Questions (Again) About Upgrading my PC

[RasmusP]

P.S. 7700 you don't need a 7700K you not overclocking comes with motherboard

My fail, I didn't look that motherboard up. I'm sorry, thanks for noticing

 

[Durge Driven]

Well you do get extra Turbo speed but with no OC no bang for buck

I would just wait save buy new then he gets better price for old working PC
Otherwise you left with parts

 

[Durge Driven]

This says it all .... .like I said, more efficient, cheaper, faster

By going a faster 7 series he is "doubling down" on bang for buck and I don't want to see him or anyone else do that

 

[Durge Driven]

Well my final advice is upgrading the CPU is not worth it.
That's huge cost and terrible bang for buck 7400 to 7700 right ?

For me micro case ( 10" high ) is the real issue

No matter what CPU you get for gaming you want a aftermarket CPU cooler and will
be forced to use a low rise one as anything decent won't fit in that case

edit: There is another thing not considered your original post points to a GPU that's 9.5" long
Your case says 10" high 8" wide 3" deep so wheres it going to fit ?

I not having a go at you

My PC upgrades I go out and buy the new case and other cheaper bits first put in my wardrobe
That makes me push to save more everyday money ( coffee and donuts ) to get other parts

Then I sell my old running tower

 

[newbert]

This says it all .... .like I said, more efficient, cheaper, faster

By going a faster 7 series he is "doubling down" on bang for buck and I don't want to see him or anyone else do that

Wow! First of all mucho thanks to everyone for your input - but now I'm getting more and more confused. I'm now leaning towards the i5-9600K CPU (whether I decide to overclock or not), but have a few new questions now.

First, it looks to me that the i5-9600K is indeed much more bang for the buck than the i7-7700 - BUT (Critical Question) will it work with my Kaby Lake motherboard? AFAIK it will physically fit into the socket, but the two CPUs are different "architectures". (The i5 is "Coffee Lake" while the i7 is "Kaby Lake" (same as my present CPU). I honestly don't what that means or its implications. Can anyone explain?)

Second, is getting the CPU cooled properly really going to be a problem with my existing case? I imagine that the present (stock) CPU has some sort of cooling, and it fits in the case. (Or am I being too simplistic about this?)

Third, the i5-9600K will require a larger power supply for sure while the i7-7700 (not k) would not. But the i5-9600K seems to have better overall performance, even before overclocking. I was hoping to avoid getting a larger PS, but it's looking more and more necessary.

BTW - I don't plan on doing this myself. I was planning on having my local computer service shop do the work. Sooo.....Right now, I'm thinking of a) ordering the i5-9600K CPU (again assuming it's Kaby Lake compatible?) and Ram online. Then b) have the shop see what they can do to fit a decent cooling fan and larger capacity PS into the existing case. If that's impossible, I guess I'd have to consider c) buying a larger case from them to fit everything, or d) just forget the whole thing and return the CPU (but keep the Ram at least)..

Sound like a plan?

Thanks!.

 

[RasmusP]

Wow! First of all mucho thanks to everyone for your input - but now I'm getting more and more confused. I'm now leaning towards the i5-9600K CPU (whether I decide to overclock or not), but have a few new questions now.

First, it looks to me that the i5-9600K is indeed much more bang for the buck than the i7-7700 - BUT (Critical Question) will it work with my Kaby Lake motherboard? AFAIK it will physically fit into the socket, but the two CPUs are different "architectures". (The i5 is "Coffee Lake" while the i7 is "Kaby Lake" (same as my present CPU). I honestly don't what that means or its implications. Can anyone explain?)

Second, is getting the CPU cooled properly really going to be a problem with my existing case? I imagine that the present (stock) CPU has some sort of cooling, and it fits in the case. (Or am I being too simplistic about this?)

Third, the i5-9600K will require a larger power supply for sure while the i7-7700 (not k) would not. But the i5-9600K seems to have better overall performance, even before overclocking. I was hoping to avoid getting a larger PS, but it's looking more and more necessary.

BTW - I don't plan on doing this myself. I was planning on having my local computer service shop do the work. Sooo.....Right now, I'm thinking of a) ordering the i5-9600K CPU (again assuming it's Kaby Lake compatible?) and Ram online. Then b) have the shop see what they can do to fit a decent cooling fan and larger capacity PS into the existing case. If that's impossible, I guess I'd have to consider c) buying a larger case from them to fit everything, or d) just forget the whole thing and return the CPU (but keep the Ram at least)..

Sound like a plan?

Thanks!.

9600k isn't compatible with the motherboard
I think what Durge wanted to say:
Make a backup of your disks and sell the whole thing.
A 9600k will give you a huuuuuge boost over the 7700k. If you swap in 8gb ram, change psu, cooling, cpu and graphics card...
Only thing left is disks and motherboard...

You will have a way better bang for the buck if you sell your current pc and grab a 9600k + 1070/80, 2060/70 combo.

Or you wait for the next amd generation as the upcoming ryzen CPUs look veeeeery promising and for sure will be cheaper than the Intel's!

I know that sucks but it sadly is the truth..
The only way a 7700K would make sense is when you'd buy that cpu used for cheap money. If you can find one, then I'd say it's easier and better for your current situation. If you'd have to buy it new, don't do it!

 

[newbert]

Yeah, that does indeed suck. But I appreciate the candor.

Sounds like it's best to hold off for now and do a complete system swap in the future.

Thanks!

 

[maelstrom]

A 9600k will give you a huuuuuge boost over the 7700k.

Not if you're just talking primarily about single thread performance. Take a look here: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i5_9600k_processor_review,7.html

If you look at the Cinebench R15 - Single Thread chart (where CPUs are running at stock speeds) there's only about 4% difference between the 9600k and the 7700k. If you look at the IPC chart at the bottom of the page (where ALL CPUs are run at 3.5GHz to give a more accurate comparison), although the 7700k isn't there, the 7600k is exactly the same as the 9600k.

 

[RasmusP]

Not if you're just talking primarily about single thread performance. Take a look here: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i5_9600k_processor_review,7.html

If you look at the Cinebench R15 - Single Thread chart (where CPUs are running at stock speeds) there's only about 4% difference between the 9600k and the 7700k. If you look at the IPC chart at the bottom of the page (where ALL CPUs are run at 3.5GHz to give a more accurate comparison), although the 7700k isn't there, the 7600k is exactly the same as the 9600k.

True, I meant the non-k version. Sorry...
His motherboard doesn't support overclocking so it would be stock clocks, being 3.6 GHz with 4.2 GHz turbo.
If he'd get a 9600k he would probably grab a chipset that supports at least basic overclocking. So the 3.7-4.6 GHz would be easily set to 4.3-4.9 GHz for example. It's only a change of the multiplier with these chips if you don't wanna get too high.
And this would result in a significant difference.
A freely running 7700k to a 9600k isn't that much. True and good point!

 

[newbert]

Not if you're just talking primarily about single thread performance. Take a look here: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i5_9600k_processor_review,7.html

If you look at the Cinebench R15 - Single Thread chart (where CPUs are running at stock speeds) there's only about 4% difference between the 9600k and the 7700k. If you look at the IPC chart at the bottom of the page (where ALL CPUs are run at 3.5GHz to give a more accurate comparison), although the 7700k isn't there, the 7600k is exactly the same as the 9600k.

Yikes - I feel like Michael Corleone here - "Just when I'm out, they pull me back in!" (See my last post - #27).

Translate that chart for me, please.....

I know that the i5-7400 (my present CPU) and the i7-7700 (without "k") aren't specifically listed. But based on what can be extrapolated from the chart, are you now saying that upgrading from i5-7400 to i7-7700 is, or is not, a significant increase in single-thread performance?

If it is, did I, or did I not, read somewhere that single-thread performance is the most important CPU aspect when it comes to sim-racing?

If yes, maybe I'm still interested in doing it..... (confused as hell now).

Thanks!

 

[maelstrom]

...are you now saying that upgrading from i5-7400 to i7-7700 is, or is not, a significant increase in single-thread performance?

At the same clock speed the IPC is probably very similar. However, the 7700 is clocked about 20% faster by default compared to the 7400 which would be an advantage for single-threaded apps. The better processor, although obviously more expensive, is the 7700k. Even if you can't overclock with your H170 chipset, it has a base frequency the same as the turbo frequency of the 7700. You'd probably see a significant performance improvement going from a 7400 to a 7700k. According to HP your motherboard only supports the 7700 (https://support.hp.com/gb-en/document/c05355651) so you'd need to check if there was a BIOS update available to allow you to use the 7700k.

 

[Durge Driven]

Can you refresh my memory what GPU do you have at this time

If it is slowed arsed tell me, what is the point of throwing so much money at it for a CPU when GPU will be bound

What cooler is he going to run for the i7 ? His case is 3" wide
Would the micro board even have space for a cheap 120mm low rise ?
and where would a recommended PSU fit ?

Everyone seems to just neglect the elephant in the room

Item (Case) Dimensions L x W x H 10 x 8 x 3 inches

 

[newbert]

Can you refresh my memory what GPU do you have at this time

If it is slowed arsed tell me, what is the point of throwing so much money at it for a CPU when GPU will be bound

What cooler is he going to run for the i7 ? His case is 3" wide
Would the micro board even have space for a cheap 120mm low rise ?
and where would a recommended PSU fit ?

Everyone seems to just neglect the elephant in the room

Sure - GPU is GTX 1060 (3 Gigs) Will this GPU be bound? (I really don't know).

Regarding the case - I don't know where you got your info from, but the actual physical dimensions are: height 14", depth 14"; width approx. 6-3/4", not 3" (It's a small tower and these measurements were taken as it stands vertically).

Regarding the PSU - If I only replace the CPU, its the same wattage as the current CPU - 65W. Adding 8 Gigs Ram shouldn't tip the scales to needing a PSU, I would think.

 

[Durge Driven]

Sorry I misread when you linked this.... thought you were buying to replace older GPU

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JHQT1S...ART&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&tag=racedep-20

 

[Durge Driven]

Also on page you linked it states 10" x 8" x 3" .....why I thought case was too small

I found a review and they state correct size so all good

https://www.pcbuildadvisor.com/hp-pavilion-power-580-023w-gaming-tower-review/

• Height: 36.40 cm (14.33 in)
• Width: 16.51 cm (6.50 in)
• Depth: 37.80 cm (14.88 in)

 

[newbert]

Also on page you linked it states 10" x 8" x 3" .....why I thought case was too small

I found a review and they state correct size so all good

https://www.pcbuildadvisor.com/hp-pavilion-power-580-023w-gaming-tower-review/

• Height: 36.40 cm (14.33 in)
• Width: 16.51 cm (6.50 in)
• Depth: 37.80 cm (14.88 in)

So, I take it that you mean, based upon these dimensions (which look correct to me) there should be room for a cooling fan on the new CPU?

Thanks for that link too. Good info.

 

[Durge Driven]

Yes that is what I mean

On 7700 if you can get one second hand would be much better bang for buck
Newegg new they $320US ...like I said earlier you could buy a 9600K and a micro gaming motherboard for that....then save up for a good 16GB kit
( assuming your case has standard mATX motherboard stands and backplate that is )

 

[RobertR1]

I’d save up for a new build with new or used parts down the road. You’re just going to be going from one bottleneck to another in your current build.

VR will tax both cpu and gpu so there’s no easy answer there.

 

[newbert]

Well, FWIW I ordered the i7-7700 and 16 Gigs of Ram from Newegg.

I'd like to measure the performance difference before and after so I started a new thread with my question.

Thanks, guys!

 

[AJ McDaddy]

Good luck.
I did a similar upgrade a few years back and found that my PSU became the limiting factor despite being border "within limits" - PC kept black screening and crashing mid race in AC - so I had to upgrade. Only improvements I got were faster boot times and ability to add more AI in offline racing - I didn't get any improvements online and it wasn't until I upgraded my GPU (and another PSU upgrade!) that I as was able to crank up the graphics setting and get proper performance gains visually and FPS. Might (hopefully) be different for you. Other SIMs may differ from AC.