RealFeel settings and discussion

Spinelli · Jun 14, 2015

I would like to tune RealFeel in order to make the most out of my wheel. I'm experiencing the same issues with my Fanatec Clubsport V2 as I did with my Thrustmaster T500RS and a friend's TM TX. I can feel resistance, the wheel countersteer due to oversteer, and things like bumps, undulations, etc. BUT what I hardly feel - and it's the most important thing for me when I race - is the actual tyre grip itself (both, lateral and longitudinal) especially the front tyres'.

E.g. I feel almost no difference from having full tyre grip, to just slowing getting some slip, to being in a good slip angle, to pushing slightly too far past that slip angle (just a bit), to pushing really far past the slip angle, to pushing super far past like an understeering lunatic

. Furthermore, the lack of FFB info is obviously therefore present when trying to lessen the slip angle as you're in the re-gaining grip phase - no FFB information.

Therefore I've created this thread for use to start helping each other with RealFeel values in order to get more "pure tyre grip/slip" information from our wheels and just to optimize this absolutely wonderful game with all our different wheels out there

Spinelli · Jun 15, 2015

I'd like to start with one thing. It may not help in feeling more actual front tyre grip/slip differences but may improve the overall game-to-wheel FFB optimization for each of our different real-life wheels...

I read somewhere that you can use telemetry (e.g. Motec) to see the particular car's steering torque and then, using those values, adjust some values in RealFeel in accordance with your real-life wheel's torque output. The details are vague. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

yusupov · Jun 15, 2015

can you name sims that give you good tire grip feel? im just trying to understand exactly what you mean. i just went back to sce for a formula vee race as i do every few days & i felt very in control despite, of course, slipping around quite a bit. but i honestly cant say if it was due to ffb; it may simply be that the tires are designed in such a way as to be controllable while at relatively high slip angles.

for example, i think project cars & (especially) rf2 provide excellent feedback of how how much grip tires of all stripes have, but ive assumed much of this is due to the way the tires are modeled, at least as much as it is how theyre felt through the wheel. i dont know if thats what youre talking about, or not at all, or sort of?

Spinelli · Jun 15, 2015

I feel in control. I can, for example, do 50 laps without a single spin or crash while keeping a decent pace if I wanted to. But my old T500RS, TX, and current CSW V2 give no information regarding front tyre grip from the moment of braking, to turn-in, to mid-corner, to exit, low slip angles, high slip angles, nothing, it's dead and muted.

Just trying to get more info (or info at all) regarding overall tyre grip. I could always raise FFB to "high" or "full" and mix in some original, non-real feel FFB (maybe lower Realfeel to 90% instead of 100%). Then, I can edit a few different lines there that all have to do with how front grip/slip information get's communicated through our wheels but I want to try and avoid that for now and see if I can get the desired result from just pure RealFeel forces.

Spinelli · Jun 15, 2015

The 2nd paragraph in my previous post was referring to adjusting some front grip/slip FFB settings in the controller file. I want to try and avoid that right now as I want to try and use just RealFeel and "low" FFB settings.

Fernando Zart · Jun 15, 2015

Do a search for LeoFFB. It is a plugin that you can edit and mix with your realfeel and get the information you are after. I did it in rF1 times, and it was really excellent. I could clearly feel the wheel becoming lighter when I was pushing too hard past the optimal slip angle, etc. In SCE I don't feel the need as I like the FFB as it is now (after doing lots of tweaks by myself).
Cheers.

Tobbe Bergman · Jun 15, 2015

Relying on 3rd party software to make a Sim feel right just proves that someone, somewhere didn't do it right in the first place !

Fernando Zart · Jun 15, 2015

Mikaela Andersson said:
Relying on 3rd party software to make a Sim feel right just proves that someone, somewhere didn't do it right in the first place !

Hi Miakela. Well, I understand your point of view, but in this particular case (ffb) I tend to disagree.
There are a lot of variables outside the game, for example, the wheel type and configuration (profile) used by players, and also what people consider "good ffb".
In face of so many variations, I think it is good to be able to use tweaks to customize things to suit your taste, instead of being forced to use something that devs envisioned while using their hw (which probably will be different than yours).
That being said, IMHO, SCE is one of the best (if not THE best) ffb that I've experienced right out of the box for original content. Also, if you can tweak, this is a proof that someone, somewhere, made things right.

Tobbe Bergman · Jun 16, 2015

Fernando Zart said:
Hi Miakela. Well, I understand your point of view, but in this particular case (ffb) I tend to disagree.
There are a lot of variables outside the game, for example, the wheel type and configuration (profile) used by players, and also what people consider "good ffb".
In face of so many variations, I think it is good to be able to use tweaks to customize things to suit your taste, instead of being forced to use something that devs envisioned while using their hw (which probably will be different than yours).
That being said, IMHO, SCE is one of the best (if not THE best) ffb that I've experienced right out of the box for original content. Also, if you can tweak, this is a proof that someone, somewhere, made things right.

I find Assetto Corsa to have the perfect FFB.
No need for 3rd party software there !

RBR also feels great to me !

SCE alway felt too loose in the middle and I have still not been able to make it feel as good as AC or RBR with my CSW V1.

SCE feels like there are bolts that aren't fastened in the front of the car and the front tires are flat or something !

David Wright · Jun 16, 2015

This thread perfectly illustrates the subjective nature of FFB. SCEs FFB is clearly popular with many people but I've never liked "real-feel" for the two issues given above - I can't feel when the tyres are at the peak of the slipcurve, and I get a FFB deadzone around straight ahead.

Spinelli · Jun 17, 2015

K how about we start with this

MaxForceAtSteeringRack=
SteeringDamper=
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=
FrontGripEffect=
SmoothingLevel=
Kf=
Ks=
A=
Kr=

Can we get a description of what each does and maybe some tips/suggestions? I'm assuming smoothing should almost always be at 0, but what about the rest?

Patrick Giranthon · Jun 17, 2015

Mikaela Andersson said:
I find Assetto Corsa to have the perfect FFB.
No need for 3rd party software there !

RBR also feels great to me !

SCE alway felt too loose in the middle and I have still not been able to make it feel as good as AC or RBR with my CSW V1.

SCE feels like there are bolts that aren't fastened in the front of the car and the front tires are flat or something !

Nearly sure your wheel is not setup correctly. Some guys have your wheel in my league and have a Perfect feeling. What is your setup?

Spinelli · Jun 17, 2015

I'm trying the RealFeel shortcuts from the RealFeel RFactor thread. I tried right ctrl + 0 to disable. I'm pretty sure these shortcuts don't work in SCE. I also don't hear a voice...

Reik Major · Jun 17, 2015

yusupov said:
can you name sims that give you good tire grip feel?

I have driven Race07 for ages now and I feel it gives you a very good response in terms of tyre grip. (I think that's what Spinelli means) In general Race07's FFB feels very right to me.

Now I'm gaining my first experiences with GSC and I miss that tyre grip feeling a bit. But in general the FFB of GSC also feels relatively true to me, so all good.

Btw, I'm missing any vibration in my wheel when driving over curbs. Am I missing an option somewhere?

Tobbe Bergman · Jun 17, 2015

Patrick Giranthon said:
Nearly sure your wheel is not setup correctly. Some guys have your wheel in my league and have a Perfect feeling. What is your setup?

David Cordell · Jun 17, 2015

Spinelli said:
I'm trying the RealFeel shortcuts from the RealFeel RFactor thread. I tried right ctrl + 0 to disable. I'm pretty sure these shortcuts don't work in SCE. I also don't hear a voice...

The shortcuts do work and you have to enable the voice in the realfeelplugin.ini . Near the top of the file is a setting called SpeechEnabled=False .....change to true.

You have to use the right control key + numpad:

Numpad Keys
0 Less Smoothing
. More Smoothing
1 Decrease RFP mix
2 RFP on\off
3 Increase RFP mix
4 Softer FFB respone
5 Sharpest FFB response
6 Sharper FFB response
7 Stronger FFB
8 Reverse FFB
9 Softer FFB

Use left control key + numpad 8 to reset to Min\Max

Spinelli · Jun 17, 2015

Darn I thought 0 was on/off not 2, that's why I thought it wasn't doing anything.

Is there a way we can see the values of what we're changing in some HUD/UI in-game? I have no idea what value I'm changing it to and no idea what value I'm currently using

Also, what exactly is being changed? I see things like "stronger FFB" and "sharper FFB" but what about all the following values?:

- MaxForceAtSteeringRack
- SteeringDamper
- FFBMixerRealFeelPercent
- FrontGripEffect
- SmoothingLevel
- Kf
- Ks
- A
- Kr

Can anyone give an explanation for all those?

Insert Coin · Jun 17, 2015

Reik Major said:
I have driven Race07 for ages now and I feel it gives you a very good response in terms of tyre grip. (I think that's what Spinelli means) In general Race07's FFB feels very right to me.

Now I'm gaining my first experiences with GSC and I miss that tyre grip feeling a bit. But in general the FFB of GSC also feels relatively true to me, so all good.

Btw, I'm missing any vibration in my wheel when driving over curbs. Am I missing an option somewhere?

I like Race07's FFB (still playing it!), but to my opinion GSC's FFB is even better. But hey, that's me

.

Regarding the missing curbs FFB: do you have FFB settings on LOW perhaps?

David Cordell · Jun 17, 2015

Spinelli said:
Darn I thought 0 was on/off not 2, that's why I thought it wasn't doing anything.

Is there a way we can see the values of what we're changing in some HUD/UI in-game? I have no idea what value I'm changing it to and no idea what value I'm currently using

I don't think there is a way to see the values without looking at the realfeel ini file. If you enable the speech and shut the engine off you can hear the values that are being changed. I wish there was a way to independently raise the RFP womans voice.

By the way, I tried disabling the realfeel for the first time and it felt awful as if a centering spring had been enabled.

Spinelli · Jun 17, 2015

Insert Coin said:
I like Race07's FFB (still playing it!), but to my opinion GSC's FFB is even better. But hey, that's me .

Regarding the missing curbs FFB: do you have FFB settings on LOW perhaps?

Yes, that's what I'm talkin about

. The great thing with SCE though is that it has all the options, and more, that Race 07 has. You can adjust them in the controller file. But you'll be mixing it in with RealFeel so make sure to disable or just lower RealFeels percentage.

I'm not missing any curb feels. I'm currently using "Low" FFB as it's the purest in-terms of steering column forces and RealFeel. I'm going to try and play with RealFeel.

If I'm still not satisfied, I'll blend in some regular FFB with RealFeel. Therefore setting the RealFeel mix to somewhere between 50% and 90% and the FFB at most likely either "High" or "Full" in order to feel all those so called "canned" effects (which - despite being "canned" - are still connected to, and acting according to, what the car's physics are doing). Those "canned" effects, personally, relay what the car is doing better and therefore help me drive much closer to the limit without going over the limit and making mistakes (like going wide in a corner or holding down the brake too long/little) in my RF1 days. I really felt all those "canned" forces helped make up for the lack of actually sitting in a car and feeling everything. That's just my personal opinion though and that's what I love about SCE, it has the flexibility to tune all this.