[Poll] When racing historic cars and a period appropriate track is not available...

[Shovas]

In creating SHO PnG Retrofit, I've found some period-appropriate tracks are not available and I'm not sure what's the best option.

So, what do you think: If there's a historic championship that includes a location where a period-appropriate track (ie. within the decade) is not available, what's your preference?

 

[Shovas]

Thanks for the votes. Very valuable info!

 

[MJQT]

This poll stimulated another related question in my head. Suppose you have a track where mods exist, but not for the period-correct layout.

1. Do you choose a mod for a different layout (possibly from a different era) of that particular track?
2. Or a mod for a different track (perhaps not on the calendar for the series that year) that existed in the precise correct time period?

As an illustration, one example I recently ran into this way is 1988 DTM and Zolder. In the 1980s, Zolder had high kerbs (like everywhere at the time) and a deeper first corner with a profile closer to the current day pit exit lane. No GTR2 or rF1 mods for this era of Zolder exists: only GPC79 (which lacks the Villeneuve chicane) or GT Legends conversions of 2005-era Zolder (with modern sponsor boards, low-profile kerbs, and the new T1). Which to choose? One of those Zolder mods? Or do you choose another circuit with a mod from that year e.g. a track from the carrera4 1988 F1 trackpack?

 

[Shovas]

Which to choose? One of those Zolder mods? Or do you choose another circuit with a mod from that year e.g. a track from the carrera4 1988 F1 trackpack?

Tough one. Personally, I prefer era ambience over absolute course accuracy. I really, really dislike the idea of using tracks too far removed from the era, like using a 2000s track for a 1960s championship, to the point that's where I draw the line. For me it's about the feeling of being there and modern tracks take me right out of it.

 

[jgf]

I will opt for an earlier version of the same track; if none available I will use a later version if the layout is the same. Some tracks, such as Road America, have not changed layout at all over the years, just scenery and TSOs; while others, like Silverstone, change so often you almost need to specify the particular year.

OTOH (furtively glances around for the reality cops), some tracks I just do not like so have no qualms about replacing them with something more "fun". I hate street courses, particularly Monaco, an anachronistic joke unsuitable for anything over 100hp; I dislike airfield courses that use runways, though grudgingly tolerate Sebring. And despise add-on chicanes, so always use "original" versions of tracks like Monza, Silverstone, or Suzuka. (I even have F1 races at Talladega and NASCARE at Nurburgring.)

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Tough one. Presonally, I prefer era ambience over absolute course accuracy. I really, really dislike the idea of using tracks too far removed from the era, like using a 2000s track for a 1960s championship, to the point that's where I draw the line. For me it's about the feeling of being there and modern tracks take me right of it.

100% agree here. Another big problem is 90s (even 80s!) cars using LCD screens from 2004 I really wish there was more passion for quality over quantity, quality including physical and visual accuracy. Just because you have era accurate skins, does not make it era accurate motorsport event.

 

[jgf]

Tough one. Presonally, I prefer era ambience over absolute course accuracy. I really, really dislike the idea of using tracks too far removed from the era, like using a 2000s track for a 1960s championship, to the point that's where I draw the line. For me it's about the feeling of being there and modern tracks take me right of it.

Absolutely. In P&G I hate using a track with TV towers and jumbotrons and catch fencing and brightly painted kerbs....

 

[Shovas]

Based on the votes, it seems most people are willing to race on generally era appropriate tracks.

In my BSCC 1960s Championships I'll have to use a Brands Hatch that spans 60s-70s (EarlyBrands), Mallory Park 1970, Silverstone 1975...

And it looks like I'll have to check Croft 90s and see if it clashes too much.

There's also a non-specific Thruxton I'll have to check.

If I don't make compromises like these then I can end up losing quite a number of locations and races in a championship. Maybe even up to half if I was really strict - and that's just based on the 1961 BSCC.

 

[jgf]

There is a 70Silverstone by motorfx, a complete rebuild of the GPL track.

The only Thruxton I've found is the TOCA2 track converted to SCGT converted to GTL converted to GTR2 (the latter by philrob).

 

[MJQT]

The only Thruxton I've found is the TOCA2 track converted to SCGT converted to GTL converted to GTR2 (the latter by philrob).

There should also be the rFactor Thruxton version by lasercutter converted to GTR2 by someone (surely it's been done). I remember that mod, because IIRC it was one of the first (if not the first) to use a non-visual high-poly detailed track mesh to give the road surface a more detailed feeling. And according to racingcircuits.info Thruxton hasn't changed its layout since 1968. So switch out modern signage for historic sponsors and you'd be well on your way

 

[Shovas]

There should also be the rFactor Thruxton version by lasercutter converted to GTR2 by someone (surely it's been done). I remember that mod, because IIRC it was one of the first (if not the first) to use a non-visual high-poly detailed track mesh to give the road surface a more detailed feeling. And according to racingcircuits.info Thruxton hasn't changed its layout since 1968. So switch out modern signage for historic sponsors and you'd be well on your way

Ah, yes, found it on esport-racing.de. Looks like quite a modern year. I'm using the festbierbude.de version which when I drove it looked like it could fill in for a 60s/70s track.

Since I have no track editing skills I'd be super happy to see people create historic versions of tracks from these existing tracks that we could then swap in when I've had to rely on period incorrect tracks.

 

[Shovas]

There is a 70Silverstone by motorfx, a complete rebuild of the GPL track.

The only Thruxton I've found is the TOCA2 track converted to SCGT converted to GTL converted to GTR2 (the latter by philrob).

View attachment 578995

I'll compare this to the current 75 version I'm using. They're both Motorfx (Ken?) unless I'm mistaken so I could use either.

 

[jgf]

There are several rfactor tracks I'd like in GTR2, notably the Gesamtstrecke, but I've yet to find any conversions .... if they exist.

 

[jgf]

...

Since I have no track editing skills I'd be super happy to see people create historic versions of tracks from these existing tracks that we could then swap in when I've had to rely on period incorrect tracks.

Same here, I couldn't create a track at gunpoint. But I've been told removal of TSOs is a simple matter of deleting the reference to it in the track's scn file. I've not tried this yet.

 

[MJQT]

Same here, I couldn't create a track at gunpoint. But I've been told removal of TSOs is a simple matter of deleting the reference to it in the track's scn file. I've not tried this yet.

Same here. Don't even own 3DSimEd, actually (although I'll soon change that to add Reiza shaders to AMS tracks). But track building and editing is a skill I'd love to learn.

One thing I have learned is that in rFactor files, replacing textures is as easy as unpacking a MAS file and replacing the current DDS image of the texture (e.g. a sponsor board) with another DDS file of the same name with your desired texture replacement. This is useful, for example, in swapping out modern ad boards with historic ones. Given the shared isiMotor2 foundations of GTR2 and rFactor, I assume it's similarly straightforward in GTR2, although I'm admittedly unsure of the correct SimBin file format names.

 

[jgf]

Yes, graphics edits are relatively simple; unless involving transparencies (I'm still trying to remove the windshield banner from my P&G IROC car, lol). And having no luck editing the steering wheel textures for an N2k3 mod, think it has to do with this being an animated texture.

I tried creating tracks for N2k3 using the "Sandbox", which is Sierra's track creation software; but it is buggy, prone to crash, and has no documentation at all, so eventually you spend all your time pestering people in forums, "How do i do this?", "How do I fix that?", "What does this error mean?". Would be simpler to give one of them the layout and pay them to finish it.

Yet that is a magnitude better than GPL - track design via spreadsheet.

I have 3DSimEd, but ran into the same issue as Sandbox - nothing is intuitive and documentation is sparse, and I tired of haunting the forums for assistance.

But this can be good, if it were too easy we would be inundated with mediocre tracks; so I gladly leave it to those with more aptitude (it's doubtful there are any with less), and at my age i'd rather be running laps than trying to decipher why putting a tree over there causes a CTD.

 

[jgf]

... Another big problem is 90s (even 80s!) cars using LCD screens from 2004...

Because it is relatively simple to position one LCD screen on the dash and you're done. Analog gauges must be individually placed, with x-y coordinates for the gauge, the pivot point of the needle, and the range of movement.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Because it is relatively simple to position one LCD screen on the dash and you're done. Analog gauges must be individually placed, with x-y coordinates for the gauge, the pivot point of the needle, and the range of movement.

of course it is easy, that's pretty obvious. But that's not only about gauges vs LCD themselves. Even LCDs do not match the ones from real life (like, I can't imagine some 94 cars using LCDs from 2004, I am pretty sure same screen models didn't even exist). It is a lot of work to recreate things accurately, first one needs to research, then create matching LCD. That's a lot of work, but to me that's what sets aside "quckly done and call it a day" vs brilliant work.

In my plugin, I introduced multiple LCD elements missing in vanilla game, such as:

* Enhanced Motec:
• Per-wheel lockup/spin warning indicator
• Water temperature indicator
• Oil temperature indicator
• ABS aid level indicator
• Traction Control aid level indicator
• DRS state LED

* Additional Data pages:
• Tire Wear page
• Tire Pressure page
• Multi-class aware position Info page
• Multi-class aware gap behind/ahead page
• Personal Best/Class Best Delta page

Additional data pages are a bit of cheating really, most series would prohibit such data, but they started as a thanks to one modder who helped me tremendously in my effort. There is a number of series using those enhacements (search "for Crew Chief" at Trackaholics if interested).

if anyone needs more (with the goal of recreating reality more accurately) - please PM me.

 

[jgf]

There was a mod ages ago where someone recreated, within the limitations of GTR2, about a half dozen real LCD displays, replacing most of those in the default cars.