My F-GT Tactile Build Thread

[leotkowns]

This will be the start of my tactile build thread. I spent the past months reading over the massive tactile thread as well as reading others' experiences. I have ordered a few things and sent some things back the further I dove into this. I think I will reserve the next spot as my current setup or something to keep the current setup at the top. Current setup at the start:

RIG
Samsung 49" monitor
F-GT rig in GT-ish setup
Fanatec CSL Elite 1.1 base
Fanatec Clubsport Formula V2 wheel
Fanatec inverted V3's
NRG one-piece FRP-311 seat

PC
AMD 3600X
2060 Super GPU
1TB SSD
Sound Blaster Audigy PCIe RX 7.1

TACTILE
Behringer NX3000D (3.5mm to XLR connector)
1x Buttkicker LFE (CHA speak on to banana)
2x Nobsound NS20G
4x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster Exciters
SimHub for gauges and tactile

Something that seems apparent from the pages and pages of threads is the knowledge and passion @Mr Latte has for tactile. I am so impressed with the wealth of information he possesses and the passion he holds for the never-ending journey of tactile perfection. As I have mentioned in other threads I think his excitement for tactile is contagious and I hope to gain his attention and others along with this build. What I have is a start, limited by budget. I do not see this as the end but the beginning of a level of immersion overlooked for motion. I really think this is something every sim racer should be investing in. All this is based purely on what I have read, I have no experience in the tactile world. I hope I'm right.....

Here is where I am at the start. Overall view of my setup. Yes, I need to clean it up, this picture was after a relocation.

First step was to try and isolate the seat. Did some digging and found a cool company based in the states for all things isolation. Vibra Systems has a ton of options and almost everything has some kind of weight rating or a way to measure it. Things I found on amazon and ebay have no weight ratings. Bought a few types but went with these for the seat.

These are 30mm tall and are rated at 320lbs per isolator. Quite beefy considering I weigh 155lbs. Something I did notice right away was they do have a side to side wobble that I initially was worried about but all your forces will be front to back. In those directions, they barely move and are not noticeable driving. Previously I needed to drill holes to mount the NRG seat so I dropped the isolators in there instead of the seat sliders I had.

For isolating the rig from the floor I used air compressor pads I bought from a hardware store. Cut the pads into 4 pieces and put one under each foot of the rig.

Next, I mounted the Buttkicker LFE. Only having the budget for one currently I decided to fabricate a plate with a piece of MDF I had leftover from a projector screen build. I did make it so I can mount one in the middle or run two next to each other if needed. This could also be transferred to a metal plate at a later date.

The Nobsound amps arrived yesterday but unfortunately, the exciters are still in the mail so the install will have to wait.
I did get the NX3000D hooked up. I connected the 3.5mm plug to the "front" output on the sound card and the TIP and RING XLR connector to CHA and CHB input. Speak on connector is attached to CHA output and has banana plugs for the LFE. I realized early on this is a fairly uncommon setup. I ended up choosing stereo for configuration inside the NX3000. I have also setup SimHub for mono currently. As far as the amp goes I set the crossover to cut anything over 90hz. Thats about all I have done as the rest is intimidating. I will say at this point I am getting a bit over my head and here is where I want to reach out to the community.

Plans for the next week
-Mount exciters to seat (2 either side, 2 upper or mid back)
-Setup nobsound amps with sound card

Questions for the community
-What reading would you recommend to better understand hertz and frequency in more laymen's terms?
-Not opposed to 6 exciters for the seat but will start with these 4, if you had 4 would you put them there?
-Can someone link a setup guide for running 1 LFE with the NX3000 or recommend settings here?
-Did I connect 1 LFE correctly?

I will update when more parts come in. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide and I hope in some way I can pay it forward to someone thinking of tactile with a similar setup.

 

[leotkowns]

Current setup as of 5/11/20

TACTILE
Behringer NX3000D (3.5mm to XLR connector)
1x Buttkicker LFE (CHA speak on to banana)
2x Nobsound NS20G
4x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster Exciters
SimHub for gauges and tactile

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi, to help you might be better to setup the amp in "Dual Mono" mode as this lets you have independent settings for each channel.

To understand Hz then you would be as well to connect your BK up to perhaps a phone/tablet and use some of the websites or apps "tone generators".
One way to learn is to feel them, I would also suggest looking on YT for videos about it.

General audio we hear is rated from 20Hz - 20Khz
Bass is primarily from 1-200Hz so a very small proportion of the audio spectrum.
Most budget tactile will only perform well @ 40-100Hz some not even beyond 80Hz, they will struggle to produce the energy bandwidth that low frequencies contain.

The Large BK models however are excellent for this deeper rich bass and in particular, we can use 5Hz-25Hz for very unique sensations we can use in effects creation. With lower bass frequencies a single Hz can produce a rather different sensation.

Some other members have the same amp and large LFE, so I am hopeful they may offer you amp profiles you could load for the NX3000D.

 

[leotkowns]

Evening all,
So today the exciters showed up. I was able to mount these on the seat where I thought would work the best for having 4 of them. If I add two more later I can get the upper shoulders.

Please excuse the wiring. I didn't realize my soldering iron was not at home with me. I ended up using these hideous connectors as a temporary setup. I will cut these off, solder and shrink wrap when I get my iron back.
Setup both amps. Not sure where to put these yet, with wiring they are oddly shaped. Troubleshooted for awhile as only 2 exciters worked on all 8 test channels. Turns out inside the creative software it was configured for headphones. Set it up for 5.1 and was able to get all but 2 to work. I labeled the 3 that did work so instead of saying Channel 1, 2, 3 I labeled where they are on the rig. Sitting here now writing this I think what I need to do is configure it for 7.1 in the creative application as well as windows control panel. I bet that will get the other two exciters working. I most likely have one of the 3.5mm aux cables plugged into a port that only works in 7.1. I will report back about that.
At this point I feel I am all ready to dive into the profiles and start splitting up effects to the right channels. I would love to just load a profile in and see what all the settings look like and tweak from that. A baseline would be great to look at. Please feel free to PM if you want to share or know where I could source profiles. Stay tuned.

 

[Mr Latte]

Well done sir...

If I may, I will add some information to this thread, if you want it removed I will but I would like to attempt to help inform people kinda what all this is about in what you have put faith in. So far I believe several members may have bought into the hardware, this idea promotes but none have really offered a thread of their own to share with others and give their own views and opinions on.

This is a journey, a quite costly one with risks and uncertainties as it differs from the norm. I appreciate your kind words given and I like your willingness to take it on board and readiness to experiment and grow your own tactile experiences.

Its, excellent to have members of the forums that normally do not post much come forward or who are new to the forums as recently we have been seeing some pop-up whilst delving over that pit of a thread (the tactile discussion thread is) perhaps seeking information on tactile. I have been busy with a few members recently all getting into this and looking to help with effects testing and exploration.

I really enjoy seeing people share their rigs in detail like this and especially if it's related to installing the tactile. It helps build interest in the community and inspire others. It's also nice to see the methods members use and sometimes little touches they apply or in how they get creative regards their build/installation.


Your Selected Hardware:

TACTILE
Behringer NX3000D (3.5mm to XLR connector)
1x Buttkicker LFE (CHA speak on to banana)
2x Nobsound NS20G
4x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster Exciters
SimHub for gauges and tactile


So you have chosen this concept or path I recommend which does things rather different and combines two types of transducers for specific purposes.

Excellent, let's look at what we have with this combination so far.

In your current configuration we have 4 channels to place effects with the exciters to the rear/sides of the seat and a large BK LFE for the low bass. This will give the user two things that many getting into tactile immersion miss. This is having direct energy going into an isolated seat and you have hardware that will achieve the full bass range of 1-200Hz.


What does that mean?
It means you can experience multichannel effects operation in the seat for different effects but importantly also the following important factor. This is having effects created that can utilize the very lowest bass rumble and sub-harmonic undertone frequencies. All the way to the highest zing/tingle sensations of upper bass and harmonic overtones.

In simple terms, with this combo, the effects you now create with Simhub can give the full bass characteristics in how audio works with whatever effects the user prefers to use.

Yeah but hold on, some background is perhaps needed here as this seems odd.
Indeed as what kinda became the defacto thing to do with tactile in recent years and readers here no doubt will have either done already or seen others do in the past was to go with 4x units to be applied to the corner regions of the rig.


4 Corners Tactile:
Typically this may have been done with a limited budget with 4x BassBumps or other budget Dayton transducers, sometimes with units like the Mini ButtKicker series or even TST models. Most, however, entering into tactile do this with using models of transducers in that $20/$100 range but In some extreme cases, people went with up to 4x of the largest BK models being bolted to a rig like even Barry Rowland once had.

The first point to note, as a choice of installation, the corner approach can be a gross waste of the tactile energy regardless of how powerful the units used are. What it also misses to bring is the distribution of the multichannel effects to the seat as something we can now exclusively do with Simhub and no other tactile software I am aware of supports its range of features and control.

Further to that depending on the transducers used none of them achieve as a single unit what we would term an ideal performance for the full bass range matching the performance that we can achieve with what this concept recommends. The largest Buttkickers tend to not work so well with higher frequencies. Additionally, some budget-priced tactile are so limited in only offering decent performance for the 40-80Hz range.

This then is evident in many people's effects they use. As repeatedly for effects, most will fall into this limited but best scenario frequency, range regardless of what tactile software they are running. Stop for a second, take this in as that is only a 40Hz variation in frequencies to place multiple types of effects over.

So its clearly evident that a concept that promotes having and using hardware that accomplishes practically 5x this amount with 1-200Hz in variation will bring much more scope in the feel and sensations we can apply to our own favorite effects.



Concept Targeted Benefits Overview:

• Direct Seat Installation & Energy Transfer
• Multichannel Effects To Specific Body Zones (expandable to more channels)
• Full Bass Range Achieved
• DSP Crossover & PEQ Control

So Why This Now = Simhub & New / Exciting Features
With Simhubs features, only fairly recently have I been able to share the concept that this installation is going to highlight. I spent several months in 2019 on testing possibilities the software brings. So I welcome the OP and others coming with their own threads who are free to openly share their opinions and impressions this offers. What it does need is more joint effort working in effects to determine how/what different people may want these to be used or even feel.

Also in offering a way a user can get into tactile affordably but expand it towards something greater. This includes how effects are being created and for various configurations that can be mono or stereo based. The user will have control as to how the effects created are distributed over their seat and pedals.

The intention with the effects being created is that they can work well on only the affordable exciters and for users with 2-8 installed on a seat. Yet additional "Specific Effect" layers are then also being developed that can be added for BK units with improved lower bass output. So owners of smaller Buttkickers to the largest models will be able to achieve well-crafted effects using both types of transducers. People obviously with the larger Buttkicker models will achieve more of the full potential immersion the effects are created for.

* I am sharing some of my own effects work with people via PM, some folk are quite active in helping/giving feedback, so I tend to give them more updated effects to try. My own effects/many months of testing are created using ACC and primary feedback is centered around doing tests focused on ACC. This doesn't suit everyone.


What About Pedal Tactile?
It is possible to bring tactile also to pedals, this can be done in more than one way as I can share with the OP here but I see it more important to achieve the full bass response in the seat first and have the multichannel for different body regions as a way to experience tactile that cant be achieved with the traditional approaches that are used.


Any questions before proceeding?

 

[leotkowns]

I will need to do some troubleshooting. I set the card up for 7.1, Windows has it configured for 7.1. But channels 3, 5,6,7, and 8 indicate an output but nothing from the exciters. I do hear a faint click that seems to be tied to when I hit the test now buttons but it is not consistent. I will provide another source I think and do some testing. Starting to wonder if this one amp is defective.

 

[Mr Latte]

Those settings all seem correct but update to the newest version
Try testing gear effect on track in sim over the individual channels and set your amp volumes.

 

[leotkowns]

One of the Nobsound amps will not play audio out. Tested multiple scenarios and sources. Other works in all scenarios but this one will not play. Waiting now on a replacement from Amazon. One good thing about using them is the no hassle return process, don’t have to wait for your return to get there before they ship out a replacement. Hopefully early next week I will have a better update. Till then....

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks got your PM and will get you some settings for the NXD amp, as mentioned in it once you feel your way around the Simhub software I will get you some effects to suit the LFE and exciters.

We could use the temporary loss in the two channels not being active as an advantage. This way you will have time to feel what only two channels in the seat offers compared to the four and be able to switch what 2 units you use (sides/back) to discover how each feels.

 

[leotkowns]

I like that. Being how they are placed I will swap the wiring to have the sides working as well as the LFE. I can do that this evening. Good call.

 

[juanmoorethyme]

Hello OP -- very interested in hearing how things have progressed! Do you have an update? Will you be setting the seat transducers to different channels? Or will they all be receiving the same signal?

Not to go off topic, but I recently purchased 6 Aurasound AST-2B4 units with the idea of putting one in each corner and then one under the seat and another on the pedal tray. This thread is making me rethink that approach -- perhaps putting one in each corner, 4-6 smaller DAEX32EP-4 exciters ON the seat and figure the rest out.

Thanks in advance!

 

[DanStealth]

Any idea how we can mount a 100x100 vesa mount shakers to the corners? Im currently using the buttkicker adapter that comes with it, and got a Vesa pole mount adapter to add a dayton shaker, but i'd like to add 4 more to each corner.

Any ideas?