PC2 PC2 vs. iRacing -D'oh

Ryan Soucy · May 14, 2021

Boy am I dumb. I have on occasion (once every couple of years) subscribed to iRacing to practice a track I will be racing on IRL (I rent an FVee occasionally). So, I'm racing at Watkins Glen next month, figured I'd re-up for 3 months, but then I needed to buy Watkins Glen, so I added two more tracks to get the discount.

Well, when I get into iRacing (with its terrible UI) and load up Watkins (with its ABYSMAL loading times) I find out that the real track is updated and has been completely resurfaced compared to the digital version. Why did iRacing not classify this as [Legacy] and charge less for it, its essentially useless for the purposes that iRacing is supposed to be so good at. The cars I use (the SRF) is dogpoo, the track does not portray realism, I've essentially wasted $70. At least they have AI racing. I was hoping to do a ton of AI races to prep, but the content is so disappointing. And the loading times...

So why is this in a Project Cars thread? Well, I don't think I have the mental wellness to post in iRacing and suffer the abuse. But more importantly, I have always liked the Lotus FF car as a platform for testing as well. Lap times would be pretty similar, the FVee has more grip but the FF has more power. And I had TOTALLY forgotten PC2 has the Glen.

After banging my head against the steering wheel with iRacing I popped into PC2 to lap the Glen in the FF and was completely surprised. The FFB feels better, the car has similar characteristics to the FV and the track layout is close enough to be totally convincing as a learning tool. Better yet, the surface isn't scarred with concrete patches that I won't have to deal with when I go there next month. Sure, the colors are off and I notice that the marshall posts are in different places (after working the corners I take note of those things now), but I can't be certain that they haven't moved in real life and iRacing has those out of date also. And menu music!!!

Yes menu music!!

Little things like this, loading times, setup menus, game configurations, having to roll to a stop to return to the pits make iRacing such a frustrating place to be. So much crap that hasn't changed in 9 years and should have. I want to give PC2 the credit it deserves for being a credible sim with the most interesting content and a place where I've happily spent the most hours (that Steam tracks, and followed by PC1). I know most iRacing elitists will scoff and laugh, but I only feel bad that they haven't been able to extract the same experience, it's been a good one.

Now I have to stew on that $70 I wasted as I load up on FF races at the Glen in PC2.

andrea1978 · May 14, 2021

I have had a similar experience with rFactor2 and ACC. It's amazing how the opinion of many hardcore players is so critical of PC2. I can understand that there are elements of interest in rFactor2 / ACC / iRacing, but to say that they are unquestionably better is unrealistic and often the result of prejudice.
And if we talk about VR ... well there are no stories, PC2 is objectively better (remember how since its debut it has been considered a reference point for VR in absolute terms, not just for driving games). Fluidity and quality beyond parameters. It is true that to get the best out of PC2 you need a bit of effort: choosing the right mod for the FFB, for the grid, for the weather, for the skins ... nothing too difficult but that can pull a little ' back.
Then, in my opinion, the player's background and what he expects in terms of driving are very important. Personally, coming from GTR2, I immediately felt at ease with PC2, I perceived how physics was developed by some of the same programmers. iRacing is often praised, but it is easy to find on the net comments from several real drivers (e.g. from Indycar) who, during the pandemic, tried their hand at it and found it unrealistic especially as regards the possibility of recovering the car: e.g.they reported that in reality it is much easier to get out of oversteer than it is in iRacing.

mesfigas · May 14, 2021

personaly i had a lot of fun playing pc2 with car track combo like DAYTONa and prototype cars
they felt very cool espeacially a modofied FFB preset like popsRacerFFB 2.14.2021
pc2 is a good game and it doesnt have to be like rf2 or ACC to be fun

Ryan Soucy · May 16, 2021

mesfigas said:
personaly i had a lot of fun playing pc2 with car track combo like DAYTONa and prototype cars
they felt very cool espeacially a modofied FFB preset like popsRacerFFB 2.14.2021
pc2 is a good game and it doesnt have to be like rf2 or ACC to be fun

My PC background rotates through screen shots I've taken in sims. Most are PC2. You mentioned Protos at Daytona. Every January I'll do a 25 minute round the clock race with GTPs and GTOs. There is hardly anything more immersive.

Ryan Soucy · May 16, 2021

andrea1978 said:
I have had a similar experience with rFactor2 and ACC. It's amazing how the opinion of many hardcore players is so critical of PC2. I can understand that there are elements of interest in rFactor2 / ACC / iRacing, but to say that they are unquestionably better is unrealistic and often the result of prejudice.
And if we talk about VR ... well there are no stories, PC2 is objectively better (remember how since its debut it has been considered a reference point for VR in absolute terms, not just for driving games). Fluidity and quality beyond parameters. It is true that to get the best out of PC2 you need a bit of effort: choosing the right mod for the FFB, for the grid, for the weather, for the skins ... nothing too difficult but that can pull a little ' back.
Then, in my opinion, the player's background and what he expects in terms of driving are very important. Personally, coming from GTR2, I immediately felt at ease with PC2, I perceived how physics was developed by some of the same programmers. iRacing is often praised, but it is easy to find on the net comments from several real drivers (e.g. from Indycar) who, during the pandemic, tried their hand at it and found it unrealistic especially as regards the possibility of recovering the car: e.g.they reported that in reality it is much easier to get out of oversteer than it is in iRacing.

Right there with you. I've uninstalled ACC b/c I got frustrated just looking at the icon. It was okay, not much better than everything else on my PC. I've kept rF2 on my computer solely b/c the guys I've raced with for 12 years just switched from AMS to rF2. I tested the mod they used and thought it was not as good as the '70 WSC cars in PC2, haven't raced with them this season.

Ironically I started doing a GTR2 season last year, that's still incredible. Maybe the physics aren't "correct" but its so raceable. Meaning you can really push in a race and its not all or nothing.

Ryan Soucy · May 16, 2021

One more reason to get incredible mad at iRacing. I just remembered that RaceRoom has a Watkins version. I just downloaded it and its terrific. The signage is spot on to a race I watched last fall, that's going to be incredibly helpful. Too bad there's not a great car like an Fvee to practice with.

Another thing: a while back I bought 5000 vRP for RRRE for less than $50. Not sure how much less, but I followed some instructions I found online and got the best discount. I went to the store to buy Watkins Glen and saw it was $6, 1/2 of iRacing. But I also noticed that they were offering the American Tracks pack for $5.20, and because of previous purchases, the only tracks I didn't own were Daytona (another $6) and WG, so I could BOTH for less than the cost of 1. Not only that, when I added it to the cart, it charged me 471 vRP, so EVEN if I paid $1 for each vRP, they would have given me a killer discount. But being that I paid less that $50 for 5000 vRP, this double discount is incredible.

Cote Dazur · May 17, 2021

Ryan Soucy said:
(I rent an FVee occasionally)

From your perspective, with the hardware you are using, which formula Vee is in your opinion closer to the real thing? The one in AMS, ASM2 or the one in RFactor2.

Ryan Soucy · May 17, 2021

I'll claim ignorance on the rFactor2 one, I only did a couple laps on it. It felt just like the AMS one I thought, but there were lighting issues where there was a terrible glare off of the bodywork that blinded you. It wasn't that much improved over AMS to make me suffer through rF2's quirks.

AMS and AMS2 have a great sound and the cockpit is pretty accurate. There is an issue where in the US, we race 1.2 liter VWs on skinny slick tires, whereas Brazil and Australia race 1.6 liters VWs on street radials. So we have higher cornering speeds and less puff at the end of the straights. Also, the Vees I've driven have synchro gearboxes which don't require a blip on downshift whereas the physics engines in AMS and AMS2 require a blip. Yes, I could turn off the blip requirement I believe, but I'd have to toggle it on and off when I switch cars. So I am disappointed that these realistic sims miss this aspect of reality. It does shake my confidence in other aspects.

I will say that the iRacing Spec Racer Ford is a pretty good proxy for the FVs. They corner well, they have more power but they weight a lot, so they don't feel that much faster. You just gear them down so the shift point is about the same as the Vee; since we use only 3rd and 4th.

My strategy this time around is to drive FAST and preferably twitchy cars on the Glen so that when I get there, it'll be like everything is in slow motion. I also need to be better with looking in the mirrors since there are probably going to be lots of drafting battles. I don't think the correlations b/w any of these sims (in my home equipment) is high enough to translate one to one. But working on my vision, looking down the road, hand speed, that will be important and practicable. I kind of wish I had VR. There was a VR arcade about 5 minutes away from me and they had motion rigs and were using Pcars 2. They would let me go in and pick whatever combo I wanted to as long as the race fit in the time slot. That was fun, but COVID put them out of business. Fingers crossed they try it again now that we're reopening in CT.