Tracks Rennbahn 1928 1.0

[THL]

THL submitted a new resource:

Rennbahn 1928 - Scratch-made historic oval track near Rüsselsheim, Germany, 1928, beta version, practice only

This is a scratch-made beta version (so far only practice/hot-lapping possible) of Opel Rennbahn, also known as Opelbahn, one of the very first permanent race tracks in Europe and one of the fastest, located at Rüsselsheim only 3 km away from Opel factory and headquarters.
The 1.5 km long oval track was built in 1919, my version represents 1928s appearance with the bridge over Nordkurve, the waterworks building behind the grandstands and the tall chimney of Opel factory in the...

Read more about this resource...

 

[Rufus Baggsby]

This looks great, like a German Brooklands. Can't wait to try it with a nicecuppatea. Many thanks for sharing a pre-war track - there is a shortage of them.

 

[Paintboxer]

I'm fascinated by this early pioneer era of racing and this looks fantastic thank you! This is also part of sim racing modding I appricate the most, when a lost track is resurrected with this high level detail like you have done here given the research and development required. You mentioned it in the description about the size and speed of certain cars from that era, I think also the upcoming pre war turn of the century cars from the Casual Team will be complimented very well by this tracks smaller size. Once again massive thank you! I'm looking forward to future updates or other work as this is brilliant!

Keep up the fantastic work!

 

[GTAce]

Didn't have the time to drive the masterpiece yet, but do you need someone for the cams?

 

[Nicecuppatea]

Fantastic! I think you've really captured the vintage feel and even though it seems like a basic oval there's a bit more to it than just thrashing around at full revs. I like that you've anticipated people needing a way back into the arena after they go flying off the banking...not me of course...other people...ahem...

Keep going, everyone's entitled to their opinion but that doesn't mean you have to listen to it or take it seriously (mine included). You've got a very good base there and it's already great fun trying to get round without going for 'a little drive in the country'.

 

[PortuguesePilot]

I see some people bashing my opinion and I come here to justify the somewhat low rating and to see if people at least try to understand where I came from.

The main reasons were highlighted by the author himself. The ones that grieved me the most were:
- no AI line, therefore no races possible, only practice/hot-lapping
- no TV cameras

These are some of the most important aspects that I look for in a track. Missing them both is a major blow, in my book. It makes it a "poor" track to have any real fun - for me - and I graded it accordingly. Now I explained that I see a lot of potential in this track and that what is there is already quite nice but the lacking of these two features hinders it tremendously. This is my opinion and I'm as entitled to it as anyone else is entitled to their own.

Now for the 2 star rating... I have a feeling that people are giving away 5 stars to everything, these days... they give it for about anything. So what will we award to REAL excellence? The same rating we give everything else? You see, this is a cultural issue. Many people from the Western World (mainly in the USA but not only) have grown over the last decade or so a mindset in which any criticism is viewed as an attack. As a personal offence. No longer can criticism be used constructively nor does it work as a motivator. It seems that any criticism is viewed as a vile stab in the back. This gives raise to the opposite action: garde everything as 5 star; To pat every doodler in the back; To give out medals for coming last; Congratulating any action as awesome; Consider every personal opinion has having the same weight or validity... in short, it started to promote mediocrity as the norm instead of instilling the need to improve, to excel, to come as close to perfection as is humanly possible. I disagree greatly with this path that the Western Civilisation has taken and I believe that it will - sooner or later - come back arround and byte it in the back side.

So, to make things clearer:
1) A 2 star is not a personal attack. It's not an attack at all. It reflects the way I perceive your track as it stands (an admittedly beta track gets a beta-adequate rating).
2) Improve your track - as I said I'd hope you'd do - and I will improve my rating accordingly.

Outcome: in the end, we both win. I get a better track, you get a better rating. And more knowledge on how to make great tracks. You become a BETTER MODDER (and even a better person for having shown perseverance).

The alternative was to settle with the track as it is, saying it's already perfect (5 stars) and move on to another track (possibility sub-par too because you hadn't gotten the extra knowledge from perfecting the former one) and repeat ad nauseam. I sure know we're seeing this process a lot lately, aren't we? And then people get offended when someone has the nerve of saying "this could have been done a bit better, couldn't it?". I've seen people rage-quit because of simple honest questions like that one...

To finish: I have no beef with you (the author) nor with anyone else. All I whish for is for you to excel at your craft and to not settle with sub-par. Does that really make me such a bad guy?

 

[pre9v]

I see some people bashing my opinion and I come here to justify the somewhat low rating and to see if people at least try to understand where I came from.

The main reasons were highlighted by the author himself. The ones that grieved me the most were:
- no AI line, therefore no races possible, only practice/hot-lapping
- no TV cameras

These are some of the most important aspects that I look for in a track. Missing them both is a major blow, in my book. It makes it a "poor" track to have any real fun - for me - and I graded it accordingly. Now I explained that I see a lot of potential in this track and that what is there is already quite nice but the lacking of these two features hinders it tremendously. This is my opinion and I'm as entitled to it as anyone else is entitled to their own.

Now for the 2 star rating... I have a feeling that people are giving away 5 stars to everything, these days... they give it for about anything. So what will we award to REAL excellence? The same rating we give everything else? You see, this is a cultural issue. Many people from the Western World (mainly in the USA but not only) have grown over the last decade or so a mindset in which any criticism is viewed as an attack. As a personal offence. No longer can criticism be used constructively nor does it work as a motivator. It seems that any criticism is viewed as a vile stab in the back. This gives raise to the opposite action: garde everything as 5 star; To pat every doodler in the back; To give out medals for coming last; Congratulating any action as awesome; Consider every personal opinion has having the same weight or validity... in short, it started to promote mediocrity as the norm instead of instilling the need to improve, to excel, to come as close to perfection as is humanly possible. I disagree greatly with this path that the Western Civilisation has taken and I believe that it will - sooner or later - come back arround and byte it in the back side.

So, to make things clearer:
1) A 2 star is not a personal attack. It's not an attack at all. It reflects the way I perceive your track as it stands (an admittedly beta track gets a beta-adequate rating).
2) Improve your track - as I said I'd hope you'd do - and I will improve my rating accordingly.

Outcome: in the end, we both win. I get a better track, you get a better rating. And more knowledge on how to make great tracks. You become a BETTER MODDER (and even a better person for having shown perseverance).

The alternative was to settle with the track as it is, saying it's already perfect (5 stars) and move on to another track (possibility sub-par too because you hadn't gotten the extra knowledge from perfecting the former one) and repeat ad nauseam. I sure know we're seeing this process a lot lately, aren't we? And then people get offended when someone has the nerve of saying "this could have been done a bit better, couldn't it?". I've seen people rage-quit because of simple honest questions like that one...

To finish: I have no beef with you (the author) nor with anyone else. All I whish for is for you to excel at your craft and to not settle with sub-par. Does that really make me such a bad guy?

A fantastic scratch-made free mod doesn't have an AI line yet = The Decline of Western Civilization

 

[Johnr777]

I see some people bashing my opinion and I come here to justify the somewhat low rating and to see if people at least try to understand where I came from.

The main reasons were highlighted by the author himself. The ones that grieved me the most were:
- no AI line, therefore no races possible, only practice/hot-lapping
- no TV cameras

These are some of the most important aspects that I look for in a track. Missing them both is a major blow, in my book. It makes it a "poor" track to have any real fun - for me - and I graded it accordingly. Now I explained that I see a lot of potential in this track and that what is there is already quite nice but the lacking of these two features hinders it tremendously. This is my opinion and I'm as entitled to it as anyone else is entitled to their own.

Now for the 2 star rating... I have a feeling that people are giving away 5 stars to everything, these days... they give it for about anything. So what will we award to REAL excellence? The same rating we give everything else? You see, this is a cultural issue. Many people from the Western World (mainly in the USA but not only) have grown over the last decade or so a mindset in which any criticism is viewed as an attack. As a personal offence. No longer can criticism be used constructively nor does it work as a motivator. It seems that any criticism is viewed as a vile stab in the back. This gives raise to the opposite action: garde everything as 5 star; To pat every doodler in the back; To give out medals for coming last; Congratulating any action as awesome; Consider every personal opinion has having the same weight or validity... in short, it started to promote mediocrity as the norm instead of instilling the need to improve, to excel, to come as close to perfection as is humanly possible. I disagree greatly with this path that the Western Civilisation has taken and I believe that it will - sooner or later - come back arround and byte it in the back side.

So, to make things clearer:
1) A 2 star is not a personal attack. It's not an attack at all. It reflects the way I perceive your track as it stands (an admittedly beta track gets a beta-adequate rating).
2) Improve your track - as I said I'd hope you'd do - and I will improve my rating accordingly.

Outcome: in the end, we both win. I get a better track, you get a better rating. And more knowledge on how to make great tracks. You become a BETTER MODDER (and even a better person for having shown perseverance).

The alternative was to settle with the track as it is, saying it's already perfect (5 stars) and move on to another track (possibility sub-par too because you hadn't gotten the extra knowledge from perfecting the former one) and repeat ad nauseam. I sure know we're seeing this process a lot lately, aren't we? And then people get offended when someone has the nerve of saying "this could have been done a bit better, couldn't it?". I've seen people rage-quit because of simple honest questions like that one...

To finish: I have no beef with you (the author) nor with anyone else. All I whish for is for you to excel at your craft and to not settle with sub-par. Does that really make me such a bad guy?

Or how about not rating a beta track and voicing your concerns and feedback on this section?

No one wins with your review, nothing constructive about it, nothing helpful. You clearly knew there was going to be a reaction, so I guess you won.

 

[Kenny Paton]

Let's keep the personal attacks out of the thread please.

 

[garyjpaterson]

Now for the 2 star rating... I have a feeling that people are giving away 5 stars to everything, these days... they give it for about anything. So what will we award to REAL excellence?

I get this, I see people giving super basic converts or rips 5 stars all the time, when there is clearly no talent behind them.
That sucks.
But those mods have nothing in common with this. This is a mod - stated as a work in progress - clearly made from scratch with a lot of care and skill. For me, that alone (ie not being a worthless rip) is reason enough to praise. Its not easy, despite what many think.

Outcome: in the end, we both win. I get a better track, you get a better rating. And more knowledge on how to make great tracks. You become a BETTER MODDER (and even a better person for having shown perseverance).

Jesus christ. Not sure you could come across any more patronising. The creator does not need your, frankly pointless, feedback to become a better modder. The items you criticized were already known to be absent, its not like he didn't know AI lines existed before you, his saviour, came and and informed him.
You giving him a poor review doesn't mean you win, the track was CLEARLY a work in progress and would get these features in due time. You waiting patiently a while until its considered a finished piece of work would be everyone winning.
Don't make this about you saving the day, mate. You've done no such thing.

The alternative was to settle with the track as it is, saying it's already perfect (5 stars) and move on to another track (possibility sub-par too because you hadn't gotten the extra knowledge from perfecting the former one) and repeat ad nauseam. I sure know we're seeing this process a lot lately, aren't we? And then people get offended when someone has the nerve of saying "this could have been done a bit better, couldn't it?". I've seen people rage-quit because of simple honest questions like that one...

You are missing one massive point; the author stated that the track was unfinished and would be improved upon later. It didn't need pointed out, it was a known quantity.
There were literally dozens of alternatives. You don't need to **** on someone's work when they already know of its drawbacks. Try and find ways of improvement that the author hasn't already acknowledged, maybe then you can be somewhat useful.
Also don't kid yourself and suggest you simple said "this could have been done a bit better, couldn't it?". That option was available to you right here in the thread from the very beginning.

All I whish for is for you to excel at your craft and to not settle with sub-par. Does that really make me such a bad guy?

There are so many ways of going about trying to get someone to excel. You picked precisely zero of them.

 

[Wietie]

Outcome: in the end, we both win. I get a better track, you get a better rating. And more knowledge on how to make great tracks. You become a BETTER MODDER (and even a better person for having shown perseverance).

Can I just say that not only is this part angering me, it's really disrespectful.

 

[Johnr777]

Can I just say that not only is this part angering me, it's really disrespectful.

It definitely is, but apparently we are the ones attacking him.

 

[Kenny Paton]

It definitely is, but apparently we are the ones attacking him.

No I'm not picking sides, just trying to keep the thread on topic, and his points have been well answered. Being disrespectful isn't against our ToS, which is just as well or we'd have many very short threads.

 

[Wietie]

[...]Being disrespectful isn't against our ToS[...]

Excuse me?

 

[garyjpaterson]

Being disrespectful isn't against our ToS

Its a miracle modders bother sharing their work at all tbh, when some know-it-alls come in and tell us we're doing everything wrong.

Might be worthwhile having a rethink about those ToS' if being the main source of most mods is even a little bit important to RD...

 

[Johnr777]

No I'm not picking sides, just trying to keep the thread on topic, and his points have been well answered. Being disrespectful isn't against our ToS, which is just as well or we'd have many very short threads.

I understand what you are trying to do. Just don’t think it’s fair only one side gets their voices heard. The topic right now is to get THL to stay in the modding community and that’s where the discussions is heading to unfortunately...

 

[PortuguesePilot]

THL is leaving? Because of what I said?!

He's giving me waaaay too much importance.

THL, mate, I'm just a jack. 0 importance. Don't quit 'cos of me.

 

[KittX]

So, to make things clearer:
1) A 2 star is not a personal attack. It's not an attack at all. It reflects the way I perceive your track as it stands (an admittedly beta track gets a beta-adequate rating).
2) Improve your track - as I said I'd hope you'd do - and I will improve my rating accordingly.

Outcome: in the end, we both win. I get a better track, you get a better rating. And more knowledge on how to make great tracks. You become a BETTER MODDER (and even a better person for having shown perseverance).

Or alternatively: cooperate with someone who does AI lines and cameras. Some persons can be really good at 3d, but have no skills nor time for doing good ai lines/cams, especially while there are other people around that can do these very things better.

While I agree with some parts of your rant, things like mediocrity as the norm nowadays, but on the other side - compare the best rFactor1 mod car or track from, say, 2006, with avergae car/track in AC now. Things became way more complicated, and the entry level to modding is becoming more complicated, and the results are usually better. Plus theres the global tendency to collaborate that is also becoming norm. And if in some old-school times you had to be good at damn everything, and not just good, but better than everyone else, to be considered good (and God forbid if you had a life!), I remember in early-mid 2000s the impostor-syndrome-culture was peaking - it was praised everywhere, everyone wanted to tell you their opinion how professional you are. (and did you have certified papers or not). Nowadays the impostor syndrome is still praised, but not as much, people started getting that life is not a sport or competition.

Overlall it still sounds very demanding from your side, like what's your contribution to the deal? The modder becoming a better person?

While I still agree [2] that the reaction from THL was a bit over the place, but when you're working on something for quite a long time, you start losing a sight/criteria what's good and whats not good. And your criticism being not constructive about some specific things, rather quite ranty, sounded like all those days/months working on 3d were not justified/were for no reason. And especially they may sound like that for the tired brain, tired from the project and not understanding anymore is it good or not.

 

[aphidgod]

Absolutely. I mean, there's a reason most of us on the car side work in teams. Very few have the skills necessary to do 3d, physics and sound.

 

[Kenny Paton]

ts a miracle modders bother sharing their work at all tbh, when some know-it-alls come in and tell us we're doing everything wrong.

Might be worthwhile having a rethink about those ToS' if being the main source of most mods is even a little bit important to RD...

I'm relating to many posts on RD not necessarily modders, also remember that not everyone is fluent in English and sometimes the written word doesn't always convey the writers meaning clearly.
I would also point out that to equate my single post with any lack of support for the modding community by RD could be (if taken the wrong way) considered disrespectful.


Anyway let's not go any further off topic please.