Reverse Layouts – A Sheer Resource

[Dave Thayer]

I have made a few reverse tracks just for my own personal use and learning in Assetto Corsa(AC) just for a change of paste and just to see how much different the tracks look and drive. Flipping the starting grid, pits around, and AI lines is pretty easy. It is remarking the track markers is a little more work to do.

But like someone else mentioned, it would be 2 separate track models in AC. And also agree that in real life tracks many are not setup safety wise to run events backwards.

 

[Durge Driven]

Try rF2 F1 Historic ( any Historic ) and Belgium '66 backwards

 

[tonydean2]

Just for the record I am not inferring that console games are in any way better or equal to sims. Heaven forbid that would be like saying that a Porsche isn't a real Porsche unless it has it's engine in the back and is air cooled. We are each entitled to our own opinions and I expressed mine. To infer that somehow being a "sim racer" makes one superior to mere gaming and sim enthusiasts is frankly imo rather sad, after all if it weren't for the enthusiastic amateurs out here then the sim developers would soon be out of business due to lack of sales. Whether you play on a console or PC, are a mere enthusiast or serious hard core sim racer we all share one thing. We enjoy what we do. So please guys ease of the insults just because a person doesn't come up to your lofty ideals. We all love our hobby/sport or we wouldn't be doing it

 

[RKip455]

I'm all for reverse layouts

Same here... so how do I run reverse layouts in games like ACC, R3E etc?

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Reverse layouts are great. And not only for just more track diversity. Yeah the run off areas are all wrong, and kerbing isn't the best either, but there is serious fun and even some learning to be found on reverse tracks.

I for one love Barcelona GP track (moto layout) in reverse, so many deep trailbraking zones, very little tracks have this kind of tightening corners. Amazing fun. Nordschleife is pretty interesting too.

Running tracks in reverse also makes it a bit easier to get a proper feel of the corner angles, especially when camber and elevation changes are involved. I'm super sad we can't drive in reverse in ACC, or even properly walk the track back and forth because of automatic pit reset .

edit:
@Matiozo Ah good old NFS, these were super fun, although with modern graphics and laser scanned tracks it would probably be super weird to drive mirrored lol. I'd love to try it thou!

 

[gianlucaP]

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[MeltFire]

I always wondered why no one made a reverse layout pack for AC, because on a technical level it isn't super hard to do. Make a new kn5 file that contains propper rotated positions for AC's logic track objects (Pit positions, starting positions, sectors) and record a new AI line, which are admittedly hard to do right, but that's pretty much it.

Maybe I'll look into that myself if i find the time.

There are a few AC modders out there who already made reverse layouts of Bathurst, Barcelona, and Brands Hatch with working A.I. The latter which is surprisingly fun!

 

[ACHIM-K]

Bitte löschen. Das hier hat nichts mit Simracing zu tun. Eventuell war für die XBOX ....

 

[ACHIM-K]

.

 

[Sean]

Always wondered what Bathurst would be like in reverse, I should really try it!

According to this race meeting track map, that's what was happening
(scroll down to the track map)

EU - FVR V8 Supercars @ Bathurst - Saturday 07 Dec 2019

We are driving the MIGHTY V8 Supercars, bucket loads of thanks go out to FVR for this superb mod. Consistency will be just as important as speed, at this terrific track. We will be driving over the "Mountain Top" within inches of the walls that line the circuit there, so strap yourself in for...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[Driver Motive]

holy moly, corkscrew uphill

I actually did drive it up hill and it’s crazy! VR specially

 

[Ruy Horta]

I only count the full tracks - variants are added in the equation - reversals practically ignored. Don’t see them as anything but inflation for marketing indicative of lazy / cheap game design.

 

[GTR233]

Well, it would be amazing to drive Nascar tracks in reverse

Joke apart, first reverse tracks I have seen were on Amiga Lotus turbo challenge, later on pc with SCREAMER, then PS1 GranTurismo, and more recently on Racedriver GRID1 were you can run Donington, Spa and Bathurst (dlc) in both ways : for sure eau rouge in reverse is amazing

 

[guidofoc]

Well in real life on many modern tracks the runoff areas, kerbs, tire walls, road signs, lights etc. are meant to be used in one direction, which means that driving the other way around is not safe. Full stop.

But we are in a game and on some tracks it is fine so for those it would be logic to have both directions.

 

[JasonMADCow]

holy moly, corkscrew uphill

Thought exactly the same while I was reading the article. What a "mythical climb in the middle of a track"

 

[Wilko Jones]

I use to race courses backwards on Forza 2. I've done it with a few friends, and had some good (and funny) moments from those shenanigans. Laguna Seca corkscrew at full tilt in reverse became a jumping contest. LOL

I understand that some race tracks are intended to be ran in one direction, but that fact strikes me as strange. But what I find even more bizarre is that sims and games that feature those tracks, do not have reverse direction races. In gaming/sim racing, the reasons a track is ran in a particular direction could (and should) be explored and laid bare. For example, seeing cars easily losing control going down a wet Eu Rouge, would highlight why this track is officially ran clockwise. But as I get older, I realize how asinine people can be. Especially when it comes to licensing, and when money is involved.

 

[Ghoults]

I think in general in sims the only real reason why we don't have reverse layouts in sims is because the devs just don't want to make them. The reasons could be purely ideological (real life) or it could just be that the extra work that is needed is not considered worth it. I can understand the 2nd argument but the first one seems a bit pretentious. But even then a personal feeling about what is good or bad may not be shared by most other people. Lots of people like tracks I don't and vice versa so it is somewhat difficult to be someone who has authority over taste about race track quality.

While there are lots of reasons why a track can not be driven in opposite direction in real life there really aren't that many in sims. Even serrated kerbs (image example) can be easily driven in the wrong way in sims. The ffb might be more harsh but the sim cars can take it just fine. As long as low cars won't get launched airborne I don't think there are any real issues there. Safety areas don't matter at all in sims. Sand traps might be in wrong places so if you go off chances are you hit a concrete wall at really high speed. If there is a wall there at all. But then again in sims all walls are essentially concrete walls as only a handful of games ever have tried to simulate any kind of deformable barriers or tire walls.

Kerb placement could be annoying. If a corner has really small apex kerb it might not be in the apex anymore when you drive in opposite direction. Some corners which need exit kerbs may have none. Pit entry and exit could be in awful places on opposite tracks. Just imagine getting t-boned in spa when exiting pits when a car missed braking point. But that is really small annoyance in the end and some real tracks have really horrible pit exits like lime rock so it is not a realism killer either.

I think for sims the things you need to do in general is a list like this:
- pit slots and starting grid
- timing gates
- ai lines (racing line and pit line) and all other ai adjustments
- adding braking markers and start lights (the few things that really require 3d modelling but not necessary)
- might need new track cameras, probably not
- any additional features like time trial gates
- and testing
For many tracks in a modding platform like in ac this can be done as a mod that works as small drag and drop package. In most cases you just need one small kn5 file and new folder for the track layout ini files.

For relatively low effort you can get a new track into the sim. I'd really wish more sims would do it.

 

[MarkR]

I generally enjoy reverse and alternate track layouts in games, especially the likes of PGR, DiRT, Forza etc as already mentioned. There have also been many great fictional tracks such as Forza's Maple Valley and Fujimi Kaido I'm all for games that include high-quality fictional tracks which are better than the often repetitive procedurally generated stuff.

Even small changes to the track can cause hilarious moments. I once qualified on pole for a 50 lap Forza 7 Touring Car race at Silverstone, it was a close race as the first pitstops approached. I managed to lead the first 10 cars down the old pit entrance road and straight into a 10 car pile up into the barriers blocking the entrance...oooppps. Since then Forza has added a pit entrance on-screen marker.

In real life, I've had as much fun learning different cornering techniques using handling areas with cone created tracks - with no risk of hitting anything more solid than a plastic cone it is easy to experiment with different approaches to corners and learn how cars with different drivetrains react to the same situations.

Just our little pc and console racing groups opinion - most games have too many cars and not enough tracks to avoid too much repetition. More tracks please.

 

[nicks1]

Laguna Seca in reverse is sick. Very fun to drive

 

[Jonny Austin]

It all comes down to fun v simulation.So I dont think Forza,GRID or Gran Turismo players complain about reverse layouts on fantasy tracks because they are not aiming for anything close to realism.
In simulations it is different,so you would never see an official race in Iracing or ACC or RRE because high end manufacturers & legendary tracks dont want to be associated with something like a bunch of Ferraris crashing at Spa going through Eau Rouge the wrong way!