no marketing is not an excuse. The message below could also have stated that it was tested by a handful/hundred/thousand people but yet the 80K was thrown in to make it more impressive.

While you are informing us with the truth, why not start a new thread to explain this misconception:

How a community assisted multiplatform game that has been in development for over three years with a team of 100 to 140 employees got funded by only 3.7 million euros.

No publisher and big shadow investors that actually determined the path this game went right?

Looking forward to it.

 

[vee10]

Instead of venting your anger at me, why not address it to the people that are actually responsible for the misconception.

So once again it's okay to mislead people before launch with false advertising and after launch when the problems hit the fan the WMD members need to spread damage control information that contradicts with what SMS themselves have stated over and over again.

Don't get mad at those that debunk the fables, get mad at those that actually spread misleading information in the first place.

And no marketing is not an excuse. The message below could also have stated that it was tested by a handful/hundred/thousand people but yet the 80K was thrown in to make it more impressive.

View attachment 97858

While you are informing us with the truth, why not start a new thread to explain this misconception:

How a community assisted multiplatform game that has been in development for over three years with a team of 100 to 140 employees got funded by only 3.7 million euros.

View attachment 97862

No publisher and big shadow investors that actually determined the path this game went right?

Looking forward to it.

You can't get one over on Detective Bram Van Der Valk.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

 

[vee10]

I plan on getting arrested in Amsterdam sounds like a good way to spend a evening.

As for this making excuses thread, I find it inexcusable that anyone can excuse the inexcusable fact that this game is inexcusably broken and or badly designed in many areas. SMS are a professional experienced company that has made numerous games they cannot have realistically thought this game was ready to ship either that or they did not care enough about it. Patch 2.0 has not made any discernible difference.

If it was 10, 200 or 20,000 testers either they were not giving the dev's the right feedback or SMS ignored what they were telling them, somewhere along the line this was deemed fit to release.

Hopefully as has happened with the new Batman game and Steam refunds this kind of piss poor attention to detail will be a thing of the past.

 

[Dyrgl]

Be it factually true or not (which is a debate I´m not interested in), I don´t know, and about stuff I don´t know I prefer not to talk about.

However, if this is somehow an "excuse" you throw to explain the quality of the final product, let me just laugh. The game would have turned out better if:

- whatever X number of "feedback givers" was free to speak their mind openly without being assaulted, banned, etc.
- whatever X number of "feedback givers", once free to speak, had been listened by SMS. Everybody in there knew pad default profiles were a joke > no action taken.

The problem wasn´t "there was not enough feedback", the problem was the treatment given to negative feedback and the level of f***s given by SMS about the feedback these guys gathered and were allowed to voice.

 

[c172fccc]

Why I made this thread?

I saw this comment on PRC:

I made this one:

Then the guy made this:

So, instead of making this big post in the comment section, where nobody would saw it, I decided to make it here, because I rember seeing people getting that wrong here, and also post the link in the comment section of PRC (I finally didn't, because there was a similar post to mine when a was about to post it). I tought it was a good idea.

Instead of venting your anger at me

That's because you accused me of making an excuse thread, wish I said I wasn't, but you continued anyway.

why not address it to the people that are actually responsible for the misconception

Because I wanted to make neutral informative thread, not spitting accusation at anybody.

 

[vee10]

80000 Bakers would have been more use. Mmmmmm lovely freshly baked bread.

 

[c172fccc]

Look guys, if you don't want to believe me, at least give me the benefit of doubt and stop accusing me.

Am I the only that is shocked that it is the owner of this website that started and is fueling the accusations?

 

[Andy_J]

Am I the only that is shocked that it is the owner of this website that started and is fueling the accusations?

What accusations?

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Am I the only that is shocked that it is the owner of this website that started and is fueling the accusations?

So the owner can't have his own opinion and needs to do exactly what game companies want? No thanks