lets talk about lighting effects

Dirk Steffen

Porsche Factory Jackass™
Premium
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THIS is the look I am after with rF2 in low light levels.
All I get though is a shiny glittery ball effect with these really overdone star shaped higlight effects.

I there any way to have ULTRA PP settings but completely disable the highlight effects?
 
Can you show both side by side? With post processing effects enabled, we do have some effects that simulate what a camera lens would show. I don't think we're "overdoing" it, but I'd like to first understand what you mean exactly.
 
Examples are more helpful, as you can imagine the whole testing team and myself have driven quite a few laps at Sebring, under different conditions and with different graphics settings, and you are the first to report that the lights are blinding. So please illustrate what you mean with a few screenshots so we can discuss them.
 
Can you show both side by side? With post processing effects enabled, we do have some effects that simulate what a camera lens would show. I don't think we're "overdoing" it, but I'd like to first understand what you mean exactly.

Currently I have all graphics settings maxed out (both in launcher and in game options). I am trying to see how I can have rF2 look as close to reality.

The effect I refer to is resembling what aperture blade refraction artifacts would look like yet it's implementation is physically incorrect and completely overdone.

I would prefer to have control over this effect (I would completely disable it) rather than having to disable ALL post processing effects in order to get rid of it (I searched the files in the installation folder up and down and could not find any option to disable just this effect).

I explained the background behind this effect already a few times too many on this forum, so I won't go into much detail.
In short:
The star shaped lighting effect is created in reality by very strong light (such as very bright, direct headlights, emphasis is here on VERY bright, such as full on endurance lights directed STRAIGHT at the camera lens) refracting at the straight portion of the closed down (stopped down) aperture blades (only with straight bladed diaphragm designs).
High quality optical designs do reduce or entirely eliminate this issue (it is an optical artifact, optical engineers, photographers and cinematographers try to avoid except for specific artistic use such as in 1970's soft porn movies were cinematographers would even utilize star-filters to further increase this effect).

This effect physically does only occur when lenses are stopped down (closing the aperture past ~f4-f5.6 and steadily increasing towards smaller apertures with most lens designs that suffer from this aperture blade design insufficiency).

One thing (which is my major cause for annoyance) that is NEVER happening as it is physically impossible is that these artifacts rotate as it is implemented in rF2 currently.
In order for these artifacts to rotate in the way it is currently implemented the aperture assembly of the lens (read: the entire lens assembly) would have to by physically rotated in relation to the recording sensor which is not only impractical but completely unwanted and such a situation does not exist in regular broadcasting camera equipment.

Examples are more helpful, as you can imagine the whole testing team and myself have driven quite a few laps at Sebring, under different conditions and with different graphics settings, and you are the first to report that the lights are blinding. So please illustrate what you mean with a few screenshots so we can discuss them.

I really wish I could make a screenshot but in fact I cannot :-(
The way rF2 runs on my setup I cannot access any of the screenshot tools and somehow I seem also not being able to use the Steam screenshot function with rF2.
I think though that everyone who uses the current rF2 build with post processing at it's highest setting knows precisely what effect I am referring to.

The image in the opening post is a screenshot I found on the net probably from an earlier DX11 build with graphics that look much more likely as reality would look like compared to the current implementation of effects.

If the star shaped diffraction artifacts could be removed or could be aligned with reality (I doubt this is even possibly in ANY of the current generation 3D engines as these aperture diffraction artifacts are constantly changing in extension, strength and shape definition as the subject (car) with it's headlights is moving in relation to the camera, hence the intensity of light is constantly changing, hence the shape of the artifacts is constantly changing (they are never as static and perfectly pointed as it is currently rendered in rF2 - it would take extremely small apertures such as f16 or f32 in order to get such sharp extensions which in exchange is extremely unrealistic as then not enough ambient light would be able to expose the sensor and all you would see in the image would be a dark, muddy and clipped image with just a few refraction stars.

Btw - in relation to broadcasting equipment diffraction stars can be seen in a mild shape from the brightest light sources around the track (very bright endurance head lights in full trim), less strong lightsources though such as position lights, rear lights, even brake lights and certainly not backfiring flames usually DO NOT have sufficiently strong illumination to create diffraction artifacts at same exposure settings on the camera - which is another major issue I have with the implementation in the current rF2 build - it does look like a 1970's softporn movie with the cinematographer sufficiently high to have the audacity to use vaselined star shape filters on his camera lens ;-)

Please give us the possibility to specifically disable this effect as an immediate workaround, and better for the future provide the ability to fine tune the effect (level of light sources to cause the effect, no more rotating patterns, shape of pattern adjustable to resemble reality, etc ...
 
For illustration what diffraction artifacts look in reality:

Ford GT - the most intense diffraction artifact I could find in my archive from an almost direct illumination into the lens at full endurance light setup:
_DSC3768-NIKON D800E-6 hours of Shanghai - LM GTE PRO #66 Ford GT - Ford Chip Ganassi Team UK.jpg

This is at realistic exposure values for such a capture which would also be used by a competent cinematographer (you avoid strongly stopped down small apertures in favor of maximum dynamic range at the digital sensor in order to not blow highlights and / or loose shadow detail).
The exif data is intact, see for yourself.
See also the very detailed artifacts caused by each individual small LED light source in the triple head light design.

Here is another example of very similar exposure values that illustrates how much LESS intense artifacts are if you change the angle of impact just a bit (same exact car, same event, similar exposure values):
_DSC9090-NIKON D800E-6 hours of Shanghai - LM GTE PRO #66 Ford GT - Ford Chip Ganassi Team UK.jpg


See how much less artifacts are visible here? It is almost not perceivable.

Here is a car that runs MUCH stronger headlights than the Ford GT:
_DSC5634-NIKON D3-WEC 6 hours of Shanghai - G-Drive Racing.jpg


See how irregular the pattern is - also this is as intense as it gets with professional camera gear. These artifacts do look much more intense with less costly gear where optical lens design and aperture design is handicapped.

I think that sums up why I would really like those star shaped patterns to vanish.
Currently the best we can achieve in current generation racing sim 3D engines is probably to remove ANY canned, artificial star patterns and simply use different levels and extensions of bloom, combined with lens flare artifacts (see the different lens flare patterns with the LMP car above as the very intense endurance lights are hitting almost STRAIGHT into the lens ?).

These canned star shaped pattern are simply not the way to go for realism.
 
Just as a point I forgot to mention:

In ANY view that is simulated through the drivers eyes NO such artifacts should be visible.
Our human eyes have a wonderfully engineered aperture mechanism that never ever exposes any straight edge to light that could then diffract towards our retina.
We do not see such artificial patterns with our own eyes.

Now when we look through a really nasty, dirty and especially oily and wet sheet of glass (such as a windscreen in an endurance race, all kinds of different optical effects come into play with veiling flare, illumination of transparent residue, optical effects from windscreen films, etc …

None of these are of regular, artificially shaped patterned nature though.
 
Not a fan of those diffraction spikes either. While you can certainly argue they make rF2 look very distinct in that you immediately know you're looking at rF2 (in daylight, there's that turquoise tint to everything to take care of that ;) ), they also make it look very tacky. I would certainly prefer for them to be at least optional.

And speaking of lighting effects I'm not really a fan of either...the fog-like glare you get from headlights of the car behind you or floodlights around the track. I actually thought the race was in the fog the first time I saw that, and I've seen many people think the same thing. It lowers the visibility *way* too much, the effect is way too strong to the point of being very annoying. I understand it is hard to replicate glare in a video game, but drowning the view in white fog is still not the best option IMO.
 
Here is another screenshot I just saw that I think looks great and so much better than what I can achieve with my rF2 settings.

This screenshot actually makes me think something may be wrong with rF2 with my setup:
rf2-sebring-talk-n-drive-jpg.262713


This looks GREAT! So is there perhaps something wrong with my installation that I have these artificial effects and the screenshot above does not?

It is a screenshot from this thread from @Paul Jeffrey :
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/rf2-sebring-talk-n-drive-developer-interview.157369/
 
The diffraction spikes mostly just appear when the headlights are viewed more head on. On this image, the cars are at an angle, so the spikes are not shown. They also fade as the car gets closer to the camera. Or at least that's how it works for me here. But they're still there:

i-BCLsXTj-X2.png


I think it might've been changed when DX11 was made the default or some time after, because I do remember the spikes being a lot more prominent I think.
 
AFAIK ultra PP setting is mainly used as "screenshot mode" among the community. Most of the people who race competitively run no higher than medium, simply because it's such an FPS cost to run PP maxed that it makes no sense. With medium PP you already achieve all the same effects, but less intense, if I remember correctly. It may be that those "good" screenshots above are taken with medium as well.
 
Okay, now I feel dumb, because it apparently really depends on the car, both of the things I've mentioned. It never even occurred to me the glare thing could be car related - I kinda figured it might've been a track specific thing, due to modded tracks maybe using some sort of more simple lighting model, so I did try it with different tracks (and it was still there), but it just didn't occur to me to test more cars. Or rather - I did, but seems like I have somehow picked the cars that did suffer from this, so it seemed like changing cars doesn't change a thing, while it definitely does, the glare is gone with the official GT3 or GTE cars. It can get pretty bad with some mod cars, though, like with this one, which sadly was also my first introduction to night racing in rF2 (and I didn't feel very compelled to do more since, because it basically ruined the race for me):

i-fX9tVq4-X2.png


And it's apparently the same with the diffraction spikes. It just never occurred to me this could be a car related thing, I would've expected the lens flare to be defined globally, not on a per-car basis, so I didn't even check other cars. And yet, again, the diffraction spikes are clearly not there with the official DLC cars.

So I guess I have to apologize for my mistakes. Though, to be honest, it kinda highlights an issue still - that it can be very hard to tell what is the actual cause behind something you experience in the game. And apparently even if you try to not jump to conclusions and blame the game immediatelly, you can still be completely wrong, simply because the reasons might be more complicated than you assumed. And it might perhaps be a good idea to mention these things more prominently, because for example with the glare, I saw Will Marsh of Simracing Paddock mistake it for fog just very recently while previewing the new Sebring on his channel. He obviously had no idea about it being a car issue as well, and seeing it on a channel like his only reinforces the assumption it is indeed an issue with the game in general.
 

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