Powerful DD wheelbases operating at low forces?

[Deleted member 1066209]

Hi all.

I've been itching to upgrade my wheelbase lately. I'm currently using a T300, which outputs 3.9Nm of maximum torque. I think the T300 is strong enough when using smaller rims, but do wish it was stronger when using larger and heavier rims. I suppose I'd be pleased with a wheelbase sporting around 6-8Nm.

I've been considering upgrading to a direct drive wheelbase, with my main considerations being the VRS DFP or the SC2 Sport. The other DD wheelbases just don't interest me as much as these two.

Would I be foolish to purchase a strong direct drive wheelbase, only to limit it to 6-8Nm of overall torque? Would it provide an advantage over something like a Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer, when limited to the same overall torque (6Nm)?

Let's assume budget isn't an issue. I primarily simrace for competition, and I don't care much for immersion. I'd like to improve my ability to drive at the limit, without necessitating heavy ffb forces (My lap times are slower when I crank the force feedback up too much!).

Yes, I can understand how this may be an extremely silly question, but it has been gnawing at my mind lately. I figured your collective wisdom can help me settle this.

Thanks!

 

[Michael Krone]

Hi all.



Would I be foolish to purchase a strong direct drive wheelbase, only to limit it to 6-8Nm of overall torque?

Thanks!

No, not at all. Most people will say a better wheel base wont make you faster but it did for me. Keeping a "lesser wheel" at max force all the time, you lose a ton of detail which you will gain back with a wheel capable of more power and speed, even if you limit it to a low force.

Ive recently went thru all the big DD wheels and stuck with the SC2 Pro. Best there is at that price point IMO.

 

[Deleted member 1066209]

Thank you for your reassurance @Michael Krone . I'm glad to hear that you've gotten faster with it, and I hope I can enjoy the same result. I'll consider the SC2 Pro.

 

[Leynad777]

Thank you for your reassurance @Michael Krone . I'm glad to hear that you've gotten faster with it, and I hope I can enjoy the same result. I'll consider the SC2 Pro.

I was switching between VRS DFP and SC2 Pro for about 8 months and almost sold the SC2 Pro, only the latest software-updates changed my mind. Till the July-update 2022 I found the VRS much better because it was more tame with far less oscillation, but better road-feel than the SC2 Pro running 15 Nm (+70% in game) and low dampening.

They've fixed it now, but I still think you need more physical strength to control it's temper and it's more of a beast that I got accustomed to. The reduction in torque never felt like it was a real limiter before the updates and it tried to hurt me very often. The VRS is less overwhelming even without dampening, provides a good FFB-load in corners without kicking out, but delivered same lap-times at the end, probably with a bit less afford. I could imagine that many people prefer it's FFB nature. But like I said, the latest True Drive updates made the SC2 Pro more similar to the VRS probably because I told them I prefer it by a lot.

So I would not recommend the Pro to anybody who doesn't even want to use half of it's torque. VRS or Sprint are IMO the better choices for you and once you've bought a decent QR plus wheel-side that doesn't depend on the awful hub they sell, they are not that different in price anymore.

 

[wolit]

I was switching between VRS DFP and SC2 Pro for about 8 months and almost sold the SC2 Pro, only the latest software-updates changed my mind. Till the July-update 2022 I found the VRS much better because it was more tame with far less oscillation, but better road-feel than the SC2 Pro running 15 Nm (+70% in game) and low dampening.

They've fixed it now, but I still think you need more physical strength to control it's temper and it's more of a beast that I got accustomed to. The reduction in torque never felt like it was a real limiter before the updates and it tried to hurt me very often. The VRS is less overwhelming even without dampening, provides a good FFB-load in corners without kicking out, but delivered same lap-times at the end, probably with a bit less afford. I could imagine that many people prefer it's FFB nature. But like I said, the latest True Drive updates made the SC2 Pro more similar to the VRS probably because I told them I prefer it by a lot.

So I would not recommend the Pro to anybody who doesn't even want to use half of it's torque. VRS or Sprint are IMO the better choices for you and once you've bought a decent QR plus wheel-side that doesn't depend on the awful hub they sell, they are not that different in price anymore.

Hi, thank you very much for the info.
I'm also planning to buy a VRS Pro.
I'd like to know something more about the hub adapter. Do you mean the black aluminium hub adapter which VRS directly sells? May it be used or is it very problematic? What's exactly the problem with it?
What's your advice, then? Which hub adapter is the best for the VRS Pro?
Thanks in advance,

regards

 

[Leynad777]

Hi, thank you very much for the info.
I'm also planning to buy a VRS Pro.
I'd like to know something more about the hub adapter. Do you mean the black aluminium hub adapter which VRS directly sells? May it be used or is it very problematic? What's exactly the problem with it?
What's your advice, then? Which hub adapter is the best for the VRS Pro?
Thanks in advance,

regards

Yes, the VRS-hub doesn't look and feel convincing even it does the job first. You need to fix the two screws with high torque to prevent it from slipping and it only has aluminium threads. If you fix it more than a few times they will fail or even before that. Really a fail in my opinion.

There are two alternatives I know. The SRC-QR is okay, but not if you want to switch wheels regularly or use more than one or two. It's quite stuck similar to the Fanatec QR (without the flex) even if this lever-bar is open and together with an IMO mandatory extension for each wheel you look at over 100€ per wheelside QR. The other one is this SC2-adapter. No experience with it and don't even know how exactly it works, but looks more like steel from the shaft-ring and SC2 wheelside QR have an extension already for 69€ or 45€ without extension. If you put a bit grease on the base-side so the other part doesn't get stuck, it's a very easy to use and reliable QR. In Barry's review video I saw an alternative hub adapter out of steel, but couldn't find it.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

If you are talking Quick releases, Xero-Play is probably the best at the moment, followed by cheaper but still excellent Buchfink Q1R (use this one with SC2 myself).
And this is probably that Barry's video you mentioned.

 

[Leynad777]

If you are talking Quick releases, Xero-Play is probably the best at the moment, followed by cheaper but still excellent Buchfink Q1R (use this one with SC2 myself).
And this is probably that Barry's video you mentioned.

No, I meant the VRS review and a different 70 mm hub he puts on the VRS, but now I know how the SC2 adapter for the VRS (22 mm) works. Regarding QR: There are the two systems you've mentioned, the D3-Spec that Moza and SimXperience are using and the SC2 QR that are 100% reliable and easy to use to my knowledge. Since the SC2 wheelside QR has the lowest costs including extension, there is IMO not enough reason using anything else. Just grease it once.

 

[wolit]

Yes, the VRS-hub doesn't look and feel convincing even it does the job first. You need to fix the two screws with high torque to prevent it from slipping and it only has aluminium threads. If you fix it more than a few times they will fail or even before that. Really a fail in my opinion.

There are two alternatives I know. The SRC-QR is okay, but not if you want to switch wheels regularly or use more than one or two. It's quite stuck similar to the Fanatec QR (without the flex) even if this lever-bar is open and together with an IMO mandatory extension for each wheel you look at over 100€ per wheelside QR. The other one is this SC2-adapter. No experience with it and don't even know how exactly it works, but looks more like steel from the shaft-ring and SC2 wheelside QR have an extension already for 69€ or 45€ without extension. If you put a bit grease on the base-side so the other part doesn't get stuck, it's a very easy to use and reliable QR. In Barry's review video I saw an alternative hub adapter out of steel, but couldn't find it.

Hi, thank you very much for your recommendations.
I have already converted 2 Thrustmaster rims (Open Wheel F1 and Sparco R383) for being used on OSW (electronically and mechanically).
I will use simple € 18 QRs from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.de/Triclicks-Universal-Steering-Release-Sparco/dp/B076ZW24WK/ref=mp_s_a_1_18?crid=3KZE6F2YQBR06&keywords=lenkrad+schnellverschluss+schnellverschluss&qid=1676936989&sprefix=lenkrad+quick+release%2Caps%2C246&sr=8-18

1 piece for each rim; and I plan buying and converting 1 more TM rim, with which I will make 2 rims (separating the button box from the actual rim, and buying a mod from acelith).
Apart from all these details, I just need to have a 6 x 70 mm holes pattern on the shaft, nothing more than that, in order to mount 1 of the several female sides of my quick releases onto the shaft.
So I think I'll simply go for the SRC, which looks to be the cheapest working option.
Thanks again!

 

[blekenbleu]

I will use simple € 18 QRs from Amazon:

Those depend on tiny elastomer buttons to reduce lost motion and rattles.
They compress if a wheel remains attached for more than a few days,
then rattles happen.
The bayonet locking ring goes from too hard to too slack.

I have better experience with Q1R "clones" from AliExpress,
but bought all at one time from one vendor,
since incompatibilities are reported among vendors' Q1R clones.

 

[wolit]

Those depend on tiny elastomer buttons to reduce lost motion and rattles.
They compress if a wheel remains attached for more than a few days,
then rattles happen.
The bayonet locking ring goes from too hard to too slack.

I have better experience with Q1R "clones" from AliExpress,
but bought all at one time from one vendor,
since incompatibilities are reported among vendors' Q1R clones.
View attachment 642176

I was pretty sure that someone would have posted a comment like this one.

Well, there are several reasons why I took my decision (and that's a final decision):

1) I don't want anything less than 4 rims (round small, round big, F1 and DTM style) and I'm not rich enough to spend so much on quick releases.

2) Those cheap and slim quick releases are suitable for real cars (even though I wouldn't mount one on mine), so why shouldn't they work on a sim rig?
Barry Rowland himself said that they're suitable for sim racing.

3) I'll never let a rim attached to the shaft for a long time. That's not a good idea generally speaking, at all, since the weight of the rim keeps pushing down on the balls of the ball bearing of the motor shaft, shortening its lifespan. Some people even use to mount braces on the shaft in order to compensate for this "problematic".

4) If one QR gets faulty, you can easily replace it (at the end of my project I'll have 3 unused female pieces; if 1 male gets defective, an M/F pair only costs € 18); or even repair it, just by using some filler material to create thickness

5) the idea of completely eliminating the smallest traces of mount play is faulty in its conception, since mount play is anyway present, especially on any real racing configuration, and real racing drivers never complain about it.
More over, I'm not planning about using more than 60 ~ 70 % of the available torque (and I'll use 60 to 70 % only with the Sparco R383, which is 33 cm wide).