RTX 2070 Super or RX 5700 XT?

Denis Betty · Jan 4, 2020

Been looking (wistfully really) at a 2070 Super and I just can't justify the money. I recently bought used triple 1920 x 1080 monitors running on a GTX 1080 and, although they work fine, I'd just like to be able to turn up the in game settings a little. Currently playing rF2 and AC, but hoping that AMS 2 will be to my taste, so I may want a better card for that.

I just took a look at a comparison/hierarchy table on Tom's Hardware and they rate the 5700 XT higher than the 2070 Super... even though the AMD card is around 100 quid cheaper.

Thing is, I've always stuck with what I know - Intel and Nvidea - so I'm worried that the switch to AMD might be problematic in some way. For instance, W10 - since the Fall Creators update, some time ago now, AA has been borked on ISI based sims - rFactor, AMS, etc. However, there is a work around in Nvidea Profile Inspector.

So my question is, would I be easily able to find a similar work around for the AMD card, or does the problem not exist on said AMD cards? Or, more accurately, would the transition to an AMD GPU be relatively painless for an ageing computer dummy like me, are my fears of the unknown unfounded?

Or, is there something massive and totally obvious that I'm missing. I mean, the cheapest 2070 Super cards I'm seeing are around 450 (too steep for me really atm), whereas the higher rated AMD card starts at a little over 350??? That's what I paid for the GTX 1080 - used.
It looks like I'll get around 250 for my 1080 - even more used - so if Nvidea cards aren't actually any better, is this all just a case of The Emperor's New Clothes, or is there good reason for the difference in prices?

I have a sneaking suspicion that this question will divide opinions. That's not my intention, I'm honestly curios. I remember years ago when it was ATI, before AMD bought them out (I think), there were lots of people warning me off ATI, but even then, there were people who swore by them. So, please can we keep any discussion on this as civil as we possibly can manage.

Thanks

Durge Driven · Jan 4, 2020

You right seems like no brainer check here vanilla vs vanilla average over all games (20) tested @4K
Then in drop down menu pick individual games

MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X Review

The factory-overclocked MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X is a large triple-slot, dual-fan design with a completely new cooler that achieves the best temperatures of all Navi cards we've tested so far. Even at its low temperatures, the card runs very quietly, and idle-fan-stop is included, too.

www.techpowerup.com

I would ask about visual quality got a feeling more would say AMD

I have 2nd tower with AMD 3200G with APU and all gmotor 2.0 look better then RTX2080

Stig Bidstrup · Jan 4, 2020

Durge Driven said:
You right seems like no brainer check here vanilla vs vanilla average over all games (20) tested @4K
Then in drop down menu pick individual games

MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X Review

The factory-overclocked MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X is a large triple-slot, dual-fan design with a completely new cooler that achieves the best temperatures of all Navi cards we've tested so far. Even at its low temperatures, the card runs very quietly, and idle-fan-stop is included, too.

www.techpowerup.com

I would ask about visual quality got a feeling more would say AMD

I have 2nd tower with AMD 3200G with APU and all gmotor 2.0 look better then RTX2080

Very useful that test ( Review ) thanks

Emery · Jan 4, 2020

Denis Betty said:
I just took a look at a comparison/hierarchy table on Tom's Hardware and they rate the 5700 XT higher than the 2070 Super... even though the AMD card is around 100 quid cheaper.

5700XT desires 10W more power than the 2070 Super (225W vs. 215W, respectively). 2070 Super will likely have 8% more fps. 8% more fps for a single screen user is not enough to warrant paying 20% more IMHO... might be a different story if you're using VR or triple screens.

So... I think there are only 2 real concerns:

Check whether you have 2 or 3 slots available because if you have only 2 slots, then the 2.5-wide or 3-wide cards aren't going to work for you. The cards only need one motherboard slot, but the overhang & blanking plate is where you get clobbered.
Satisfying whether AMD is okay on your system. I have no recent experience with AMD video cards, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Just make sure all trace of your current nVidia software is removed during your install as that used to cause problems in the past.

FYI - here in the USA, AMD is $361 and nVidia is $500, so closer to a 40% premium for nVidia!

Bob Gnarley · Jan 4, 2020

I have been running a 5700XT for a couple of months now and am very happy with the hardware (I paid the full £409).

Powercolor Radeon RX 5700 XT Red Dragon 8GB GDDR6 PCI-Express Graphics Card

AXRX 5700XT 8GBD6-3DHR/OC, Core Clock: 1650MHz, Boost Clock: 1905MHz, Memory: 8192MB 14000MHz GDDR6, Stream Processors: 2560, DirectX 12 Support, Vulkan Support, RDNA, Freesync 2 HDR support, 3yr War

www.overclockers.co.uk

RF2 = supersampling, level 5 aa, medium post fx, all reflections high, everything else max it gives a solid 75 fps at 6004*1080.

Not so happy with the drivers at the moment though. Every Christmas AMD give their Radeon drivers a big makeover with a new UI and new features as well as new drivers. While most are reporting good things with the new drivers, there are a few of us having issues such as black screens, crashes etc. Nothing new for the Christmas update, and i'm sure all will be fixed soon, but annoying all the same. Also I couldn't find any way to set up triples though that may just be me... or something else that needs fixed.

Am currently using the last 2019 edition driver with no issues at all.

I guess the price difference is down to the added RTX/DLSS hardware. Just depends if that's important to you.

The best models are probably the Sapphire Nitro cards followed by Powercolor. Avoid the blower style cards with the noisy fans and definitely avoid the Asus Tuf model, it's got issues...

Oh, no issues with GTR2 last time I fired it up.

Edited: Spelling!

Durge Driven · Jan 4, 2020

Difference down under is closer to 20% Top 2070Super - 999 vs Taichi X - 799 and Nitro+ 779
779 only gets you the cheapest 2070 Super ............. just 30MHz+ reference and a single fan .......PASS

Pedro Azevedo88 · Jan 4, 2020

I have the same card as you (GTX 1080) and honestly I can't justify an upgrade/change to a 5700XT or a 2070 Super. The gains are small, and for me, less than a 2080 Super doesn't justify the cost.
Do a small OC to the 1080 and you're good to go until the next generation of cards come, which will give you better gains (at the same price point) and future proof your system.

This is just my opinion (and believe me that I already controlled myself many times to not buy a new card

)

Bob Gnarley · Jan 4, 2020

Pedro has it about right to be honest. If I remember right your 1080 is roughly on par with a 2070 non super. It would be a big outlay for small gain. Both companies have new things coming soon, not sure when - haven't been following, but it may be worth sitting on your hands a while longer.

Emery · Jan 4, 2020

Oh, yes, by all means, if you're coming from a GTX 1080, this is not an upgrade you should be considering! At least not unless you've got a buyer lined up for your old card that will pay a price worthwhile to you.

dud · Jan 4, 2020

NVidia still has better drivers IMHO and the cards are more versatile with CUDA et al if you have a use for that.

I had NVidia cards die too often (running 24/7), but the only higher power ATI card I owned lately bit the dust the same way. So I'm no longer even trying to get a card that won't die eventually.

In your case I would stick with the 1080 for now if your system is running great. No reason to go through all the trouble of switching to ATI for a minor gain, in addition to the money of course. Never touch a running system.

Denis Betty · Jan 4, 2020

Thanks gents, for your thoughts and comments. As expected, there were one or two things that hadn't occurred to me. Ray Tracing etc. - although I don't play games that use it and even if I did, I don't think it would work well on my system with a 2070 Super.

Drivers might be a big one though. I don't wanna be messing with my system (like dud says) to get it working or working properly. I just want it to work. Also, I'm not sure about my MOBO. I'm sure it has at least two PCIe slots, but I'm not sure about 3. Would both the new options need a MOBO which has 3 slots? What happens if you wanna run a peripheral in a PCIe slot and also one of those cards?

The hierarchy rankings I referred to in the OP rate the 1080 at 82% of the RX 5700XT at 1920 x 1080, but I'm not sure how that would translate to 5760 x 1080?

MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X Review

The factory-overclocked MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X is a large triple-slot, dual-fan design with a completely new cooler that achieves the best temperatures of all Navi cards we've tested so far. Even at its low temperatures, the card runs very quietly, and idle-fan-stop is included, too.

www.techpowerup.com

If the gains for triples were similar, that's getting on for a 25% increase (in FPS?). Like I said, the 1080 is selling for 250+ on Ebay ATM. I have a buddy who'd give me 200+PP tomorrow. Ebuyer (only site I checked) want 360+PP for the PowerColor RX 5700 XT. So a little over 120 for the upgrade... 170 if I sold to my mate. So if it was a 23% increase in FPS, that wouldn't be so bad IMO. Diminishing returns, I guess. But I don't suppose it would be 23% and I wouldn't be expecting that after what I've read.

I'll be looking to upgrade my monitors at some point in the future, so any card I buy needs to run triples at 1920 x 1080 at 75Hz with some way to stop screen tearing and with minimal input lag. The advice to wait and see what's around the corner seems (somehow) familiar... like I've heard it before somewhere.

I do know where you're coming from though.

BTW are AMD anti-lag, Image sharpening and Fidelity FX actually worth considering or are they just gimmicks?

Anyway, you've convinced me to hold off for now. As you say, it's working and I'm pretty impressed with it ATM. Shame about the massive bezels, but I can live with those.

Emery · Jan 4, 2020

Denis Betty said:
The hierarchy rankings I referred to in the OP rate the 1080 at 82% of the RX 5700XT at 1920 x 1080, but I'm not sure how that would translate to 5760 x 1080?

The rankings generally hold true for triples. I wish a site (RaceDepartment? Hmm?) would do comparative reviews for triple monitors so we could be more sure. By the way, I'm on triples with a GTX 1080 at 5760x1080 resolution; I can run all the current games at 75+ Hz with fields of 15-20 AI, but only by turning down graphic settings and some (rF2, ACC) you have to put up with first laps of 55-60 fps unless you turn the graphic settings down to "Ugly". Night and/or rain is worse.

So, with that in mind... a 20% improvement in fps still won't get you to 75 fps when conditions aren't favorable (first lap/rain/night). That's why I don't upgrade graphics cards unless it's a 50% improvement. At this point, an RTX 2080ti is the only choice for triples IMHO, so that you have some headroom for new sims that might could be more demanding, but with a CPU/motherboard from 2012, then I think I really should be budgeting for a whole new computer so I can take advantage of some other new features. Also crossing my fingers that the RTX 2080ti Super comes soon.

Bob Gnarley · Jan 4, 2020

The big computer show CES2020 is just around the corner (7-10 Jan). Expect an announcement on NVidia's upcoming 3000 series rumoured to be launching first half of 2020. (Edit: latest rumour = August)

I have been running ATI/AMD cards for around ten years now and have had very few driver issues. My last NV card was a 285GTX and I remember having to run Rivatuner to get the AA settings to work in the NV control panel. Have never had to do anything like that with Radeon drivers, though big AMD software releases for gpu's & cpu's can feel like a bit of a beta program sometimes. Usually just a case of roll back to the last working driver and wait for an update.

Some nice features have been added over time such as Relive (live game video capture), inboard overclocking & monitoring support, Freesync etc. Are any of these features absolute must-have deal breakers? No, but they are nice to have.

For instance, image sharpening I only tried recently. I run AC with Content manager and use Sol etc. which looks pretty good with the various filters and whatever applied. Turning on image sharpening seems to work against the filters giving a grainy, less appealing appearance. Whereas, I've always thought the colours in Automobilista look a bit pale and washed out. With IS on the colour's are stronger, less washed out and the image a bit more solid. As i say, not a must have feature but nice to have all the same.

Anti lag is a feature designed for e-sports gamers to reduce input latency where every millisecond counts. Obviously I apply this to the wheel to match my lazer sharp reaction time and give me that winning edge!
BS aside, i can't say i noticed input lag before but i apply it anyway. I need all the help i can get...

To be honest i would have happily gone with NV if they had been willing to sell me 2070 performance minus the RTX/DLSS hardware and a price to reflect this. Just wanted a capable, affordable gpu basically.

BrunoBæ · Jan 5, 2020

Take it for what it is but my monthly IT bible PCGH(PC Games Hardware) has rated ALL the 2070 super cards higher than even the best RX 5700 XT(Asus RX 5700 XT Rog Strix).

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: Their ratings are based on both benchmarks but mainly on a lot of modern games.

pattikins · Jan 5, 2020

Denis Betty said:
The hierarchy rankings I referred to in the OP rate the 1080 at 82% of the RX 5700XT at 1920 x 1080, but I'm not sure how that would translate to 5760 x 1080?

MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X Review

The factory-overclocked MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X is a large triple-slot, dual-fan design with a completely new cooler that achieves the best temperatures of all Navi cards we've tested so far. Even at its low temperatures, the card runs very quietly, and idle-fan-stop is included, too.

www.techpowerup.com

Have you looked in Scan? - I'm also guessing that your warranty for the GTX 1080 is also due to expire - if you want an extra excuse to spend money.

I had a triple monitor setup for about 4/5 years (HD 6870 - AMD Vega 56) and I don't recall any issues setting up a standard or mixed triple monitor setup with AMD - I still pine over my 23"|29"|23"(same height & pixel density) that Nvidia still doesn't offer support for.

Denis Betty · Jan 6, 2020

I just checked my MOBO, it's Asus Z-97P.

Z97-P - Support

www.asus.com

Looks like only one PCIe slot.... unless that's another one 3rd up from the bottom? I don't know what any of that stuff is tbh.

Anyway, just out of interest, would (for example) an RTX 2070 Super card fit and work with this MOBO?

Sorry to be such a dummy.

Pedro Azevedo88 · Jan 6, 2020

Denis Betty said:
I just checked my MOBO, it's Asus Z-97P.

Z97-P - Support

www.asus.com

Looks like only one PCIe slot.... unless that's another one 3rd up from the bottom? I don't know what any of that stuff is tbh.

Anyway, just out of interest, would (for example) an RTX 2070 Super card fit and work with this MOBO?

Sorry to be such a dummy.

2 PCIe slots (only one 3.0)
Yes, you can fit a 2070 there.

pattikins · Jan 6, 2020

Your current GTX 1080, the Nvidia 2070 Super and AMD 5700XT are all pci-e 3 cards. The same applies to the motherboard.

Looking @ the motherboard, your pcie/pci lanes are in the following order:

1 x PCIe x1
1 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (where the primary graphics card is installed)
1 x PCIe x1
1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (second gpu...)
2 x PCI

From my very limited knowledge, PCIe x1 equals one lane. The number of lanes available (that can be handled @ the same time) is generally determined by the cpu/motherboard (in your case 16). The version (i.e., 3.0, 2.0...) denotes the available the bandwidth of each lane. The PCI slots (old tech - used by sound cards etc.) don't share that bandwidth and if you install a peripheral in a PCIe x1 slot it shouldn't effect the available bandwidth so long as it's not running @ the same time - if it is, I think the number of lanes would go from 16 to 8.

Edit:

	PCI-e 1.0	PCI-e 2.x	PCI-e 3.0	PCI-e 4.x
x1	250MB/s	500MB/s	985MB/s	1969MB/s
x4	1000MB/s	2000MB/s	3940MB/s	7876MB/s
x8	2000MB/s	4000MB/s	7880MB/s	15752MB/s
x16	4000MB/s	8000MB/s	15760MB/s	31504MB/s

Bob Gnarley · Jan 6, 2020

Yes, sorry Denis, when they talk about a card being two slot or three slot it only refers to the width (thickness). These cards (XT & Super) only use a single pcie slot but if they have a big chunky cooler they need extra clearance, covering up the slots below.

Only a problem if you wanted to use a pci slot being hidden by a chunky cooler.

Gpu goes in PCIe 3.0x16 usually the top pcie slot.

And don't worry, just because you like sim racing it doesn't mean you have to like computers...

dud · Jan 7, 2020

pattikins said:
Your current GTX 1080, the Nvidia 2070 Super and AMD 5700XT are all pci-e 3 cards. The same applies to the motherboard.

Looking @ the motherboard, your pcie/pci lanes are in the following order:

1 x PCIe x1
1 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (where the primary graphics card is installed)
1 x PCIe x1
1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (second gpu...)
2 x PCI