Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

RCHeliguy · Oct 2, 2023

stigs2cousin said:
It surely differentiates your product from the competition and might be (a little) easier to get by with the Misses.

I can´t imagine someone would exchange a P1x for this things, but maybe a not so technically inclined new customer ??

I never suggested it was a bad business decision. I believe the people at SimLab have decided that this is where they need to go specifically for reasons like differentiation and to make the product look sleeker. I don't think SimLab will have issues selling these.

However, I still consider it less flexible to experimentation and modification.

mechsicko · Oct 5, 2023

Walmis pointed out to me that USB-A is typically used on the host side and suggested USB-C instead. Sounded like a good idea since it buys even more room and easy enough to test out so made a new version once my new sockets showed up. Naturally I'm printing a new iteration of this as well lol. Needs the same recess treatment as the A did for the same reason.. plug sticks out too far otherwise.

My SCS package finally showed up too.. as did the Galaxy black I ordered... still lots to do of course but making my way through the tasks

RCHeliguy · Oct 5, 2023

I love SendCutSend, but the parts always look better after a bit of finish sanding.
You can see the tabs on the long parts to the right. The larger pieces to the left look like they may have had an additional finish step added.

Did you get Galaxy Black in PETG to handle heat and impacts better ?

mechsicko · Oct 5, 2023

RCHeliguy said:
I love SendCutSend, but the parts always look better after a bit of finish sanding.
You can see the tabs on the long parts to the right. The larger pieces to the left look like they may have had an additional finish step added.

Did you get Galaxy Black in PETG to handle heat and impacts better ?

SCS sands/polishes pieces above a certain size by default but below that size or with certain grometry they can get stuck in their automated machine's conveyor system so they leave them raw. The main and pitch-carriage and belt clamp plates met the size but the rocker arms and idler brackets don't so need manual finish.

Picked up Galaxy Black PLA as no one is having heat issues with their Rhino motors, even examples using PLA structurally. Many folks have never even seen the fans come on which happens at 50C, but even if so that's the recommended drying temp for PLA and poses no danger. The enclosure on mine is non structural, basically a plenum/dust cover, however if PLA somehow proves inadaquate other plastics will be used. This use case shouldn't appoach PLA's mechanical limits, and printed internal components for the gimbals will be ABS.

RCHeliguy · Oct 5, 2023

A bit off the topic of the FFB flight stick, which I'm still very excited about.

I thought I would offer a brief follow up to my Sure 846 Gen 2 IEM purchase.

These IEM's have really grown on me. They do not extend to high Treble values, but everything else they do is excellent.

1. They are extremely comfortable and fit into my ears well. With the Comply Pro Medium inserts for my ears they disappear and I don't feel like I'm wearing anything.
They will be a perfect match for the Bigscreen Beyond!
2. The bass response is solid and crisp
3. The midrange is smooth as silk and very realistic sounding.
4. The highs sound smooth as well at least as high as it goes.
5. They are extremely dynamic!

When I say smooth and lifelike, I'm not picking up any unpleasant distortion, and the dynamic range on them is really something. So you don't need to crank the volume up. They are very efficient and I'm typically running them at about 15% volume with my Aero's, but I can hear everything crystal clear.

As far as soundstage and stereo imaging, there are limitations and they won't compare to the 3D directional sound that you get with off ear speakers like the Index has, but I'm getting used to them and am picking up the 3D queues better now even though they are not as obvious. This is primarily for room scale FPS games where I can hear someone coming up behind or off to the side of me.

Anyway, I'm not claiming they are best thing since sliced bread, but to describe them simply by their treble response is missing the big picture. They are an excellent sounding IEM.

RCHeliguy · Oct 6, 2023

I'll add that compared to my AKG-701 open back monitor headphones A/B'd running off my OPPO 105D as the headphone amplifier running FLAC files, that the 846 Gen 2 actually sounded better at the low end than the 701's and up through the mid range. The 701's definitely had more sizzle off the high hats, but for most music I ran through them the 846's really held up well. I think the 846's do benefit from a higher end headphone amp, but I think the $12 USB-C DAC amp I have will be more than enough for VR titles.

Deleted member 197115 · Oct 6, 2023

The smell of FLAK in the morning

RCHeliguy · Oct 6, 2023

You got me! Fixed that.

RCHeliguy · Oct 15, 2023

I decided to try something based on a design from another guy for the Tracker mount for motion compensation. It uses quadcopter dampers. Thanks Bjorn!

So I took my first mount attempt that was hard mounted and added this damping mechanism to it. Fingers crossed it works better than my earlier attempt with Sorbothane.

I had the isolator mechanics backwards. The rubber ends push through the holes so that the tracker is isolated without a through bolt which is likely a key reason why my previous design failed.

The shocks arrive tomorrow. I'll verify things then.

RCHeliguy · Oct 16, 2023

Have the bolt measurements in place now.
The top plate is tall enough for the 1/4 20 by 1/2" bolt to secure the Tracker.
The bottom will take 3 x M5 threaded inserts and the bottom plate is sized thick enough for my M5-12mm bolts.
There are access holes from the top to tighten the M5 bolts and there is a hole through the base all the way up through the center to secure the Tracker.

1. Print parts and melt in 3 x M5 threaded inserts
2. Put all bolts in place. The holes should be just tight enough to hold them.
3. Fit the 6 x Damping rubber shocks through the plates.
4. Bolt the bottom plate to the base with 3 M5 bolts and 4mm allen key.
5. Bolt the Tracker to the top with a 200mm long phillips screwdriver
6. Bolt the base to the chassis with 2 x M8x55mm bolts using 6mm allen key.

Printing the two plates right now. The rubber shocks arrive today. Once I verify everything goes together well, I'll print the base. So hopefully I'll have this on my rig tomorrow.

RCHeliguy · Oct 17, 2023

Clearance and installation should be a breeze

The Tracker screws on snuggly.

The Isolators fit well after squeezing the ends through the smaller holes.
One side done.

Both sides in place.

The base will finish printing around Midnight.

RCHeliguy · Oct 17, 2023

Base printed, threaded inserts melted into place.

Assembled.

Mounted.

Time to test this and see if it works better than what I was using before.

RCHeliguy · Oct 17, 2023

EDIT; I still didn't have it working correctly!
This was a failure for sim racing and rally.

Success!
Motion Compensation is no longer bouncing me around when I hit rumble strips.

And now with motion system brake dive, the dash doesn't move up and down on me so I can dial up that effect more.

RCHeliguy · Oct 21, 2023

VPC Rotor Counter-Balance Kit

★ Compact Counter-Balance Kit ★ Fully Adjustable Force ★ Compatible with all VPC Rotor TCS Bases ★ Provides Unparalleled Axis Smoothness and Precision ★ Easy to Fit

virpil-controls.us.com

I see that Virpil has added an adjustable collective counter-balance kit!
For $25 I like this a lot better than my 3D printed counter weight.

That looks a lot cleaner!

They've also added a new Apache AH-64 collective stick which is a beast! @ 330mm long. It by itself necessitates an adjustable counterbalance because I know my existing weight likely won't be enough weight.

My current Black Hawk collective stick is 207mm and I has a comfortable amount of space., but the Apache stick will require sliding my mount WAY back. I will need to redesign the mount for it, but got to have it

VPC Apache-64 Collective Grip

★ Inspired by the Legendary Apache Attack Helicopter Collective ★ Programmable RGB Backlighting ★ Full Range of Inputs as found on the Real Grip ★ Compatible with all VPC Rotor TCS Bases

virpil-controls.us.com

Clover11 · Oct 23, 2023

RCHeliguy said:
VPC Rotor Counter-Balance Kit

★ Compact Counter-Balance Kit ★ Fully Adjustable Force ★ Compatible with all VPC Rotor TCS Bases ★ Provides Unparalleled Axis Smoothness and Precision ★ Easy to Fit

virpil-controls.us.com

I see that Virpil has added an adjustable collective counter-balance kit!
For $25 I like this a lot better than my 3D printed counter weight.

View attachment 702365

That looks a lot cleaner!

View attachment 702382

They've also added a new Apache AH-64 collective stick which is a beast! @ 330mm long. It by itself necessitates an adjustable counterbalance because I know my existing weight likely won't be enough weight.

My current Black Hawk collective stick is 207mm and I has a comfortable amount of space., but the Apache stick will require sliding my mount WAY back. I will need to redesign the mount for it, but got to have it

VPC Apache-64 Collective Grip

★ Inspired by the Legendary Apache Attack Helicopter Collective ★ Programmable RGB Backlighting ★ Full Range of Inputs as found on the Real Grip ★ Compatible with all VPC Rotor TCS Bases

virpil-controls.us.com

Very cool, looking forward to hearing how you like it. Do you feel like a collective is needed to fly helicopters or is it possible with a throttle?

cnhoff · Oct 23, 2023

If you have a high-quality throttle that's smooth and not sticky, it definitely works well.
I have upgraded to a Virpil collective too though, it is offers more precise control due to the longer throw and of course feels much more real which is more fun to me.

RCHeliguy · Oct 23, 2023

Many helicopters have governors to hold the rotor speed. That makes the twist handle much less important. But even then you can split the flight throttle halves and use one for throttle and one for collective.

It makes sense to see if you like flying helicopters or fly them enough to justify a collective stick.

What Chris said is my experience as well. I flew helicopters with my throttle for a while before getting a collective.

Noctam · Oct 23, 2023

RCHeliguy said:
I never suggested it was a bad business decision. I believe the people at SimLab have decided that this is where they need to go specifically for reasons like differentiation and to make the product look sleeker. I don't think SimLab will have issues selling these.

However, I still consider it less flexible to experimentation and modification.

I've been looking at alternatives in 40x160 profile rigs, now that SimLab made that decision and i would love to have your opinion on the options I found (in Europe) for a build that aims to go in the direction of RCHeliguy's one (versatile and strong):

Motedis DD-Dream Heavy: 500€ bare-bones looking, pedal plate are profiles in 40x80.
SimXPro XT160: 800€ several wheel mounts options + custom pedal plate.
Treq Ace: 765€ (shifter frame included) several wheel mounts options + custom pedal plate.

It seems to me that the main difference is the pedal plate (and the single option when it comes to wheel mounting the Motedis) but I don't know how to judge what would flex or not.
What do you guys think?

RCHeliguy · Oct 23, 2023

That actually explains a lot. SimLab needed to differentiate itself from these competitors that look like very similar designs to the original P1 and P1-X.

The SimXPro looks the best to me. But I think a lot of this depends on what you are planning to do with it.

I also have no idea what the reputation of these companies are. The Motedis solution looks like it's just a plan for off the shelf parts, but it looks crude compared to the others.

I am curious if the SimLab radiused corners are structurally as strong as corner brackets. They are obviously aesthetically pleasing, but I would always be concerned about stripping out the holes tapped into the ends of the profile. I'm guessing that their new custom profile has extra reinforcement in that area to help distribute the load.

RCHeliguy · Oct 28, 2023

I've got a simpler solution that would be much easier to share. Does this look like something anyone would be interested in?

It simply attaches to a chassis using 2x M8x16 bolts that most people have hanging around. The holes are 80mm apart. There is a hole in the bottom that should be large enough for the head of just about any 1/4x20 by 1/2" bolt that holds the Tracker in place.

So once you have squished all the rubber isolation shocks in place, bolt the tracker down and then bolt to the rig. This would fit the top of the uprights if you thread them, or the vertical sides.