Question about Simhub/AC/Transducers and 'Slip' effects

[racer9146]

Hello All

Long time lurker. Old dude still playing with sims since the GPL days. As life progresses and get busy I come in and out of the hobby. Lately I read up on SimHub, made a donation and got the fully licensed version.

Only really play. AC, GTL and Dirt Rally at this point.

After much reading I wanted more "immersion and feedback" I upgraded from my old single buttkicker gamer running off a pure sound channel to the following

• SimHub
• Behringer 1000NXD running off 2 channel dedicated USB DAC
• Buttkicker gamer attached to front pedals for "Front effects" (slip)
• Buttkicker LFE attached to rear of seat for "rear effect" (Slip)

Also just repurposed 2 vibration motors to my pedal with the Arduino/Motor board. Works great and easier than i expected to implement.

So i have played with Latte's simhub profiles and even dabbled in the DSP settings in the berhringer. All in all I am very satisfied with the immersion results and its a lot of fun to tune/turn on effects and getting great effects with no piston bang. It takes the immersion to a new level.

However one item still eludes me. I have been experimenting with the Slip effect. My goal is to get better feedback from front or rear buttkicker when the the front or rear of the car starts to lose traction. Both under braking and during turn-in/exit However I dont seem to be able to get a noticeable effect from this. Am I asking to much or is this pretty attainable with more tuning?

regards Daron

 

[stigs2cousin]

Hy Daron,
my first attempt in this regard was also a failure.

Could be me, but a vibration on the "seat of my pants" didn´t tell me about the slip angles front and rear.
For the time being i while take that information from the FFb of my wheel.

Road impact is nice, RPM (threshold for upshift) is even helpfull.
Road vibrations were more of a distraction.

Later I´ll try some exciters on the pedals for wheel slip/lock/spin.

Keep in mind it´s early days for me, mounted this things yesterday.

Some (way) more experienced people here which will help you out.

MFG Carsten

 

[racer9146]

Thanks for the reply. The transducer game is definitely a less is more concept.

Also saving up for a better wheel which should help. Still rocking the old Fantec CSR with adapter for full size wheel.

Glad others also found this challenging.. I guess time turn all the effects off again and play with them 1 by 1

D

 

[blekenbleu]

As others note, one can (at least in theory) learn to associate about any stimulus with some phenomenon,
but some of us are slow learners.. Loss of rear traction is for me most naturally associated with:

• some yaw changes
• tire squeal and judder.

I suppose that a large bass shaker mounted sideways could generate lateral yaw tactile sensations, but at higher frequencies than typical IRL. Tire judder, on the other hand, is mostly within the range of smaller transducers,
e.g. Dayton pucks and thrusters. For knowing which loaded tires are beginning to slip to be useful,
then separately sensed tactile transducers for each are seemingly wanted.

If I were to consider adding motion (NOT), traction loss would be just behind G seat in priority.
Steering FFB is for me evocative enough of curbs, etc. Being actually jounced around at Sebring's sunset bend was mostly distracting and unhelpful.

 

[Mr Latte]

So questions

Next Level Traction Plus Motion
It uses the same telemetry we have access to for creating both front and rear traction loss.

How/What telemetry values is it using and why can we not determine and apply the same operations for the relevant factors.

Assuming G loads / Tyres / Slippage

So as recently being mentioned elsewhere is have "Load & Slip" represented with individual sensations via tactile.

Mono/Stereo
With Lateral based effects, some may have stereo-based tactile installations, although how well they maintain stereo by how they are installed may be questionable.

What is possible with the multi exciter solution for seats.
As we already have people using 4/6/8 channels is to apply effects operations over these with some creativity. One option is, have an effect move over the different channels as the output level for that effect increases. Another option is for a larger more low bass capable unit activates with the higher output values giving the user a clear felt sensation in relation to high output values for varying effects.

Tactile Based Rear Slip?
Its not hard to make an effect start in the back but then as its "output values increase" have it activate on a side seat channel. We can apply threshold control to only activate on the side channels when the car is at 90% . We then can also apply a unique felt sensation for this to use it as a clear driving aid to alert the driver when they reach that 90% range and close to the limits.

The same approach is possible with RPM / Braking Lock / Deceleration

Think Different:
My own rig build will use:
Front / Middle / Rear stereo tactile banks.

I will have upto 5 channels per side to enable an effect to move front-back or back-front with longitudinal effects. Or of course, place different effects to whatever units I want.

Less is not always more, not when you look beyond the limitations of typical installations, or the limitations many transducers people use have. Then apply solutions and methods that extend the potential.

 

[PillePalle84]

Hi, any news to this? I'm using AC and would like to feel the traction loss specially when understeering in my buttkickers. Can't get it to work.

 

[blekenbleu]

I'm using AC and would like to feel the traction loss specially when understeering in my buttkickers.

• understeering implies both (or at least the loaded) front tire slipping
• SimHub traction loss effect is left/right, instead of front/rear

Here is a custom understeer effect:

// understeer
// front left slip
var s = $prop('ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.proxyS.FrontLeft');
s = Math.max(0, s - $prop('ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.proxyS.RearLeft'));
// front right slip
var r = $prop('ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.proxyS.FrontRight');
r = Math.max(0, r - $prop('ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.proxyS.RearRight'));
// correlate slip differences
return Math.sqrt(r*s) * $prop('ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.AbsAcc.Left') / 15;

Instead of ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.proxyS.*, for games which provide it,
substitute: DataCorePlugin.GameRawData.Physics.WheelSlip*

Here is NCalc for 'ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.AbsAcc.Left':
Abs([AccelerationSway])*5

 

[stigs2cousin]

Or the "grassroots approach" would be to set Simhub to "8 channel mode", wheel slip effect to "corners" and use fl + fr for the front buttkicker and rl +rr for the rear under the seat.
Might also work when you set it to front and rear but I never tried that.

 

[blekenbleu]

wheel slip effect to "corners" and use fl + fr for the front buttkicker and rl +rr for the rear under the seat.

Square root(fl*fr) generally works better than than sum,
but iRacing provides no slip telemetry, and SimHub estimate is not great.

 

[stigs2cousin]

We have a slight misunderstanding here, nothing complicated on my part

strike "fr+fl" set "fr and fr"