Setup differences between awd and rwd

[BhZ]

So, as the title says, i'd like to talk about the differences in terms of setup between an awd and and rwd. In particular, i'm driving the honda civic wtcc and i have 2 main problems with this car. First of all, the understeer when accelerating. Now, i know that an awd car will always do that when too much torque is applied, but i wonder if somehow some settings can help me with that. Second, the car is very unstable under braking. I just started playing r3e and it's difficult for me to understand everything thr car is telling me. So, any tips? Please don't link me a guide, i've read them all and i'd like a more complete answer if possible.

 

[UMC 22]

Hmm... would you mind telling us what guides you've read? I doubt you've actually read them all, and there are some great ones out there that would give you a far more complete and detailed answer than you're likely to get in a forum thread. RD has it's very own setup guide, for example, which is excellent and written in plain English that even I can understand. You can find it here. (Yes I linked a guide. So sue me.)

You may also want to check out Mr C's Setup thread. It has a bunch of setups you could check out for WTCC cars to get some ideas of what to tweak. No 2016 cars as yet, though some of the tweaks are probably quite similar.

 

[BhZ]

Hmm... would you mind telling us what guides you've read? I doubt you've actually read them all, and there are some great ones out there that would give you a far more complete and detailed answer than you're likely to get in a forum thread. RD has it's very own setup guide, for example, which is excellent and written in plain English that even I can understand. You can find it here. (Yes I linked a guide. So sue me.)

You may also want to check out Mr C's Setup thread. It has a bunch of setups you could check out for WTCC cars to get some ideas of what to tweak. No 2016 cars as yet, though some of the tweaks are probably quite similar.

I've been on rd for 3 years now. I read them all on rd and many others somewhere else. I know i can change front bump, coast... But i haven't reached the results i was hoping for. A guide is very good to start with but once you want to go a bit more serious, they become quite useless while an advice from an experienced driver can be all you need to understand better the car. As i said, i just started playing r3e and i still have to get used to it. I played mostly ac and if i'm not wrong, it misses an awd racing car, which is why i'm asking. I don't want to seem rude, but i find your comment a bit inappropriate. You can doubt all you want but it would be better if you actually kept it for yourself. You either believe me or not. Any good driver would tell you that the guides miss a lot of details which are essential for a fine tune.

 

[Majuh]

The WTCC cars are FWD, not AWD. You can't avoid understeering while accelerating, so you need to adapt your driving style. Regarding the braking, try moving the brake balance to 65% or even further depending on your fuel load.

 

[BhZ]

The WTCC cars are FWD, not AWD. You can't avoid understeering while accelerating, so you need to adapt your driving style. Regarding the braking, try moving the brake balance to 65% or even further depending on your fuel load.

Yeah sorry, sometimes i confuse the words (english is not my first language ofc). I'll try that. I already touched that setting, but not that much. Any tips about toe? I read somewhere it should help, am i wrong?

 

[UMC 22]

I don't want to seem rude, but i find your comment a bit inappropriate. You can doubt all you want but it would be better if you actually kept it for yourself. You either believe me or not.

Inappropriate how? You asked a question, I answered it in an attempt to help you out and aid you in getting the most from this great sim. In *MY* experience reading a guide has always provided more answers and explanation than I've ever gotten from a forum thread. Sorry if my experience differs from yours, but it does. Maybe try to be a bit less sensitive?

 

[Case_]

In particular, i'm driving the honda civic wtcc and i have 2 main problems with this car. First of all, the understeer when accelerating. Now, i know that an awd car will always do that when too much torque is applied, but i wonder if somehow some settings can help me with that.

I'm far from a setup expert, but it's basically like you said. A lot of it just comes to how you're driving the car - it's really easy to spin the front wheels under acceleration in WTCC cars, they have quite a lot of power, so you have to apply the throttle gradually to not overload the front wheels too much (which gives you understeer). Also playing with the front toe and diff under power helps somewhat.

Second, the car is very unstable under braking. I just started playing r3e and it's difficult for me to understand everything thr car is telling me. So, any tips? Please don't link me a guide, i've read them all and i'd like a more complete answer if possible.

Again, driving style has a significant impact on this. For the car to be more stable under braking, you pretty much never want to lift off completely, apply a bit of throttle even under braking to keep the car balanced. Apart from this, you might want to make the front springs harder and the rear softer (but doing so will in turn create more understeer I believe. Also the brake balance - a lot of people will tell you to move it forward a lot on these cars, like 64 or 65 percent, but I honestly can't drive them like that, I feel like they're much more stable for me around say 56-58. Don't know why that is. But you might want to try this out. Finally, you didn't mention which year you're interested in, but I find that with the 2016 cars, I generally want quite a bit of wing on them to keep them stable, even though I lose a bit of straightline speed. 2014/2015 are more forgiving in this regard.

But again, note that I'm far from being an expert, and I'm also not the fastest guy around here, so take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[BhZ]

I'm far from a setup expert, but it's basically like you said. A lot of it just comes to how you're driving the car - it's really easy to spin the front wheels under acceleration in WTCC cars, they have quite a lot of power, so you have to apply the throttle gradually to not overload the front wheels too much (which gives you understeer). Also playing with the front toe and diff under power helps somewhat.



Again, driving style has a significant impact on this. For the car to be more stable under braking, you pretty much never want to lift off completely, apply a bit of throttle even under braking to keep the car balanced. Apart from this, you might want to make the front springs harder and the rear softer (but doing so will in turn create more understeer I believe. Also the brake balance - a lot of people will tell you to move it forward a lot on these cars, like 64 or 65 percent, but I honestly can't drive them like that, I feel like they're much more stable for me around say 56-58. Don't know why that is. But you might want to try this out. Finally, you didn't mention which year you're interested in, but I find that with the 2016 cars, I generally want quite a bit of wing on them to keep them stable, even though I lose a bit of straightline speed. 2014/2015 are more forgiving in this regard.

But again, note that I'm far from being an expert, and I'm also not the fastest guy around here, so take it all with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the answer. Obviously my driving style counts. I've been working on it and it's always something i focus on. I am using the 2016 because i'm trying to get qualified for the division 1 in the official WTCC competition. Since i have 5 hours on this sim (basically never used) it's a bit more difficult for me to understand what the car is doing. I worked a bit on the ARBs and that really helped a lot. I also stiffened the front spring and softened the rear's. I tried to use the throttle while braking. I didn't find much of a difference there, but it's usefull to have the throttle pressed before i leave the brake to stop the rear from slipping.
Since i'm driving at the Nordschleife, i assume that brake bias has to be a compromise between stability and agility. Understeer is a real problem obviously, so moving the brake bias to the rear should help there, but i also need stability because of the bumpy track.
Toe is still a big problem. I can't notice the difference between the different settings and a long track like the nordschleife really doesn't help understanding if the car is actually faster or i simply drove a "more close to perfection" lap.
Apparently during the qualification the tire temp is stuck at 95°, fuel is stuck at 50 liters and doesn't decrease. Since the tire temp is stable, should i run very aggressive camber? How can i know what's the right value if the temps are fixed?

 

[Case_]

Tyre temps are at 95 most of the time as R3E gives you core temperature, not surface temperature.

But honestly, if you think you can qualify to division 1 of the official WTCC competition, you should probably stop listening to me as I'm nowhere close to your level.

 

[BhZ]

Tyre temps are at 95 most of the time as R3E gives you core temperature, not surface temperature.

But honestly, if you think you can qualify to division 1 of the official WTCC competition, you should probably stop listening to me as I'm most likely nowhere close to your level.

I'm already in division 1 but i'm not in the top 30, which means that if i don't improve, i won't race anyway. Still, you gave me something to work on based on your impressions. It's still better than reading a guide that says the exact same thing as the other 100.
Sadly the people here prefer to talk about problems with the game and their PCs than with the cars. It feels more like an "IT support forum" than a sim forum if you look at the posts.

 

[Case_]

When I look at the posts, I see exactly what I'd expect to see in a PC game forum, but I guess my expectations are different than yours, then.

 

[BhZ]

When I look at the posts, I see exactly what I'd expect to see in a PC game forum, but I guess my expectations are different than yours, then.

This is way worse than a Pc game forum actually. I don't know what forums or what games you saw, but just to name a few: Blizzard's forum have only topics about the game, it's mechanics and gameplays (there's a section for game problems); games without a main forum, like these afterall, have a section on reddit and people talk about everything about the game, from competitive to fast runs, fun facts, builds...Game forums look way different from this. Anyway, this is not the post nor the place to talk about it, so from now on i'll focus on the combo car/track we are discussing about.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Sine the esport competition is hosted by Sector3 your best bet for news/info/discussions/setup talk would be on there forums
https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?forums/eSports_WTCC/

 

[BhZ]

Sine the esport competition is hosted by Sector3 your best bet for news/info/discussions/setup talk would be on there forums
https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?forums/eSports_WTCC/

I assumed that since it was a competition, drivers wouldn't share their "secrets".

 

[Kurupt CDN]

I assumed that since it was a competition, drivers wouldn't share their "secrets".

You may or may not get any tips from the top guys since there are prizes up for grabs and some are on Pro gaming teams, but i am sure someone thats currently faster may help you out........never hurts to ask

 

[BhZ]

You may or may not get any tips from the top guys since there are prizes up for grabs and some are on Pro gaming teams, but i am sure someone thats currently faster may help you out........never hurts to ask

I suppose it doesn't ...Anyway i'm currently 40 in the leaderboard, 9 seconds behind the first guy, which i'm not sure if it's a lot or not considering i have 10 hours on r3e. I will use this season to learn and train because i don't expect to be with the fastest guys so quickly...hopefully the next year, with the 2017 cars (they could fit me better, who knows)i will be more competitive.